New Shop Released

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by whitedragon

what? Leave the chinese proverbs to the chinese.

我不明白！我是中国！

[TheGodAngelo]

Originally Posted by NewYorkerNick

Although I know your answer is no and your reasons for it gave been repeated endlessly on these forums, it would be neat if you brought your talents to iPhone so players can actually see them.

iphone gets alot of it's game content (hats excluded) from pc classic anyways :P it's all sharing and caring when it comes to graal.

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

'self-sustaining overlap'

that's interesting, self-sustaining. players stay longer when there's other players. keep bringing in new ones before the old ones leave. you have a reason for new players to come and old players to stay. thor explained this to me before but it never "clicked" untill just now :P

[kingcj]

I liked the quest, but it was short.

Something you could do is, when you have all your quest materials done, give a tutorial on commonly used quest items. It would give the player some sense of what to do on quests, and you could have the tutorial skip-able so anxious players could move on.
This way when they complain you could honestly say that they could have had a heads up about questing if they took the tutorial.

-EDIT-

Also, the "short-cut" is only one way. Yeah, it cuts running to a quest in half, but then I have to walk all the back around the trees again? Why not place horses around the world, or make it a two way short-cut, or (this may be down the road a bit but) even do a weapon that would summon a horse? This way traveling wouldn't seem like a chore. It isn't like the scenery changes... Just some ideas.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by kingcj

Also, the "short-cut" is only one way. Yeah, it cuts running to a quest in half, but then I have to walk all the back around the trees again? Why not place horses around the world, or make it a two way short-cut, or (this may be down the road a bit but) even do a weapon that would summon a horse? This way traveling wouldn't seem like a chore. It isn't like the scenery changes... Just some ideas.

I'm not sure what suggestion you were referring to by "this may be down the road a bit" but I had already intended to scatter horses around various places, there is already some different coloured horse within another secret location , a portable horse however would likely cause horses to lose much of their novelty.

I can't imagine anyone would say that they wouldn't prefer to be able to get from place to place quicker, but is it really that much of a chore as it is now?
In terms of our map its going from the center to the top right, but in comparative terms our map is quite small.

[kingcj]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I'm not sure what suggestion you were referring to by "this may be down the road a bit" but I had already intended to scatter horses around various places, there is already some different coloured horse within another secret location , a portable horse however would likely cause horses to lose much of their novelty.

I can't imagine anyone would say that they wouldn't prefer to be able to get from place to place quicker, but is it really that much of a chore as it is now?
In terms of our map its going from the center to the top right, but in comparative terms our map is quite small.

Yes and it will be because a player is forced to make that trip over and over again. Especially since it would be a one way trip because of the one way short cut. And not a "portable horse" just like a whistle or something that could summon a horse. <- which is what I was referring to as later down the road, as a quest or purchaseable item...

I know you want to keep players on the server, but it should be done with content not walking from the quest then back to Master Li's then back and forth.. It's already old and there isn't a ton of content/quests.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by kingcj

And not a "portable horse" just like a whistle or something that could summon a horse. <- which is what I was referring to as later down the road, as a quest or purchaseable item...

Something which would enable the immediate use of a horse anywhere at any time is essentially a portable horse, having a means of calling the horse may make more realistic sense than firing a weapon and and suddenly being mounted, but there's still the problem that they may become over-used and thus lose importance.
We do however have an idea of an end-game weapon to enable quicker travelling to destinations but this is a long way down the line.

Originally Posted by kingcj

I know you want to keep players on the server, but it should be done with content not walking from the quest then back to Master Li's then back and forth.. It's already old and there isn't a ton of content/quests.

I'm not trying to advocate travelling around as a means of keeping players online, but this is always going to be expected to a certain extent in what is a world, if something is taking a long period of time to reach then yes it is potentially a problem, otherwise a line has to be drawn somewhere.
I've counted the time it takes to go from level 14 (the main hangout outside the bank) to Master Li's house at roughly 30 seconds, obviously people will have varying ideas of what is reasonable but 30 seconds is significantly less time than what the actual content can be expected to take.

[kingcj]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Something which would enable the immediate use of a horse anywhere at any time is essentially a portable horse, having a means of calling the horse may make more realistic sense than firing a weapon and and suddenly being mounted, but there's still the problem that they may become over-used and thus lose importance.
We do however have an idea of an end-game weapon to enable quicker travelling to destinations but this is a long way down the line.



I'm not trying to advocate travelling around as a means of keeping players online, but this is always going to be expected to a certain extent in what is a world, if something is taking a long period of time to reach then yes it is potentially a problem, otherwise a line has to be drawn somewhere.
I've counted the time it takes to go from level 14 (the main hangout outside the bank) to Master Li's house at roughly 30 seconds, obviously people will have varying ideas of what is reasonable but 30 seconds is significantly less time than what the actual content can be expected to take.

These are just easily implementable ideas that you don't have to use. Obviously the server is perfect and no player should give you input about it. Even if they do you should defend everything to the death. Door was right.....

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by kingcj

These are just easily implementable ideas that you don't have to use. Obviously the server is perfect and no player should give you input about it. Even if they do you should defend everything to the death. Door was right.....

I believe it's better to explain our viewpoint rather than silently ignore people's suggestions.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by kingcj

These are just easily implementable ideas that you don't have to use. Obviously the server is perfect and no player should give you input about it. Even if they do you should defend everything to the death. Door was right.....

Never mind the fact that Crono's suggestion about re-positioning TNT when thrown directly onto the door, or Luda's suggestion that a book be moved to a different location within Zol's Toilet, among many other suggested changes after the release of Zol's from the other thread have been implemented then.

[kingcj]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

I believe it's better to explain our viewpoint rather than silently ignore people's suggestions.

I'm not saying that you have to accept my ideas, but it would be nice to see that the two way "short-cut" idea would be acceptable. It wouldn't even have to be implemented just an "well that's a good idea" would suffice, but so far on this thread most ideas have been shot down. Also I do agree that the quests should have the mice and inconvenient things with a small degree of logic required to figure things out. Also the tutorial idea would only help new people.

It just seems like a battle with you to try and make things better.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by kingcj

I'm not saying that you have to accept my ideas, but it would be nice to see that the two way "short-cut" idea would be acceptable. It wouldn't even have to be implemented just an "well that's a good idea" would suffice, but so far on this thread most ideas have been shot down. Also I do agree that the quests should have the mice and inconvenient things with a small degree of logic required to figure things out. Also the tutorial idea would only help new people.

It just seems like a battle with you to try and make things better.

Every idea has an upside and a downside. Being a developer means you need to weigh those ups and downs and decide on what is best for the game.

If you pitch an idea, we definitely do consider it, but often people only explain why the idea is good, rather than the downsides that are packaged along with it.

So, we usually respond something along the lines of "okay, but if we use your idea, X will be a downside of it, so we probably won't". If the ups still beat the downs, then we do it.

I think that's perfectly reasonable. Perhaps designing a game is a battle -- but a peaceful battle to a constructive end, rather than an endless war of words only to be won through attrition.



To be slightly more concrete, it is true that providing a shortcut would make travel less annoying. But to what extent do we reduce travel? Two-way shortcut? Horse summoning? Teleportation?

I think travel has the upside of making the quest more dynamic, as long as it isn't too long. You can travel with friends, chat with people, and gain a moment of familiarity in a potentially confusing quest.

The reason we added that one-way shortcut was so you wouldn't have to run the same path twice within like 3 minutes. Instead, you would have a little run through the forest to Master Li's as a moment of relief from the questing, not a 10-minute grudge through a gargantuan overworld.


When our overworld gets larger, this will become more relevant and we will hopefully come up with a neat solution to keep travel time at a healthy minimum.

[kingcj]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

If you pitch an idea, we definitely do consider it, but often people only explain why the idea is good, rather than the downsides that are packaged along with it.

So, we usually respond something along the lines of "okay, but if we use your idea, X will be a downside of it, so we probably won't". If the ups still beat the downs, then we do it.

I think that's perfectly reasonable. Perhaps designing a game is a battle -- but a peaceful battle to a constructive end, rather than an endless war of words only to be won through attrition.

To be slightly more concrete, it is true that providing a shortcut would make travel less annoying. But to what extent do we reduce travel? Two-way shortcut? Horse summoning? Teleportation?

I think travel has the upside of making the quest more dynamic, as long as it isn't too long. You can travel with friends, chat with people, and gain a moment of familiarity in a potentially confusing quest.

The reason we added that one-way shortcut was so you wouldn't have to run the same path twice within like 3 minutes. Instead, you would have a little run through the forest to Master Li's as a moment of relief from the questing, not a 10-minute grudge through a gargantuan overworld.

The quest was short so I traveled back and forth through the forest in like 8 minutes because I didn't know a shortcut existed. And the playercount doesn't exist for said friends, chatting, etc.

Also to be slightly more concrete, you haven't said anything about the "good ideas" such as a the tutorial idea. You only pick the seemingly "bad ideas" to pick apart and don't say much otherwise. That's why it seems like a battle to me.

I don't doubt you need to weigh the ideas, but you should weigh them all with feedback to the player. Not just the ones that are easy to turn down.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Something which would enable the immediate use of a horse anywhere at any time is essentially a portable horse, having a means of calling the horse may make more realistic sense than firing a weapon and and suddenly being mounted, but there's still the problem that they may become over-used and thus lose importance.

One must acquire oats to convince a summoned horse to be mounted. Horses don't work for free.



jk idk classick i just like busting your balls

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by kingcj

The quest was short so I traveled back and forth through the forest in like 8 minutes because I didn't know a shortcut existed. And the playercount doesn't exist for said friends, chatting, etc.

As you know, we are under construction. We aren't designing the server to be the ultimate experience for those who are playing right now, we're doing it for everyone who is going to be playing when we go live.

Originally Posted by kingcj

you haven't said anything about the "good ideas" such as a the tutorial idea. You only pick the seemingly "bad ideas" to pick apart and don't say much otherwise. That's why it seems like a battle to me.
I don't doubt you need to weigh the ideas, but you should weigh them all with feedback to the player. Not just the ones that are easy to turn down.

We tend to just comment on a couple ideas rather than all of them. Usually we pick to comment on the ideas that are 'important' and global to the server than local to one quest. Our release threads are already populated with a decent amount of discussion about development, responding to every single idea would become a little crazy.




Since you requested specifically, I can give you feedback on the quest item tutorial idea as well.

Originally Posted by kingcj

Something you could do is, when you have all your quest materials done, give a tutorial on commonly used quest items. It would give the player some sense of what to do on quests, and you could have the tutorial skip-able so anxious players could move on.
This way when they complain you could honestly say that they could have had a heads up about questing if they took the tutorial.

We don't necessarily want to appeal to the 'hold my hand' crowd too much.

If you've played Zelda LTTP, one of the most interesting parts about the game is acquiring a new weapon and figuring out how it interacts with the environment and baddies. Usually LTTP gives you some hints on how to use the weapon. (Sometimes the hint is just that no other weapon kills the baddie right outside the room you got the weapon.)

I feel like a tutorial walking the player through every most aspects of the questing experience would kind of kill most of the 'adventure' out of an adventure server.

I think it's better to instead use creative tricks to explain to the player how to accomplish certain tasks in the quest itself, which is usually what we try to do.




Overall, we really do appreciate commentary on our development. We can't implement all ideas and respond to every single critique, but we do read everything people post, and everyone's points sway us one way or another, just perhaps not fully. You can bet that we'll be discussing travel extensively on RC now that you brought it up again.

[Mark Sir Link]

When I originally brought this up, I don't think the issue was travel time so much as why is an important quest hub so far away from where things are actually happening?

It seems you're are making Master Li an influential character in the story (or at least to what's happening in Graal City), so if he carries such influence, why wouldn't he be able to create an outpost somewhere a bit closer to the city, or arrange for easier transportation from his place to the city?