"Borrowing" Items

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

The only way you get scammed on Era is if you're an idiot and don't use the trade systems put in place for your own god damn good.

So here's how it'd really go in your scenario:

You save up all your money for years and years and you are finally getting your first [car/gun]. You know about itemtrade and the mall systems. However, you decide instead to trust Honest John who's lurking in a dark alley on the corner of Broadway and Martin Luther King Street. He promises you the car/gun, and he also says he'll throw in a free candy cane. Good god, this surely is the nicest man in the game! You've been admonished by the server (and, if you're asking around - friends and random jackasses) to use the safe itemtrade/mall systems already put in place. But Honest John refuses to use those, claiming he's got a bit of a limp and can't quite make it all the way to the mall.

What's the smart thing to do there? If you actually think trusting Honest John who's refusing to do a safe trade is a good idea, I think Geno might be right. You do need to learn a lesson. Common sense + the pre-existing trade systems should prevent any scamming from happening at all.

As for the lending shenanigans, there's absolutely no reason why the staff should have to deal with lends. It's something that's not supported by any system in place on the server, therefore it should be lend-at-your-own-risk/know-who-your-real-friends-are (hint: they're not on your buddy list) kind of thing.

Besides, that kind of thing is just asking for some biased/corrupt PR to try to abuse it. PR's friend gets a bad trade, begs for him to reverse it. PR does, and then tells everyone "it was a lend, k? the other guy is lying." Or you'll get players claiming a PR watched a "lend" that never really happened, and assuming this staff member cares enough to check, he/she'll waste tons of precious time finding out he's bluffing.

Either make an automated system to allow lending (not worth it at allll in my opinion), or just let people lend at their own risk. We're over concerned with players getting upset here. If you're a ****ing idiot and lend your **** out everywhere, it's your own damn fault if you lose it. We don't need to shove out the bottle and pacifier every time someone cries over a stupid mistake.

Regardless, Geno makes a valid point that's true for both scamming and lending messes: You get burned once, and unless you're extremely stupid/gullible, it won't happen again.

[LordSquirt]

Originally Posted by Frankie

if my staff team consisted of 7 PRs HoudiniMan would of had my balls, lol.

It's 7 PRs including me. In actuality that number is pretty low compared to the player count of Era.

[Vman13x]

Id have to agree on a few more PRs.
Sometimes when something is needed like a hacker, and no pr is on they just get to hack for free. This is just an example there are other things too.

[cbk1994]

I remember when I first got scammed.

Snow resort, good memories .

[papajchris]

Wow somehow all my writing got erased and im not rewriting it all. So i'll summarize it.

My point still stands. September 11 would be a win-win in Geno's eyes.

@MontyPython: Your scenario is inaccurate, as a scammer on Era doesn't look suspicious. He tries to trick a player into dropping their item. He doesn't sit in a dark alley. Instead he may say that hes lagging and his trade window is broken, or that he's an undercover GP. Nonetheles, why should people who scam get the easy way out? They deserve to be punished. People who get scammed are NOT idiots. That type of belief is what makes Era a place for many ego-crazy teenagers.

The only reason people dislike scamming being illegal is because they want to scam to get their money. Or they argue that it's the players fault. But it shouldn't be someones fault for trusting someone, and having scamming be illegal is also a win-win. (Aren't you happy GENO?) Scammmers get jailed and learn not to scam, and the victims get their items back and learn not to trust people so easily!

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

@MontyPython: Your scenario is inaccurate, as a scammer on Era doesn't look suspicious. He tries to trick a player into dropping their item. He doesn't sit in a dark alley. Instead he may say that hes lagging and his trade window is broken, or that he's an undercover GP. Nonetheles, why should people who scam get the easy way out? They deserve to be punished. People who get scammed are NOT idiots. That type of belief is what makes Era a place for many ego-crazy teenagers.

Of course he doesn't sit in a dark alley, but I was trying to relate it back to your scenario which appeared to be ripped from the pages of life ("saved up money for years and finally had enough to buy a car, so you went down to the dealership...dealer takes your money, blah blah blah").

Here's my question to you: A person who's trying to get you to drop your items or says his trade window is broken (which if it only applies to him and not the entire server, makes no sense) doesn't seem suspicious to you? I stand with what I said. Common sense + using the trade windows = failsafe. At the very least, someone with common sense would say "Okay, well, PM me back when your trade window is fixed." And side-note, what's an undercover GP trying to do scamming a player? I can see going undercover to bust a scammer, but what's the GP doing playing the scammer?

I've never scammed a player in my life. I think the practice is despicable. However, that being said, when there's systems already set in place that prevent scamming - scamming shouldn't be an effective strategy at all. Yes, there are people that are gullible, too trusting, etc. But once again, if they actually go against all common sense, all good council, and all logic - they've only got themselves to blame.

What's next, staff protection against accidentally destroyed items?

"Hey man, I dropped my Sten on the beach and I started axing it. Well, I only meant to axe it down to .1, but I accidentally hit space bar again and now it's gone to the place where all other dead inanimate object souls go. Spawn another one for me?"

Or maybe accidental deaths?

"I thought I was in a No-PK zone, so I started to idle. I come back, and now I'm dead. Remove that death for me, please?"

Extreme? Maybe. Point is: You're given the tools you need to succeed, if you don't...it's your own fault. Accept personal responsibility for your actions.

[Frankie]

if the car dealer stole my money I'd knock him out by elbowing him in the face, then kick out all the car windows and finally take my money back and leave. but that's just me. maybe a system should be made on Era where you can challenge the scammer and it brings you both to a boxing ring and you kick the guy's ass for your money/items back. would be legit.

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by Frankie

if the car dealer stole my money I'd knock him out by elbowing him in the face, then kick out all the car windows and finally take my money back and leave. but that's just me. maybe a system should be made on Era where you can challenge the scammer and it brings you both to a boxing ring and you kick the guy's ass for your money/items back. would be legit.

Frankie vs. Inner City Thug who overtly steals large quantities of cash for a living...

[salesman]

Common sense might not always help you against players abusing glitches, modem-tapping into storages, gang/business scamming, etc

Which is why scamming is illegal.

[Spikedude]

Originally Posted by salesman

Common sense might not always help you against players abusing glitches, modem-tapping into storages, gang/business scamming, etc

Which is why scamming is illegal.

I wouldn't consider abusing glitches or modem-tapping to be scamming, exactly. But yeah, gang/business scamming has always been the big loophole, and has always thrown people off.

Honestly though, why does it even make a difference to anyone if you can't scam? Not like it's negatively influencing gameplay in any way to have scamming illegal.

[luke10050]

Originally Posted by Spikedude

Honestly though, why does it even make a difference to anyone if you can't scam? Not like it's negatively influencing gameplay in any way to have scamming illegal.

Iono but i always liked it so era worked like this:
1 guy makes money all summer
while i have fun,
when winter comes around i just take the 1 guys money and spend it.
and it repeats once a year.

I always liked it like that, its a shame we cant do that anymore.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by salesman

Common sense might not always help you against players abusing glitches, modem-tapping into storages, gang/business scamming, etc

Which is why scamming is illegal.

Even when scamming was legal, there were still those types of "illegal" scamming.

If they're tampering with gameplay to get ****, yeah. That should be reversed. I'm only talking about the "hey man im on a mac and my mom needs to send an email to my stepdad's brother's sister's kid's girlfriend so just drop ur **** in the library and ill drop mine" kind of scams.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

Even when scamming was legal, there were still those types of "illegal" scamming.

If they're tampering with gameplay to get ****, yeah. That should be reversed. I'm only talking about the "hey man im on a mac and my mom needs to send an email to my stepdad's brother's sister's kid's girlfriend so just drop ur **** in the library and ill drop mine" kind of scams.

Yeah stuff like that has happened, but I don't think that it's their fault. Most of these scams usually happen with new players where its hard for them to make money, so if they find a deal that's too good to be true, they'll probably take it. Now that doesn't mean that they don't deserve their item back, they didn't know any better. They're new and not really sure how the systems work like most of us. But I really don't think they should just flat out lose their item.

[Old_Days]

Scammings legal as long as a PR doesnt see it.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Old_Days

Scammings legal as long as a PR doesnt see it.

No, it is not. Scamming is completely illegal. The only time we cannot reverse it is if we have no way of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a scam took place. Most of the time when we get scam reports, it's the result of someone USDing or CSTing.