"Borrowing" Items

HarlemBalla · #1 08-21-2009, 11:06 PM

Era has been making it a lot harder for people to scam other individuals, but people are still getting scammed because they have let a "friend" borrow their item who didn't feel like returning it. One way to avoid this is by having a GP come watch your exchange. A lot of people have no patience so they'll either not wait on the GP or if there is not a GP on they'll do it anyway. Instead of GP having to go to a level to watch them do their trade it may be necessary to add a check box or something in the trade window when where the players agree that they are just lending the items.

Frankie · #2 08-21-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarlemBalla

Era has been making it a lot harder for people to scam other individuals, but people are still getting scammed because they have let a "friend" borrow their item who didn't feel like returning it. One way to avoid this is by having a GP come watch your exchange. A lot of people have no patience so they'll either not wait on the GP or if there is not a GP on they'll do it anyway. Instead of GP having to go to a level to watch them do their trade it may be necessary to add a check box or something in the trade window when where the players agree that they are just lending the items.

GPs shouldn't even be involved in these types of situations. there is no need to lend your items out, at all. if you do, you do it at your own risk. it's such a ridiculous concept to tell a GP "hey, I'm letting so and so borrow my gun, make sure he gives it back plz."

CharlieM · #3 08-21-2009, 11:35 PM

ItsIOta rediculous that scamming is illegal someone can admit to it and people have proof and the PR decide it is legal

cbk1994 · #4 08-22-2009, 12:38 AM

Scamming is still illegal, anyone that says otherwise is probably trying to scam you.

GPs will watch lending trades, but only temporary, and short ones. The reason this is required is because whenever someone is banned or reset, they claim that virtually every one of their items is someone else's, when they're usually just trying to get the items to their friends.

CharlieM · #5 08-22-2009, 12:59 AM

Then do it for that casenot ones hat are players truly getig scammed...andthe way the PR act it is

cbk1994 · #6 08-22-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Then do it for that casenot ones hat are players truly getig scammed...andthe way the PR act it is

...what? I can't tell who or what part you're replying to.

Frankie · #7 08-22-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Scamming is still illegal, anyone that says otherwise is probably trying to scam you.

GPs will watch lending trades, but only temporary, and short ones. The reason this is required is because whenever someone is banned or reset, they claim that virtually every one of their items is someone else's, when they're usually just trying to get the items to their friends.

scamming is illegal but since when was keeping an item someone gave you considered scamming? lol.

cbk1994 · #8 08-22-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

scamming is illegal but since when was keeping an item someone gave you considered scamming? lol.

I don't think I said it was.

Frankie · #9 08-22-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I don't think I said it was.

so why would GPs watch these "borrows" to make sure the person doesn't "scam" the other person.

papajchris · #10 08-22-2009, 03:55 AM

borrowing an item is different than giving an item. When you are giving someone an item your not expecting it back. When you allow someone to borrow an item, your expecting to get it back

DarkRenji · #11 08-22-2009, 04:24 AM

dont trust anyone on era, or you will be sorry!

papajchris · #12 08-22-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

dont trust anyone on era, or you will be sorry!

You betta give my glock back!

Frankie · #13 08-22-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris

borrowing an item is different than giving an item. When you are giving someone an item your not expecting it back. When you allow someone to borrow an item, your expecting to get it back

well thank you captain obvious. my point is, lending items should be at your own risk because if the person doesn't give the item back, I really don't see it as scamming because it was your own fault you lent the item out.

CharlieM · #14 08-22-2009, 05:29 AM

Okay Frankie, will you lend me all your stuff I promise I will give it back.

DarkRenji · #15 08-22-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

well thank you captain obvious. my point is, lending items should be at your own risk because if the person doesn't give the item back, I really don't see it as scamming because it was your own fault you lent the item out.

Ok so if someone pretends to be your friend for months, and then you decent to trust him with a item, its your fault for getting scammed?

Frankie · #16 08-22-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

Ok so if someone pretends to be your friend for months, and then you decent to trust him with a item, its your fault for getting scammed?

yes. it's your choice to trust them. it's not like you're automatically obligated to lend someone your items just because they were your friend on an online game for a few months.

I always lent my **** out to friends. fortunately my friends weren't fake douche bags. tough luck for those who aren't so fortunate, but people suck and will **** you over. not just in games either. lesson learned kids.

Vulcan · #17 08-22-2009, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

I always lent my **** out to friends. fortunately my friends weren't fake douche bags. tough luck for those who aren't so fortunate, but people suck and will **** you over. not just in games either. lesson learned kids.

Hey Frankie. Can I borrow your uzi?

Sinkler · #18 08-22-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

yes. it's your choice to trust them. it's not like you're automatically obligated to lend someone your items just because they were your friend on an online game for a few months.

I always lent my **** out to friends. fortunately my friends weren't fake douche bags. tough luck for those who aren't so fortunate, but people suck and will **** you over. not just in games either. lesson learned kids.

Still Frankie, this game is targeted to be played for fun and not to be upset that someone scammed your items. This isn't a game where we're all supposed to feel upset when we play it since we were scammed. It's unethical and not needed. People lending have the right to and a PR watching will insure its safety. There's nothing wrong with that.

Frankie · #19 08-22-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinkler

Still Frankie, this game is targeted to be played for fun and not to be upset that someone scammed your items. This isn't a game where we're all supposed to feel upset when we play it since we were scammed. It's unethical and not needed. People lending have the right to and a PR watching will insure its safety. There's nothing wrong with that.

the possible outcomes of allowing supervised borrowing just isn't worth it. there are still idiots that will take another player's item and trade it off to other people. then the GP has to dig through logs to find that item. a huge waste of time. all because of something stupid.

Nataxo · #20 08-22-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

GPs shouldn't even be involved in these types of situations. there is no need to lend your items out, at all. if you do, you do it at your own risk. it's such a ridiculous concept to tell a GP "hey, I'm letting so and so borrow my gun, make sure he gives it back plz."

I agree. Couldn't have sed it better.

death_striker · #21 08-22-2009, 07:37 AM

I personaly think that scamming should be legal still

HarlemBalla · #22 08-22-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

my point is, lending items should be at your own risk

So, players should feel discomfort in letting a friend borrow an item? Nothing should be done to make players feel safer when lending an item to someone?

MY point being, I think something needs to be done to make lending weapons an easier process for players.

Sinkler · #23 08-22-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

the possible outcomes of allowing supervised borrowing just isn't worth it. there are still idiots that will take another player's item and trade it off to other people. then the GP has to dig through logs to find that item. a huge waste of time. all because of something stupid.

But the Player Relations job is: help players who don't know Era well enough, enforce the rules (which includes reversing trades and looking through logs), and make sure that society on Era is stable.

You say that it's not worth it, but in all honesty, it's to make Era a better, more enjoyable place as well as it make it noob friendly.

cbk1994 · #24 08-22-2009, 08:31 AM

What exactly are you guys arguing? I see like three points trying to be made.

HarlemBalla · #25 08-22-2009, 08:42 AM

I started this thread to propose an idea for making borrowing trades easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarlemBalla

Instead of GP having to go to a level to watch them do their trade it may be necessary to add a check box or something in the trade window when where the players agree that they are just lending the items.

If not that, maybe a lending room in the Graal Police Headquarters where a player can lend an item to another player for a set time. These are just two suggestions that could make "getting the story" properly if a lending trade does go wrong.

jorollychu · #26 08-22-2009, 10:19 AM

i gave mystic my gatling gun a while ago and he lets me use it and every time he does i pretend im not gonna give it back and he cries.

Pelikano · #27 08-22-2009, 11:08 AM

GPs don't exist!

Vman13x · #28 08-22-2009, 02:48 PM

I agree with what vin said, make the lending system so people can put a set time, like say someone wants to lend dual deagles to a friend for 30 minutes, after that time is up the deagles automatically get put on the owners account, and if the person logs the item returns back automatically.

Pelikano · #29 08-22-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman13x

I agree with what vin said, make the lending system so people can put a set time, like say someone wants to lend dual deagles to a friend for 30 minutes, after that time is up the deagles automatically get put on the owners account, and if the person logs the item returns back automatically.

Some people here have to realise that Era is not Disney Land

Nataxo · #30 08-22-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman13x

I agree with what vin said, make the lending system so people can put a set time, like say someone wants to lend dual deagles to a friend for 30 minutes, after that time is up the deagles automatically get put on the owners account, and if the person logs the item returns back automatically.

runescape :P

but its a good idea.

Venom_Fish · #31 08-22-2009, 05:45 PM

You people are all over the place. Lets rack this up into a clear, concise argument.

Status Quo: Scamming is Illegal.
No one seems to be arguing an affirmative meaning to legalize scamming (except one guy who really didn't have much to say other than that).

So the argument is to what extent that the PRs should enforce the illegal scamming.
(Thats where we're at) Now stay the heck on topic.

My opinion, if scamming is in fact illegal, GPs should enforce that to the utmost extent. If a player says he scams another, that is a confession or something that should be looked into. Just like if you said you killed someone who is deceased, you're a suspect.

Seeing as the GPs are the Judge, Jury, and Executioners... they should act rationally and using LOGIC (dying concept).

On to lending, scamming is ILLEGAL... meaning if a player is borrowing an item and the borrower tries to run with it, that is a S C A M.

Demanding a substantial amount of proof is not DOABLE because players have little to no resources to amount to that standard of proof. PMs are private, so they can be altered... players hardly talking in-between trades, most often you have to log a specific person's chat (don't know if that changed). How can they prove it was a lend if most of that is not submittable? You can't say don't lend, or its stupidity or anything of that nature. Some people have kind hearts, and some are vile and take advantage of those kind-hearted. The Law is supposed to protect the good, and punish the bad. (Idea of law on a kindergarten-level). Therefore you're going to have to find a way to allow lend trades, without all this hassle.

A System like Vin suggested, is appropriate. (Not bothering responding to the other random inputs). Although player logging off or not should be an option, meaning say check if player logs on/off during time. So the item doesn't keep returning if they r.c or something. The time-limit is enough.

Vman13x · #32 08-22-2009, 05:57 PM

Well said.

sam_is_me · #33 08-22-2009, 07:31 PM

That would be a pretty cool system. Is it doable?

Vman13x · #34 08-22-2009, 08:04 PM

Ya it can be done.

Pelikano · #35 08-22-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman13x

Ya it can be done.

How do you know?

salesman · #36 08-22-2009, 08:29 PM

As far as a lending system goes, it's not going to happen with our current item system. Right now, once a player logs off, the only way to remove items from them is via RC. We cannot remove items from an offline player by script, which obviously would cause problems with a lending system. I know there a ways around it, but they would be very sloppy and not worth the trouble/risks. Players should to stick to the lending rules for now.

In regards to scamming in general, yes, we will reverse a scam if we can prove that one did occur -- that will not change. In order to ensure complete safety of your items, you should use always use the trade window, and contact a GP before lending. If someone is being impatient and insists on lending without a GP present, it is most-likely a scam.

Pelikano · #37 08-22-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

As far as a lending system goes, it's not going to happen with our current item system. Right now, once a player logs off, the only way to remove items from them is via RC. We cannot remove items from an offline player by script, which obviously would cause problems with a lending system. I know there a ways around it, but they would be very sloppy and not worth the trouble/risks. Players should to stick to the lending rules for now.

In regards to scamming in general, yes, we will reverse a scam if we can prove that one did occur -- that will not change. In order to ensure complete safety of your items, you should use always use the trade window, and contact a GP before lending. If someone is being impatient and insists on lending without a GP present, it is most-likely a scam.

WTF how the **** are items saved? oO

screen_name · #38 08-22-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelikano

How do you know?

Anything can be done with GScript!!! Anyways, sure it could be in a couple of ways;

1. Have tradeable weapons join a lending class
2. timestamp the trade, check timestamp against lending length which could be defined by the lender
3. when time is up, return the item to the lender, delete it from the lendee
4. have various checks to eliminate exploiting the system
>> automatically give the lender the item when time is up and remove from lendee (if lendee remains online)
>> if the lendee goes offline (isn't there an event if someone disconnects?) then delete the item when they connect again
>> have a DBNPC that controls this instead of weapon scripts (best way?)
>> lendee can not drop, trade, or sell lended item
5. other related stuff (perhaps a "renting" fee)

Stryke · #39 08-22-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelikano

WTF how the **** are items saved? oO

clientr vars. lol

sam_is_me · #40 08-22-2009, 08:52 PM

You can't change those in a script?