"Borrowing" Items

[Vman13x]

Id have to agree on a few more PRs.
Sometimes when something is needed like a hacker, and no pr is on they just get to hack for free. This is just an example there are other things too.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Vman13x

People hate scamming well for one theyve been scammerd, and two the scammer hasnt earned that item which the other person worked hard for.

the player who was scammed becomes a better player from this experience in realizing his mistake. the scammer gets the loot. everyone wins and there is no need for a team of bafoons to moderate trading.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Geno

the player who was scammed becomes a better player from this experience in realizing his mistake. the scammer gets the loot. everyone wins and there is no need for a team of bafoons to moderate trading.

so september 11 should be a good thing because terrorists made their point and people who lost friends and family will learn how precious life is? God your a ****ing *****

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by salesman

I don't think it would hurt to have a few more, to be honest.

Only about 3 of the current PRs (not including squirt) are ever on (not naming anyone). I'd improve quality before quantity personally. If you're afraid of firing them and leaving the server underrepresented, then I'd hire 4 new ones, let them train, and then fire 2-4 of the old ones. Just my opinion though.

Edit: And Zeus...maybe a LITTLE extreme on your interpretation?

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Spikedude

Only about 3 of the current PRs (not including squirt) are ever on (not naming anyone). I'd improve quality before quantity personally. If you're afraid of firing them and leaving the server underrepresented, then I'd hire 4 new ones, let them train, and then fire 2-4 of the old ones. Just my opinion though.

Edit: And Zeus...maybe a LITTLE extreme on your interpretation?

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by papajchris

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

Better. But this is a video game, and I don't think m16s are valued at the same as a real life car.

I disagree with Geno because people aren't playing Graal to "become more knowledgeable about cons!" I think scamming should be legal only because making it illegal is just saying "if you're stupid enough to fall for a scam, contact a PR and then just get scammed somewhere else." It also leaves players thinking they're safe when it's illegal, and makes them think it's unfair when they don't get their items back because a GP wasn't watching.

I agree with Rams' idea, and people saying "NOBODY NEEDS TO TRY GUNS," nobody needs to play Graal either, they do. It's called entertainment, that's what a game is for. It's fun to be able to use other people's weapons every once in a while; give some guns a test drive and make an educated decision on which fits best with you. What's wrong with that?

It'll probably never be implemented though. Too strong of an opposition and too difficult of a system to script.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

The only way you get scammed on Era is if you're an idiot and don't use the trade systems put in place for your own god damn good.

So here's how it'd really go in your scenario:

You save up all your money for years and years and you are finally getting your first [car/gun]. You know about itemtrade and the mall systems. However, you decide instead to trust Honest John who's lurking in a dark alley on the corner of Broadway and Martin Luther King Street. He promises you the car/gun, and he also says he'll throw in a free candy cane. Good god, this surely is the nicest man in the game! You've been admonished by the server (and, if you're asking around - friends and random jackasses) to use the safe itemtrade/mall systems already put in place. But Honest John refuses to use those, claiming he's got a bit of a limp and can't quite make it all the way to the mall.

What's the smart thing to do there? If you actually think trusting Honest John who's refusing to do a safe trade is a good idea, I think Geno might be right. You do need to learn a lesson. Common sense + the pre-existing trade systems should prevent any scamming from happening at all.

As for the lending shenanigans, there's absolutely no reason why the staff should have to deal with lends. It's something that's not supported by any system in place on the server, therefore it should be lend-at-your-own-risk/know-who-your-real-friends-are (hint: they're not on your buddy list) kind of thing.

Besides, that kind of thing is just asking for some biased/corrupt PR to try to abuse it. PR's friend gets a bad trade, begs for him to reverse it. PR does, and then tells everyone "it was a lend, k? the other guy is lying." Or you'll get players claiming a PR watched a "lend" that never really happened, and assuming this staff member cares enough to check, he/she'll waste tons of precious time finding out he's bluffing.

Either make an automated system to allow lending (not worth it at allll in my opinion), or just let people lend at their own risk. We're over concerned with players getting upset here. If you're a ****ing idiot and lend your **** out everywhere, it's your own damn fault if you lose it. We don't need to shove out the bottle and pacifier every time someone cries over a stupid mistake.

Regardless, Geno makes a valid point that's true for both scamming and lending messes: You get burned once, and unless you're extremely stupid/gullible, it won't happen again.

[cbk1994]

I remember when I first got scammed.

Snow resort, good memories .

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

The only way you get scammed on Era is if you're an idiot and don't use the trade systems put in place for your own god damn good.

So here's how it'd really go in your scenario:

You save up all your money for years and years and you are finally getting your first [car/gun]. You know about itemtrade and the mall systems. However, you decide instead to trust Honest John who's lurking in a dark alley on the corner of Broadway and Martin Luther King Street. He promises you the car/gun, and he also says he'll throw in a free candy cane. Good god, this surely is the nicest man in the game! You've been admonished by the server (and, if you're asking around - friends and random jackasses) to use the safe itemtrade/mall systems already put in place. But Honest John refuses to use those, claiming he's got a bit of a limp and can't quite make it all the way to the mall.

What's the smart thing to do there? If you actually think trusting Honest John who's refusing to do a safe trade is a good idea, I think Geno might be right. You do need to learn a lesson. Common sense + the pre-existing trade systems should prevent any scamming from happening at all.

As for the lending shenanigans, there's absolutely no reason why the staff should have to deal with lends. It's something that's not supported by any system in place on the server, therefore it should be lend-at-your-own-risk/know-who-your-real-friends-are (hint: they're not on your buddy list) kind of thing.

Besides, that kind of thing is just asking for some biased/corrupt PR to try to abuse it. PR's friend gets a bad trade, begs for him to reverse it. PR does, and then tells everyone "it was a lend, k? the other guy is lying." Or you'll get players claiming a PR watched a "lend" that never really happening, and assuming this staff member cares enough to check, he/she'll waste tons of precious time finding out he's bluffing.

Either make an automated system to allow lending (not worth it at allll in my opinion), or just let people lend at their own risk. We're over concerned with players getting upset here. If you're a ****ing idiot and lend your **** out everywhere, it's your own damn fault if you lose it. We don't need to shove out the bottle and pacifier every time someone cries over a stupid mistake.

Regardless, Geno makes a valid point that's true for both scamming and lending messes: You get burned once, and unless you're extremely stupid/gullible, it won't happen again.

Well played, I must say sir.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by papajchris

so september 11 should be a good thing because terrorists made their point and people who lost friends and family will learn how precious life is? God your a ****ing *****

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

nice comparison bro.

[papajchris]

Wow somehow all my writing got erased and im not rewriting it all. So i'll summarize it.

My point still stands. September 11 would be a win-win in Geno's eyes.

@MontyPython: Your scenario is inaccurate, as a scammer on Era doesn't look suspicious. He tries to trick a player into dropping their item. He doesn't sit in a dark alley. Instead he may say that hes lagging and his trade window is broken, or that he's an undercover GP. Nonetheles, why should people who scam get the easy way out? They deserve to be punished. People who get scammed are NOT idiots. That type of belief is what makes Era a place for many ego-crazy teenagers.

The only reason people dislike scamming being illegal is because they want to scam to get their money. Or they argue that it's the players fault. But it shouldn't be someones fault for trusting someone, and having scamming be illegal is also a win-win. (Aren't you happy GENO?) Scammmers get jailed and learn not to scam, and the victims get their items back and learn not to trust people so easily!

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

@MontyPython: Your scenario is inaccurate, as a scammer on Era doesn't look suspicious. He tries to trick a player into dropping their item. He doesn't sit in a dark alley. Instead he may say that hes lagging and his trade window is broken, or that he's an undercover GP. Nonetheles, why should people who scam get the easy way out? They deserve to be punished. People who get scammed are NOT idiots. That type of belief is what makes Era a place for many ego-crazy teenagers.

Of course he doesn't sit in a dark alley, but I was trying to relate it back to your scenario which appeared to be ripped from the pages of life ("saved up money for years and finally had enough to buy a car, so you went down to the dealership...dealer takes your money, blah blah blah").

Here's my question to you: A person who's trying to get you to drop your items or says his trade window is broken (which if it only applies to him and not the entire server, makes no sense) doesn't seem suspicious to you? I stand with what I said. Common sense + using the trade windows = failsafe. At the very least, someone with common sense would say "Okay, well, PM me back when your trade window is fixed." And side-note, what's an undercover GP trying to do scamming a player? I can see going undercover to bust a scammer, but what's the GP doing playing the scammer?

I've never scammed a player in my life. I think the practice is despicable. However, that being said, when there's systems already set in place that prevent scamming - scamming shouldn't be an effective strategy at all. Yes, there are people that are gullible, too trusting, etc. But once again, if they actually go against all common sense, all good council, and all logic - they've only got themselves to blame.

What's next, staff protection against accidentally destroyed items?

"Hey man, I dropped my Sten on the beach and I started axing it. Well, I only meant to axe it down to .1, but I accidentally hit space bar again and now it's gone to the place where all other dead inanimate object souls go. Spawn another one for me?"

Or maybe accidental deaths?

"I thought I was in a No-PK zone, so I started to idle. I come back, and now I'm dead. Remove that death for me, please?"

Extreme? Maybe. Point is: You're given the tools you need to succeed, if you don't...it's your own fault. Accept personal responsibility for your actions.

[Frankie]

if the car dealer stole my money I'd knock him out by elbowing him in the face, then kick out all the car windows and finally take my money back and leave. but that's just me. maybe a system should be made on Era where you can challenge the scammer and it brings you both to a boxing ring and you kick the guy's ass for your money/items back. would be legit.

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by Frankie

if the car dealer stole my money I'd knock him out by elbowing him in the face, then kick out all the car windows and finally take my money back and leave. but that's just me. maybe a system should be made on Era where you can challenge the scammer and it brings you both to a boxing ring and you kick the guy's ass for your money/items back. would be legit.

Frankie vs. Inner City Thug who overtly steals large quantities of cash for a living...

[salesman]

Common sense might not always help you against players abusing glitches, modem-tapping into storages, gang/business scamming, etc

Which is why scamming is illegal.