"Borrowing" Items

[Venom_Fish]

You people are all over the place. Lets rack this up into a clear, concise argument.

Status Quo: Scamming is Illegal.
No one seems to be arguing an affirmative meaning to legalize scamming (except one guy who really didn't have much to say other than that).

So the argument is to what extent that the PRs should enforce the illegal scamming.
(Thats where we're at) Now stay the heck on topic.

My opinion, if scamming is in fact illegal, GPs should enforce that to the utmost extent. If a player says he scams another, that is a confession or something that should be looked into. Just like if you said you killed someone who is deceased, you're a suspect.

Seeing as the GPs are the Judge, Jury, and Executioners... they should act rationally and using LOGIC (dying concept).

On to lending, scamming is ILLEGAL... meaning if a player is borrowing an item and the borrower tries to run with it, that is a S C A M.

Demanding a substantial amount of proof is not DOABLE because players have little to no resources to amount to that standard of proof. PMs are private, so they can be altered... players hardly talking in-between trades, most often you have to log a specific person's chat (don't know if that changed). How can they prove it was a lend if most of that is not submittable? You can't say don't lend, or its stupidity or anything of that nature. Some people have kind hearts, and some are vile and take advantage of those kind-hearted. The Law is supposed to protect the good, and punish the bad. (Idea of law on a kindergarten-level). Therefore you're going to have to find a way to allow lend trades, without all this hassle.

A System like Vin suggested, is appropriate. (Not bothering responding to the other random inputs). Although player logging off or not should be an option, meaning say check if player logs on/off during time. So the item doesn't keep returning if they r.c or something. The time-limit is enough.

[Vman13x]

Well said.

[sam_is_me]

That would be a pretty cool system. Is it doable?

[Vman13x]

Ya it can be done.

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by Vman13x

Ya it can be done.

How do you know?

[salesman]

As far as a lending system goes, it's not going to happen with our current item system. Right now, once a player logs off, the only way to remove items from them is via RC. We cannot remove items from an offline player by script, which obviously would cause problems with a lending system. I know there a ways around it, but they would be very sloppy and not worth the trouble/risks. Players should to stick to the lending rules for now.

In regards to scamming in general, yes, we will reverse a scam if we can prove that one did occur -- that will not change. In order to ensure complete safety of your items, you should use always use the trade window, and contact a GP before lending. If someone is being impatient and insists on lending without a GP present, it is most-likely a scam.

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by salesman

As far as a lending system goes, it's not going to happen with our current item system. Right now, once a player logs off, the only way to remove items from them is via RC. We cannot remove items from an offline player by script, which obviously would cause problems with a lending system. I know there a ways around it, but they would be very sloppy and not worth the trouble/risks. Players should to stick to the lending rules for now.

In regards to scamming in general, yes, we will reverse a scam if we can prove that one did occur -- that will not change. In order to ensure complete safety of your items, you should use always use the trade window, and contact a GP before lending. If someone is being impatient and insists on lending without a GP present, it is most-likely a scam.

WTF how the **** are items saved? oO

[screen_name]

Originally Posted by Pelikano

How do you know?

Anything can be done with GScript!!! Anyways, sure it could be in a couple of ways;

1. Have tradeable weapons join a lending class
2. timestamp the trade, check timestamp against lending length which could be defined by the lender
3. when time is up, return the item to the lender, delete it from the lendee
4. have various checks to eliminate exploiting the system
>> automatically give the lender the item when time is up and remove from lendee (if lendee remains online)
>> if the lendee goes offline (isn't there an event if someone disconnects?) then delete the item when they connect again
>> have a DBNPC that controls this instead of weapon scripts (best way?)
>> lendee can not drop, trade, or sell lended item
5. other related stuff (perhaps a "renting" fee)

[Stryke]

Originally Posted by Pelikano

WTF how the **** are items saved? oO

clientr vars. lol

[sam_is_me]

You can't change those in a script?

[CharlieM]

So if someone can prove the other party agreed to a lend, and staff have come to a conclusion, and someone submits the information right after, then the person will get there things back?

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

So if someone can prove the other party agreed to a lend, and staff have come to a conclusion, and someone submits the information right after, then the person will get there things back?

I don't get what your asking? If you are able to provide proof (snap shots, record the trade, chat logs provided by staff, etc..) that it was a lend staff will return the item.

[CharlieM]

Well, I know someone that has proof, and told staff they have proof, and the PR still decided that it was a regular old trade. So they are making a video proving that it was agreed upon as a lend between the two parties

[papajchris]

Well when did it happen? often when people came to me saying they got scammed and staff did nothing the scam occured before it was illegal. If you have legit proof, definitly show it to the gp's and if it's legit they will act on it. Also, i think it depends on how long it took you to report it being stolen. If your friend gave the item to someone like 3 months ago, then there is no way to reverse ALL those trades. In this case the staff may or may not just take items/money from the scammer and refund you that way.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by screen_name

Anything can be done with GScript!!! Anyways, sure it could be in a couple of ways;

1. Have tradeable weapons join a lending class
2. timestamp the trade, check timestamp against lending length which could be defined by the lender
3. when time is up, return the item to the lender, delete it from the lendee
4. have various checks to eliminate exploiting the system
>> automatically give the lender the item when time is up and remove from lendee (if lendee remains online)
>> if the lendee goes offline (isn't there an event if someone disconnects?) then delete the item when they connect again
>> have a DBNPC that controls this instead of weapon scripts (best way?)
>> lendee can not drop, trade, or sell lended item
5. other related stuff (perhaps a "renting" fee)

Era's sytems are a mess right now; such a thing would not be possible.

Originally Posted by sam_is_me

You can't change those in a script?

Not when the player is offline. The only solution is the remove on login, but like Sales said, that's messy and prone to break.