The next Graal client

[cbk1994]

It should have been released months ago. There is no reason to keep us waiting this long for updates that we've been needing, such as Intel support for Mac, external windows, clientside callstack, and all the other features.

Focus more on "sets" of updates so that you can actually finish them. You've been too busy adding more and more new features that you haven't released the "old" features yet.

Stop aiming for Graal v6 and aim for Graal v5.2.

[Crow]

I agree!

[DustyPorViva]

I agree. I don't see the need of only releasing the next big update instead of just giving the client minor updates that are really needed.

[Tigairius]

Well, the actual windows client isn't ready yet for the new version and there are quite a few other bugs still.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Well, the actual windows client isn't ready yet for the new version and there are quite a few other bugs still.

My latest build of the Mac Intel 64-bit client is actually not too bad, it has a few minor bugs but nothing that stops gameplay.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Skyld

My latest build of the Mac Intel 64-bit client is actually not too bad, it has a few minor bugs but nothing that stops gameplay.

Yea, the mac and linux ones are pretty up-to-date and ready to go. Except I don't think obj.trigger() is working in those yet (?) that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

Biggest problem is the windows client since that's what most graal users use.

[Crono]

Fix external windows in v5.2 to not use the ugly skins, fix the positioning problems, and fix how it defaults the crappy scripted playerlist then release it.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crono

crappy scripted playerlist

Actually, I plan to rescript the playerlist with Rage from UN to make it more friendly for people to use and more welcoming with the new client.

Things I would like to add in the new playerlist (please note that none of this has been approved by Stefan, and these are just my ideas):

• Ability to embed YouTube videos in PMs (will be able to be disabled with an option).
• Collapsing/Expanding groups (like buddies, guilds, etc).
• Creating your own groups (instead of only having default: Staff, Buddies, Guild, Players)
• Smoother UI including buttons for easy hyperlinking and adding smilies for PMs, etc.
• Resizable PM windows (meaning you can click & drag that space in between the message & the text edit area and move it up and down to resize the PM... not sure how well I explained it).
• Cleaner skin & smoother look
• Other UI improvements.

Feel free to make a new thread outlining improvements you'd like to see in the new playerlist if you have some ideas.

All in all, once it's been rescripted, it should actually be nicer than the current external playerlist in the current version.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Actually, I plan to rescript the playerlist with Rage from UN to make it more friendly for people to use and more welcoming with the new client.

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

[Codein]

Originally Posted by Crono

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

Agreed.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crono

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

That would be ideal, actually, because it would be easier to provide updates.

The problem with their argument for scripted tools is that, while they may be easier to update, and work on all platforms, they come nowhere near to the quality of the external tools. There's nothing wrong with stuff being scripted into GS2 as long as no quality is lost.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Things I would like to add in the new playerlist (please note that none of this has been approved by Stefan, and these are just my ideas):

• Ability to embed YouTube videos in PMs (will be able to be disabled with an option).
  ...
• Smoother UI including buttons for easy hyperlinking and adding smilies for PMs, etc.

Feel free to make a new thread outlining improvements you'd like to see in the new playerlist if you have some ideas.

All in all, once it's been rescripted, it should actually be nicer than the current external playerlist in the current version.

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

I agree with that, but I think that's just bad implementation. There is nothing wrong with adding features, but they could be better organized, rather then placed in a clutter (see Microsoft's latest "Ribbon" interface for an example of how NOT to do it).

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

Oh, I agree completely. Like I said, I don't even have Stefan's permission to do any of this yet either.

[_Zelph]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

Skyld, that playerlist hasn't been public for like a year now. It has changed a lot since you last saw it.

Besides, it'd be a barebone version suitable for all servers.

[trimaster]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Actually, I plan to rescript the playerlist with Rage from UN to make it more friendly for people to use and more welcoming with the new client.

Things I would like to add in the new playerlist (please note that none of this has been approved by Stefan, and these are just my ideas):

• Ability to embed YouTube videos in PMs (will be able to be disabled with an option).
• Collapsing/Expanding groups (like buddies, guilds, etc).
• Creating your own groups (instead of only having default: Staff, Buddies, Guild, Players)
• Smoother UI including buttons for easy hyperlinking and adding smilies for PMs, etc.
• Resizable PM windows (meaning you can click & drag that space in between the message & the text edit area and move it up and down to resize the PM... not sure how well I explained it).
• Cleaner skin & smoother look
• Other UI improvements.

Feel free to make a new thread outlining improvements you'd like to see in the new playerlist if you have some ideas.

All in all, once it's been rescripted, it should actually be nicer than the current external playerlist in the current version.

Sounds pretty much like Rage's GIM (Graal Instant Messenger)

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by trimaster

Sounds pretty much like Rage's GIM (Graal Instant Messenger)

That's probably why he mentioned Rage in the very first line, lol.

[trimaster]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

That's probably why he mentioned Rage in the very first line, lol.

Probably lol

[_Zelph]

Originally Posted by trimaster

Sounds pretty much like Rage's GIM (Graal Instant Messenger)

I'm still gonna try to get this out after remaking/optimizing it (Hopefully this late summer/early fall while I have time). It's not an abandoned project or anything.

[trimaster]

Originally Posted by _Zelph

I'm still gonna try to get this out after remaking/optimizing it (Hopefully this late summer/early fall while I have time). It's not an abandoned project or anything.

Oh ok. It's glad to know that you're still going to finish it because that system is just too sexy to not be finished

[Luda]

editor with layers pls

[James]

Originally Posted by Luda

editor with layers pls

the newworld editor had support for layers, i still don't understand why it has not been made available.

[DustyPorViva]

If external windows are a problem, I'd rather him put them off until later and just update the current client with some of the smaller additions he has made to the new one.

[DustyPorViva]

Newworld editor didn't have support for layers. It had some pseudo-support. You designated a background tile and the tileset had transparency. It filled the transparent bits of tiles with the background tile. Only one background tile per level, so it wasn't very flexible.

[James]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Newworld editor didn't have support for layers. It had some pseudo-support. You designated a background tile and the tileset had transparency. It filled the transparent bits of tiles with the background tile. Only one background tile per level, so it wasn't very flexible.

Really? I swear it had some kind of layering support. Regardless, Graal has been around too damn long. We should have had tile layering years ago.

[Angel_Light]

I saw a pic of a modded Gonstruct editor using layers although I acually never found the executable.

[zokemon]

If the external window bugs were fixed, I would have had the scripted level editor that uses external windows finished long ago.

[Admins]

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9), input, particle engine, playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows, new Flash support. That means a lot of testing, and we are currently focusing on mobile platforms which is slowing down the development of the windows version right now. It's making good progress though. The old playerlist was actually not that powerful, but easy to use. The new scripted playerlist will definitely be better, and thanks to the scripting it is easier to modify and extend so you will not need to wait 2 years for an update again. The same can be said about the scripted RC, staff can expand the functionality.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Stefan

playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows

please don't.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

Too late. The beta clients have been doing this for a long time now. Options window and profiles are just as functional though, and the scripted playerlist will be receiving an overhaul.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

The current linux client has scripted playerlist, options and profiles and so does the windows client to an extent if you enable the scripted playerlist.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by cyan3

The current linux client has scripted playerlist, options and profiles and so does the windows client to an extent if you enable the scripted playerlist.

yes I know that.

but it seems like Stefan isn't even giving us a choice now with the scripted player list. I can't stand that one.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Frankie

yes I know that.

but it seems like Stefan isn't even giving us a choice now with the scripted player list. I can't stand that one.

That's because of how it's scripted, not because it was scripted. It'll get fixed, I agree with you, trust me.

[Rapidwolve]

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

I agree, please don't. I really wouldn't like the look. External windows are better.

[Cubes]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9), input, particle engine, playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows, new Flash support. That means a lot of testing, and we are currently focusing on mobile platforms which is slowing down the development of the windows version right now. It's making good progress though. The old playerlist was actually not that powerful, but easy to use. The new scripted playerlist will definitely be better, and thanks to the scripting it is easier to modify and extend so you will not need to wait 2 years for an update again. The same can be said about the scripted RC, staff can expand the functionality.

Any plans for the Android OS, I want to be able to play on a G1 :[

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9)

A little behind on that one, aren't you? (Not suggesting going up to DX10 or 11, because those are only on Vista and 7 and I doubt they have much, if any, more support for 2D graphics than DX9)

I'd like to see a more fine grained, built in updating service in the client so that we don't have to until some big new client version to get bug fixes and quick updates. So that you can do small, incremental patches very often. It's not even particularly difficult to achieve, coding-wise.

Pretty much every online game I've ever played does this - they make small updates regularly, weekly even (in some cases). I understand it taking three years to get done with all the changes going into v6, what I don't understand is why you have wait until it's all done before releasing updates (especially the bug fixes).

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by coreys

A little behind on that one, aren't you? (Not suggesting going up to DX10 or 11, because those are only on Vista and 7 and I doubt they have much, if any, more support for 2D graphics than DX9)

I'd like to see a more fine grained, built in updating service in the client so that we don't have to until some big new client version to get bug fixes and quick updates. So that you can do small, incremental patches very often. It's not even particularly difficult to achieve, coding-wise.

Pretty much every online game I've ever played does this - they make small updates regularly, weekly even (in some cases). I understand it taking three years to get done with all the changes going into v6, what I don't understand is why you have wait until it's all done before releasing updates (especially the bug fixes).

The update process has nothing to do with why we're waiting for big updates. Updating the client earlier was as easy as going to the downloads package and clicking update(as far as I remember, I could be wrong...). I'm not sure why he ditched micro-updates, but I hate it so much. We shouldn't have to wait years just to get small bug fixes.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I'm not sure why he ditched micro-updates, but I hate it so much. We shouldn't have to wait years just to get small bug fixes.

Well, ideally, for him it should be as simple as compiling a new binary, testing it out, and hitting a button (metaphorically) to upload it to an update server; then when someone logs into the client it would automatically update. Not that it has to work this way, it just should.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by coreys

Well, ideally, for him it should be as simple as compiling a new binary, testing it out, and hitting a button (metaphorically) to upload it to an update server; then when someone logs into the client it would automatically update. Not that it has to work this way, it just should.

I think the rumor was he got tired of compiling the smaller updates. I'm not sure of the real reason, if that's not.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9), input, particle engine, playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows, new Flash support. That means a lot of testing, and we are currently focusing on mobile platforms which is slowing down the development of the windows version right now. It's making good progress though. The old playerlist was actually not that powerful, but easy to use. The new scripted playerlist will definitely be better, and thanks to the scripting it is easier to modify and extend so you will not need to wait 2 years for an update again. The same can be said about the scripted RC, staff can expand the functionality.

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the dedicated get the worst treatment on this development platform