Everyone wants to lead!

salesman · #1 02-01-2011, 05:18 AM

I've been working on a gang system which will potentially allow anyone to create their own gang. Out of curiosity, I decided to start a poll to see how many people would be interested in leading their own gang rather than joining someone else's. So far, it looks like everyone wants to lead! At least more than I had expected.

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1-man gangs wouldn't be very fun, so this could be a problem. I thought of a few potential solutions:

Put a high price on gangs. 50k or something.
- Pros: wanting to lead a gang and having the money are two different things
- Cons: I wanted this system to be open to anyone (even noobs)
Put a limit on the number of gangs.
- Pros: This would solve the problem of too many gangs but not enough players
- Cons: This defeats the purpose of my system
Let 'em lead. Eventually they will fail and end up joining other gangs
- Pros: I wouldn't have to do anything
- Cons: There's no guarantee

In my opinion, putting a price on gangs is the best solution, and it is probably what I will end up doing. Regardless, I wanted to share these results and I'd also like to hear your ideas.

Rufus · #2 02-01-2011, 05:22 AM

A little off topic but I love Era's poll system, who made that beaut?

salesman · #3 02-01-2011, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

A little off topic but I love Era's poll system, who made that beaut?

Thanks, I did. I had originally started it to release in the code gallery, but ended up making it for Era. I will post the source as soon as I find time to go through it and remove some era-specific stuff.

bloodykiller · #4 02-01-2011, 05:28 AM

noobs cant lead a gang (nas and sx as lc leaders=fail)

Dragon551 · #5 02-01-2011, 05:29 AM

Option 3 is really just making another party system.. Option 2 would really be the same thing as making a party, since every party has a member cap already. Option 1 is really the best one out of these 3.. In my opinion :3

Lucsian · #6 02-01-2011, 05:34 AM

I would think letting anyone create a gang for 50k would be the best bet. It might bring back that "exclusive" feeling of a gang and could potentially make gangs more like families again. Closed, invite only, and hard to get in to.

But I fear that doing this will also make gangs feel like parties and that anyone could make a gang. A solution to this happening is increasing the price of them and make someone gather the money from several people in order to have the funds.

But anyways, I like the idea of anyone being able to purchase a gang and I think it could produce some pretty good results.

salesman · #7 02-01-2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon551

Option 3 is really just making another party system.. Option 2 would really be the same thing as making a party, since every party has a member cap already. Option 1 is really the best one out of these 3.. In my opinion :3

The only real similarity between the gang system I am designing and parties is that anyone can make their own instead of relying on admins to choose 2-4 static gangs. It's not going to be just a simple tag adder, but that is a topic for another discussion.

Also, option 2 isn't suggesting a cap on the number of members, but instead a cap on the number of gangs (similar to the current system).

Another idea is to make creating a gang require more than just one person (3 supporters or so).

bloodykiller · #8 02-01-2011, 05:47 AM

best idea is:
have 3 gangs and every week the last gang is cancelled and a new gang is created given to the top gangpoint scorer of the past week or maybe a gang event MVP
loads of noobs have 50k
noob buys gang
nobody joins
gang fails
raids suck
innactivity

Lucsian · #9 02-01-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

loads of noobs have 50k
noob buys gang
nobody joins
gang fails
raids suck
innactivity

Solution: increase the price of the gang. (50k is way to cheap).
In this system, gangs are going to be made to fail, and there will be definately more than 3 that stick (and those will be 3+ good active ones)
More raids (because more gangs)

SensesFail · #10 02-01-2011, 05:53 AM

Yes, TK thats true, but then thats 50,000 that they are out for failing to run the gang....Thats the risk they take of putting 50k up and being able to run it, There are costs and benefits...The cost is 50k, the benefit is you have your own gang, the other cost is if you fail you lose that 50k and your gang gets scrapped. So it will take some talent and skill to be able to do so.

fowlplay4 · #11 02-01-2011, 06:23 AM

I'd imagine that most of the "leaders" would also be quite happy with senior/co-leader positions in gangs as well.

bloodykiller · #12 02-01-2011, 06:36 AM

more than 3 gangs is a bad thing for gang activity not a good one

Tim_Rocks · #13 02-01-2011, 06:46 AM

Will there still be gang guns?

fowlplay4 · #14 02-01-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

more than 3 gangs is a bad thing for gang activity not a good one

Statistical evidence shows that bottlenecking a majority of the player-count that want to lead their own gang to only 3 gangs is a bad idea.

Top gangs will naturally reach the top (as long as the incentives are worth it), allowing players to form their own can only make this process much less staff-involved.

deathbarrier99 · #15 02-01-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucsian

I would think letting anyone create a gang for 50k would be the best bet. It might bring back that "exclusive" feeling of a gang and could potentially make gangs more like families again. Closed, invite only, and hard to get in to.

It's so hard to do this nowadays with the ratio of skill to players. It used to be a larger population with a small amount of elite PKers. Now there's a smaller amount of elite PKers in a smaller population. If you'd lead a gang you'd understand what I meant.

Besides, the only "elite" PKers left are already leaders in gangs.

And if you think you're elite you're probably not (I'm talking about NYChris, FalkonJenova, Cole, etc. and dare I say Wil Soul)

LordSquirt · #16 02-01-2011, 08:54 AM

you left me out of that list

If you say the word MVP my name is synonymous with that

cbk1994 · #17 02-01-2011, 12:33 PM

Putting a price on gangs is a bad idea, in my opinion. What makes Era fun for a lot of new players is that they can form parties and raid Era Mafia against other noob parties.

Unless you're planning on keeping the party system, everyone should be able to create gangs. The noobs creating their own gangs won't be subtracting quality members from the good gangs, anyway.

Demisis_P2P · #18 02-01-2011, 12:44 PM

I'm gonna make a skateboard gang called the Gringos of Grind

TSAdmin · #19 02-01-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Putting a price on gangs is a bad idea, in my opinion. What makes Era fun for a lot of new players is that they can form parties and raid Era Mafia against other noob parties.

Unless you're planning on keeping the party system, everyone should be able to create gangs. The noobs creating their own gangs won't be subtracting quality members from the good gangs, anyway.

I'm inclined to agree with Chris on every point here. A focus should be moving party and gang bases less "far and wide" and more like EM: Closer to the central locations of Unstick and hospital. I don't attribute their survival to such factors, but there is heavy weight in BB and BH's locations being the reason they have lasted the longest (regardless of "on and off" activity), keeping them "raidable" constantly and giving that feeling like the PKing could go on and on, while other gangs created tend to be off in obscure locations like the beach (Morano Family), for example. Nobody wants to travel that far knowing that once they get there, those who survived a wave of attack will have healed and positioned themselves with time to spare.

TL;DR: Bringing the bases closer to centralised locations = more competition to have those bases, with EM being the perfect example of parties fighting over that one base, or BB and BH raiding each other due to being near Unstick and the Hospital.

bloodykiller · #20 02-01-2011, 04:42 PM

nychris was a noob when i quit in 2007, i mustve missed something

Supaman771 · #21 02-01-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

OP, your ideas.

My Ideas:

Player has to be classic/gold (cuts a few off the top).
$5,000 creation fee.
If a gang produces under 100 points two weeks in a row (inactivity?) it would be removed.
10 member limit + 1k/extra slot (max 25 slots)... thats 20k total for a full gang list (+5k creation), not too much but you still need the funds.
Leader needs 4 co-signers to accept for the gang to be created. (no 1 man gangs unless those 4 end up leaving or whatever.... will make it a bit harder to get access to a gang by yourself).
Players can't leave a gang for 7 days after joining. (No gang hopping, or prevent a certain group from mass creating gangs if joined with the above idea).

Ya that's all I can think of right now.

Dnegel · #22 02-01-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Player has to be classic/gold (cuts a few off the top).

$5,000 creation fee.

If a gang produces under 100 points two weeks in a row (inactivity?) it would be removed.

10 member limit + 1k/extra slot (max 25 slots)... thats 20k total for a full gang list (+5k creation), not too much but you still need the funds.

Leader needs 4 co-signers to accept for the gang to be created. (no 1 man gangs unless those 4 end up leaving or whatever.... will make it a bit harder to get access to a gang by yourself).

Players can't leave a gang for 7 days after joining. (No gang hopping, or prevent a certain group from mass creating gangs if joined with the above idea).

Green = Yes
Brown = Yes/No
Red = Elton John (umad swear filter?) / No

deathbarrier99 · #23 02-01-2011, 08:44 PM

I think not allowing players to leave a gang for 7 days is a bad idea. Allowing players to leave a gang creates a natural ebb and flow in the gang system that keeps things fresh. In some cases, 1 player is able to make a huge difference in gang battles.

Lucsian · #24 02-01-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supaman771

My Ideas:

Player has to be classic/gold (cuts a few off the top).
$5,000 creation fee.
If a gang produces under 100 points two weeks in a row (inactivity?) it would be removed.
10 member limit + 1k/extra slot (max 25 slots)... thats 20k total for a full gang list (+5k creation), not too much but you still need the funds.
Leader needs 4 co-signers to accept for the gang to be created. (no 1 man gangs unless those 4 end up leaving or whatever.... will make it a bit harder to get access to a gang by yourself).
Players can't leave a gang for 7 days after joining. (No gang hopping, or prevent a certain group from mass creating gangs if joined with the above idea).

Ya that's all I can think of right now.

i like everything in it, especially the last point, but shouldnt the price of the gang go up? If it's that low, I don't think there would be very many quality gangs created. It should cost them more so they know that if they fail, then everything they invested into it will be lost. Not just 5k they can **** out whenever they want to.

Demisis_P2P · #25 02-01-2011, 09:04 PM

Just modify parties.
Remove the word Party from them.
Then make it so parties have levels, and each level you gain allows you to add another member to your party. Parties get exp for killing other players, holding capture bases and for winning events.
When a party gets to level 10 (15 members) they can buy a base for X amount of money.
Over time gangs will emerge on their own and buy up the bases.

Then you just need some way for gangs to lose control of their bases if a better party comes along and wants it (captured for 24 hours straight?).

xAndrewx · #26 02-01-2011, 09:21 PM

I love it

Ahh- turning it like iphone? I think it's a good idea. You have to work on pc version- iphone is all fun really

work for me @ salesss xoxoxox

papajchris · #27 02-01-2011, 10:28 PM

Salesman please take a serious look at my thread that talked about automatic gang events and such. I talk about parties a bit too, but the ideas will work for either gangs or parties..

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...66&postcount=1 The idea was pretty popular, just need someone to take it the next step...

With tons of gangs, gang missions/events would be a great way to kick it off.

Supaman771 · #28 02-01-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnegel

Green = Yes
Brown = Yes/No
Red = Elton John (umad swear filter?) / No

100 points is extremely easy to obtain.... I'm not even that good and I can manage to get 100 points in a single long raid. (Mind you gang points arn't kills-deaths, just kills) It's just to prevent inactivity and keep new gangs rotating in. And it's two weeks in a row... you can take a break and still come back the following week and save it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathbarrier99

I think not allowing players to leave a gang for 7 days is a bad idea. Allowing players to leave a gang creates a natural ebb and flow in the gang system that keeps things fresh. In some cases, 1 player is able to make a huge difference in gang battles.

If that was the case a group of 10 people can then create 10 gangs at once, whereas if they had to stay for 7 days they could only create 2 per week. Basically it's to prevent too many gangs (which was one of sale's points) and to prevent 1 man gangs (another one of his points). Also prevents gang hopping, which when not 'that bad' can result in such things as a player leaving to feed their own gang then rejoining to claim the prize on the week.

7 days isn't a long time... you have to make some sort of commitment, and it prevents most of the things sale's mentioned so I think it was one of my better ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucsian

i like everything in it, especially the last point, but shouldnt the price of the gang go up? If it's that low, I don't think there would be very many quality gangs created. It should cost them more so they know that if they fail, then everything they invested into it will be lost. Not just 5k they can **** out whenever they want to.

It keeps the availability of leading a gang to a wider range of players. You won't have too many random noobs because they still need 4 other people to co-sign with them. And with the member slots it would add up to 20k for a maximum gang... not to mention all the other options that can be added (buying gangguns, bases, bonuses, whatever else sales has in mind).

WillaWonka · #29 02-01-2011, 11:29 PM

I make party violla saved 50k

Eclipse · #30 02-02-2011, 01:32 AM

will soul owns life

Dnegel · #31 02-02-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supaman771

100 points is extremely easy to obtain.... I'm not even that good and I can manage to get 100 points in a single long raid. (Mind you gang points arn't kills-deaths, just kills) It's just to prevent inactivity and keep new gangs rotating in. And it's two weeks in a row... you can take a break and still come back the following week and save it.

What if you want to be in a gang that just looks cool, or a scammer gang?

DirtySk8erballs · #32 02-02-2011, 10:36 PM

Will every gang get a base? Will every gang get a gun? Will the current gangs be removed if the system is made?

deathbarrier99 · #33 02-02-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySk8erballs

Will every gang get a base? Will every gang get a gun? Will the current gangs be removed if the system is made?

I'm guessing if it's a "make-your-own-gang" system it'll be similar to the party system implemented before where the money you pay goes towards a gang base. I don't think gang guns would be made because it's been months where GBA's have been "working" to fix the gang gun that have already been created, so having to create MORE gang guns would just slow down the entire process. Also, with gangs such as MF and possibly LC being deleted, I don't think staff have a problem removing the other two. I think if the system were to be completely revamped it would wipe out the current system and in turn remove the gangs.

Everything that has been said in this thread has some correlation to the party system already created by Jenn. I think if that system was recreated it would be as successful as the first time.

Supaman771 · #34 02-02-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathbarrier99

I'm guessing if it's a "make-your-own-gang" system it'll be similar to the party system implemented before where the money you pay goes towards a gang base. I don't think gang guns would be made because it's been months where GBA's have been "working" to fix the gang gun that have already been created, so having to create MORE gang guns would just slow down the entire process. Also, with gangs such as MF and possibly LC being deleted, I don't think staff have a problem removing the other two. I think if the system were to be completely revamped it would wipe out the current system and in turn remove the gangs.

Everything that has been said in this thread has some correlation to the party system already created by Jenn. I think if that system was recreated it would be as successful as the first time.

It is really a simple task to create a gang base + gun... as much as an hour of time if you know what you're doing.

The current GBA is the worst I've ever seen. Not only can he not develop at all... but he is extremely lazy and won't even step up to do the things he is able to do.

If someone with knowledge and commitment was put into the position, then it could be done with gang bases and guns... with the current occupant of the title however... I would advise not adding those things.

Demisis_P2P · #35 02-02-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySk8erballs

Will every gang get a base? Will every gang get a gun? Will the current gangs be removed if the system is made?

I hope no, no, yes.

salesman · #36 02-03-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySk8erballs

Will every gang get a base? Will every gang get a gun? Will the current gangs be removed if the system is made?

The plan is to let gangs expand by earning points. Points are just a measure of activity, and you cannot lose points, so the more active you are, the more you can unlock for your gang.

Each gang will have a weekly point quota. This quota will start out very small (100 points or so). If a gang fails to meet its quota, it will earn a strike; three strikes and the gang is deleted. You can remove a strike by going two weeks without getting any strikes. The more you unlock for your gang, the more the weekly quota goes up. Some unlocks will also require a certain amount of total points earned before allowing you to unlock them. For example,

Add 5 member slots - Adds 50 points to your quota.
Gang Outfit Unlock - Requires 5000 total points and increases your weekly quota by 100 points.
Gang Gun - Requires 25,000 total points and increases your weekly quota by 250 points.
etc. I haven't made any unlocks yet, I've just planned out how I will implement them. Hopefully I will have a few to choose from when the system is released, and then gradually release more later on as updates.

These numbers aren't final or anything, I'm just using them as an example.

So, to answer your question. Gang bases, gang guns, and whatever you can think of could potentially be made into gang unlocks. Your gang can be as small as a party or bigger than gangs now--you just have to work for it. And yes, current gangs will be removed (but that doesn't mean you can't remake them).

Demisis_P2P · #37 02-03-2011, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

The plan is to let gangs expand by earning points. Points are just a measure of activity, and you cannot lose points, so the more active you are, the more you can unlock for your gang.

Each gang will have a weekly point quota. This quota will start out very small (100 points or so). If a gang fails to meet its quota, it will earn a strike; three strikes and the gang is deleted. You can remove a strike by going two weeks without getting any strikes. The more you unlock for your gang, the more the weekly quota goes up. Some unlocks will also require a certain amount of total points earned before allowing you to unlock them. For example,

Add 5 member slots - Adds 50 points to your quota.
Gang Outfit Unlock - Requires 5000 total points and increases your weekly quota by 100 points.
Gang Gun - Requires 25,000 total points and increases your weekly quota by 250 points.
etc. I haven't made any unlocks yet, I've just planned out how I will implement them. Hopefully I will have a few to choose from when the system is released, and then gradually release more later on as updates.

These numbers aren't final or anything, I'm just using them as an example.

So, to answer your question. Gang bases, gang guns, and whatever you can think of could potentially be made into gang unlocks. Your gang can be as small as a party or bigger than gangs now--you just have to work for it. And yes, current gangs will be removed (but that doesn't mean you can't remake them).

Sounds like a good plan.
I think once it's in place you might need to work on creating some more incentive for people to raid and defend, especially for gangs that already have their outfit and gun and are happy just being a small 5-10 man raiding team that meets their quota on the first day of each week but doesn't want to buy a base.

Another scenario I can see is that with a limited number of gang bases, what happens if Gang A starts out strong and is one of the first to buy a gang base. Then later on Gang Z forms, and by now all the gang bases are taken. Gang A doesn't have an outfit, gun or many members, and manages to meet its quota each week. Gang Z has all of the unlocks and easily meets its quota every week with a huge surplus but doesn't have a base. Would there be any way for Gang Z to somehow kick Gang A out of the base and take it over, given that they are a superior gang and there is no way for them to actually prevent Gang A from gaining points?

Another scenario, if Gang A has 17 members and needs 4,000 points for its quota each week but is stuggling to get them, can Gang A remove members and drop member slots to drop its quota to something more achievable?

If a gang gets deleted what happens to that gang gun? Are they purchased or from a rack? Can more than 1 rack be unlocked to expand the number of available gang guns?

Some of the problems are easily solved with a few caveats:
1. You need a gang base to have over 20 members.
2. You need a gang base to unlock gang gun (makes sense if you're using racks).
3. If another gang has captured your gang base your gang stops earning points until you reclaim it.
4. If your gang captures the base of another gang their points earned are awarded to your gang instead (maybe at 20% normal rate) as long as you hold it.

salesman · #38 02-03-2011, 02:53 AM

Quote: