Log mass messages

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

It's not a terrible idea as long as the logs are only accessible by a trusted few (probably not even playerworld staff, PWA or higher).

Logs can be read by GPs and many other staff, actually. Keep in mind these are only mass PM logs, not PM logs.

Only ever access logs if there's an actual complaint. Don't read them at your leisure.

This much is obvious, but is just a responsibility of the staff team. No harm would be done by them reading mass messages, anyway.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

And don't say it's impossible since I'm aware of a MMORPG that supposedly has 10 million + players and logs everything a player says whether in private or public for 6+ months.

Yes, and their infrastructure is incredible. Graal Servers, on the other hand, are hosted in a Linux Vserver which is hosted on a server hosting multiple vservers..... resources are much more limited.

[DustyPorViva]

I don't understand this whole privacy and "must be accessed only by trusted admins"... they're mass PMs. All privacy went out the window when you decided to highlight all the players on the server and send a message to them.

I don't see size being that much of an issue. I'm sure Stefan could manage to have it clip off older parts of the log after a certain size(10mb?). Add that with staff keeping it organized just like RC logs and such, and I don't see the problem.

Not to mention size would only be a problem on the higher playercount servers. Other servers probably don't even get that much action in terms of masses to even worry about it.

[Liberated]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Wouldn't this be ridiculously huge even for one day?

Also, this seems like a negative for player privacy.

since when are masses private?

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

And what about when you're trying to find a mass message that they avoided by doing something like U$D or U.SD? What about when someone is harassing someone else?

Then we put those as keywords. Yes, every single word possible for the words "USD". The fact that other games do this, like RuneScape or Habbo Hotel. Also, If they find a way to actually bypass the keyword system, that does not mean a player can't report that mass message. Yuo guys should implant the system secretly.

[fowlplay4]

IMO, you gave up your privacy when you used Graal as a medium of passing messages to each other.

Hope to see it implemented, perhaps only logging the mass on the specified keywords?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

IMO, you gave up your privacy when you used Graal as a medium of passing messages to each other.

I kind of agree here. If you really want privacy you should use an instant messenger or something... and even then you might not have the privacy you imagine because of hacking and such. But I play games where admins can read just about every sort of communication, from local to private, and even players have skills that can listen in on private messages. You know what? No one complains because it's just a matter of accepting the fact that it's not a private medium. And yes, their staff is run by volunteers, that were once players(however they are anonymous, and go through very long training sequence, and give up their actual player character).

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Then we put those as keywords. Yes, every single word possible for the words "USD". The fact that other games do this, like RuneScape or Habbo Hotel. Also, If they find a way to actually bypass the keyword system, that does not mean a player can't report that mass message. Yuo guys should implant the system secretly.

And what about harassment? There is absolutely no benefit to only logging certain masses. There will always be the few mass messages that are missed and cause trouble. I bet you anything other games like RuneScape or Habbo Hotel log every single message you send or thing you say.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Player privacy? They're massing it out to the entire server. I'd agree if we were talking about just player PMs, but a public mass is not private.

EDIT: There is no benefit to just logging certain masses from what I can see; file size is not an issue.

Well I know there will be certain gp's who will jail you after looking through the logs to see you used a couple cuss words 12 hours before.

Maybe I meant that there will be a 24/7 watch on mass messages now which seems really inappropriate from a players standpoint.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Well I know there will be certain gp's who will jail you after looking through the logs to see you used a couple cuss words 12 hours before.

Maybe I meant that there will be a 24/7 watch on mass messages now which seems really inappropriate from a players standpoint.

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

Graal's communication is not private. No servers log PMs, but there is no guarantee that Stefan doesn't log them somewhere. Mass PMs are already logged on Era, but in a way that is imperfect. In addition to that, we have a system that automatically checks for certain keywords in masses. The chat of certain players is logged, and we monitor the chat of all players for certain keywords.

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

[Crono]

Big brother is watching.

The only people supporting it and how it should work are not even players. It's pretty pathetic how low the quality of GP's has gone, to the point where everything has to be automated. It's completely killed the fun of the game, from ingame censors to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN.

Logs of any kind should only be accessable by a select few.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

If that's the case, then I could imagine that mass messages can be made where they will send to an rc no matter what (granted that the rc has mass messages enabled). Again, it would be ridiculously huge to log pm's 24/7, unless you want to manually wipe it every day..

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

Yes, I realize that. I just do not like the idea of being watched over 24/7 since GP's these days will jail you whether the report is unwarranted or not. (Sup UN).

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

Graal's communication is not private. No servers log PMs, but there is no guarantee that Stefan doesn't log them somewhere. Mass PMs are already logged on Era, but in a way that is imperfect. In addition to that, we have a system that automatically checks for certain keywords in masses. The chat of certain players is logged, and we monitor the chat of all players for certain keywords.

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

Thats were GP's come in to take action against that. Remember, where not only relying on this system, but we rely on GP's to handle the other issues that may not be logged. Players can also report harmful mass-messages, and we can also put a couple of "Curse" words as keywords.

[Bell]

Classic for years has had mass message logs. They were accessible to the admins and GP's only. It really wasn't a big deal and was only used as a tool to help in policing the server. Obviously if someone wants to mass something crude, they are going to deselect any GP's online so blaming them for not paying attention is really not always the case. It gave a GP the ability to go back and check logs if someone was reported doing something they shouldn't.

Later on foul language logs were added since Classic has been against filters also from the beginning of time. Those were also only accessible to the GP's and Admins. Usually only the worst of the worst were ever jailed for something found in hindsight but a warning was issued to clean it up or there would be consequences first.

The only reason file size is really an issue is due to how long it takes to download the file to read it. Personally I don't think its a huge deal to rename it every so often to keep it to a reasonable size. I would love to see a auto logging as with rc logs or npc logs. Its kind of annoying to have someone accused of sending bad masses only to find out there is no way to confirm they were ever sent.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crono

The only people supporting it and how it should work are not even players. It's pretty pathetic how low the quality of GP's has gone, to the point where everything has to be automated.

We're not asking for automation, simply logs. If player xyz claims that player abc is harassing him, how can we check that?

It's completely killed the fun of the game, from ingame censors to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN.

If the ability not to say **** all you want is killing the game for you, then something is seriously ****ed up.

Logs of any kind should only be accessable by a select few.

Yes, like the police whose job it is to reverse scams, monitor trades, and watch for rule-breakers and harassers.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

If that's the case, then I could imagine that mass messages can be made where they will send to an rc no matter what (granted that the rc has mass messages enabled). Again, it would be ridiculously huge to log pm's 24/7, unless you want to manually wipe it every day..

Where are you pulling this statistic from? I already said that we already log masses on Era, and that it is absolutely not ridiculously huge. I guarantee you our item log, which is stored in one place, grows FAR faster than any mass log would.

Yes, I realize that. I just do not like the idea of being watched over 24/7 since GP's these days will jail you whether the report is unwarranted or not. (Sup UN).

I can't control Unholy Nation. If they choose to look through masses for the wrong reasons, that's fine. You should try to get their rules changed, in that case.

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Thats were GP's come in to take action against that. Remember, where not only relying on this system, but we rely on GP's to handle the other issues that may not be logged. Players can also report harmful mass-messages, and we can also put a couple of "Curse" words as keywords.

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?