Graal 'Classic' 3D (picture heavy)

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Elk

they should work with the UDK

Yea would be nice

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Soala

I absolutely agree.

I really doubt they would want to give up 25% and other chunks of their revenue to Unreal for licensing.

[RegretZ]

Well, I noticed earlier in this thread someone mentioned the more recent pokemon games, and how they are 3D in a 2D environment. Personally I think that maybe that would be worth a try with Graal, since the perspective works out great, and it's easy to tile for compared to a 3D world.

[xXziroXx]

Stop trying to make Graal into something it isn't and go play another game if you want to play something with 3D.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Stop trying to make Graal into something it isn't and go play another game if you want to play something with 3D.

This is kind of close-minded I think. I'm no fan of Graal's past endeavors in 3D AT ALL, but to say "graal isn't 3D" isn't really true. Mario, Zelda and so were not 3D before either, but then the N64 changed that.

[RegretZ]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

This is kind of close-minded I think. I'm no fan of Graal's past endeavors in 3D AT ALL, but to say "graal isn't 3D" isn't really true. Mario, Zelda and so were not 3D before either, but then the N64 changed that.

I agree. All of those games PROGRESSED. And at the moment, Graal isn't really progressing much. Not saying we need to change everything, but a small endeavor into 3D, even in the style pokemon does it, would be worth a try. People are always resistant to change, but sometimes we have to see what it's like, y'know?

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

This is kind of close-minded I think. I'm no fan of Graal's past endeavors in 3D AT ALL, but to say "graal isn't 3D" isn't really true. Mario, Zelda and so were not 3D before either, but then the N64 changed that.

Those games didn't have their players develop content or buy their own servers though. A 3D Graal would only split up the community and kill one or the other, probably the 2D one.

[DustyPorViva]

This isn't to say Graal CAN do 3D well, or that it would be worth the time(and I don't think it is). But to say that Graal is strictly 2D I just don't think is true. Everything has the potential to improve and explore other things, it's just a matter of whether it's worth it, and the quality put into it. Sonic is just one of those games that never did 3D very well, for example.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Those games didn't have their players develop content or buy their own servers though. A 3D Graal would only split up the community and kill one or the other, probably the 2D one.

Basing anything on an existing community like Graal is going to be a failure. In that light, making a new server "isn't Graal." In this case you're saying it will fail because of Graal's current situation. That doesn't mean "Graal is 2D" though. This is the same type of attitude when people say, "Graal is Zelda, not guns!" it just irks me.

[xXziroXx]

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

[RegretZ]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch. It doesn't even need to be a lot. Maybe 30 minutes a day to help a new person. But the end result would be very noticeable. As they say, if everyone puts even a drop in the bucket, we can fill it together.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch. It doesn't even need to be a lot. Maybe 30 minutes a day to help a new person. But the end result would be very noticeable. As they say, if everyone puts even a drop in the bucket, we can fill it together.

Testbed. Besides, learning by doing is a lot more efficient, and when you encounter an error there's plenty of people to ask for help on how to proceed.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

Ah, so your main concern is that Graal should stay 2D because it would be wasted effort pursuing otherwise. I agree, like I said I strongly disagreed with their attempt at 3D. I just didn't agree with your assertion that Graal is 2D, as that gives the impression that Graal doing anything else would make it "not Graal," which I find as silly as the people that say Graal can't be anything other than a Zelda-esque server, when scripting clearly allows much more.

[RegretZ]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Testbed. Besides, learning by doing is a lot more efficient, and when you encounter an error there's plenty of people to ask for help on how to proceed.

Yes but not everyone is able to teach themselves. Not all the tutorials are that good either. Sure, you can ask people once you have a vague idea of what you're doing, but getting started intimidates a lot of people more than anything else.

[DustyPorViva]

Graal is not the kind of place you're going to do well in if you can't dip your feet in and learn from mistakes. Is this a fault of Graal? Probably, but what can I say. Documentation is poor, help is limited and because of this, the handful of scripters get tired of dealing with the same questions over and over. ESPECIALLY when the person doesn't seem willing to experiment and learn on their own. This isn't like a programming or other popular game engine where you have a wiki being edited by a hundred or so people proficient. There are just a few people that bother with the wiki(it doesn't help you need a gold subscription), and they do it on their free time.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Yes but not everyone is able to teach themselves. Not all the tutorials are that good either. Sure, you can ask people once you have a vague idea of what you're doing, but getting started intimidates a lot of people more than anything else.

If somebody isn't able to teach themselves anything about development, then they likely wouldn't progress very far. A prime example of this would be in scripting because it can't be taught without coding your own systems.

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can be taught how variables work or what loops do but until you start coding with them you won't fully understand how to script.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch.

I think this is an exaggeration, or even completely false. Almost every single Graal developer I know would be willing to help someone out as long as that person is looking to actually improve their skills, rather than just trying to glue stuff together or whatever.

In fact, the scripting forums have been extremely awesome for weeks now. Everyone gets a good response almost right after they post, as long as the question wasn't "can you make me a car script" or whatever.


The real problem is that the resources we do have are extremely hard to find, and impossible to use for many people. You can't post on the forums without paying for an account; the Graal wiki is pretty hidden; the Testbed server is also pretty hidden and, again, requires $$$ for an account.

I think a button on Login for "looking to create your own world?" which sends you to an observer-mode-disabled RC-for-anyone Testbed and links you to the relevant stuff (forums, dev wiki, etc.), would go an extremely long way in encouraging new developers. Also, perhaps more boldly, open up the forums or certain sections of the forums to anyone using it -- a place for discussion is very important to people trying to learn.

[MattKan]

I think that a Graal 3D project would be welcomed. No, it wouldn't be all of Graal, no it wouldn't/shouldn't be more than one server (at least for along time, but yes, it would be extremely cool

Edit:
No, this should not be for iPhone, Yes, this should be for PC

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by MattKan

I think that a Graal 3D project would be welcomed. No, it wouldn't be all of Graal, no it wouldn't/shouldn't be more than one server (at least for along time, but yes, it would be extremely cool

Edit:
No, this should not be for iPhone, Yes, this should be for PC

Why? Graal is never going to be able to compete with all the other 3D games. The only thing Graal as a game has going for it right now is its relative uniqueness.

[Redwiz]

To say Graal must not be 3D and is good as 2D and there is too much competition is quite silly. Graal does have a relative uniqueness, but the main issue with Graals progress has been that new projects have always been on the horizon taking up more time than the current ones that are already out. When these projects are released, older ones are then left to be managed by player staff (some of whom can't manage things well).

The MMORPG market is populated by many games, many good many bad, but they are mostly the same. Graals relative uniqueness translated into 3D may make it more worthy of peoples money, even if it can not hope to compete with the much larger fish in the pond. If you disagree with me that's fine, just don't flame me.

The graphics are great, I think they look very good. Would be interesting to see how the players or baddies would look.

[trifle]

Hey,
don't know why I quit this for so long, graal graphics are fun to work with, hehe.

Heres a textured body, so the newbie is sort of finnished as a model.

The pic on the bottom is the texture for the default newbie.
Orange = Hands
Blue = Sleeves
Black = Belt (the one on the top is the back and the one in the middle of the texture is the front)
White = Torso
Light grey = Legs
Red = Shoes

The 2 other models have different textures, but it's the same ammount of polygons and the texturemap is the same size.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Crono]

so cute

[Galdor]

I dont know about the underpants outside the pants (superhero) look but other then that its kewl

[trifle]

I know what you mean Galdor, but it's easy to make it so it looks like pants etc. aswell.

[maximus_asinus]

always great PKT

[Luda]

Awesome, would like to see it all playable

[jorollychu]

looks like me, cute.

[oo_jazz_oo]

These are unbelievably adorable.

I guess Stefan should start Graal3D back up, eh?

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by oo_jazz_oo

These are unbelievably adorable.

I guess Stefan should start Graal3D back up, eh?

See that ship in the distance there? its "hope and dreams", it set sail long ago and is not coming back :P

[ThomV]

Originally Posted by Galdor

See that ship in the distance there? its "hope and dreams", it set sail long ago and is not coming back :P

Just Graal3D?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Galdor

See that ship in the distance there? its "hope and dreams", it set sail long ago and is not coming back :P

I think this would be a better representation of the ship:



Though if this type of movement were to be made again I'd definitely like to see a similar style to PKT's work (I think Dusty attempted something similar with the original tileset too).

[Rave_J]

if graal did another 3d server i think i would likr to see a mmo gk style 3d but with alot better graphics different characters looks ect i been trying to get stefan to reenable the graal 3d client and release the tools again but the problem would be
no one would be able to script a 3d server. alot of people have hard enough time with just a 2d server on here

[Jiroxys7]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

if graal did another 3d server i think i would likr to see a mmo gk style 3d but with alot better graphics different characters looks ect i been trying to get stefan to reenable the graal 3d client and release the tools again but the problem would be
no one would be able to script a 3d server. alot of people have hard enough time with just a 2d server on here

It may be possible to create an executable that reads a .nw file and converts the tiles into a 3d level. only problem would be level npcs and other things that use custom gfx, as well as things like fence posts that normally occupy 2 tiles would only occupy 1 once converted. As well as things such as trees and cave/house/castle/etc walls. These things could be fixed by the user later though, just as long as most of the level is converted. All it would require would be 3d objects for each tile. Would also need to make sure that tiles could be raised and lowered after converting. As mountains and such may be leveled when converting. I'm sure there's plenty of issues with the idea, but it would make the process much easier.

[DustyPorViva]

Only Graal3d I want to see:


Amiright? I'm right.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I think this would be a better representation of the ship:

Originally Posted by ThomV

Just Graal3D?

No, anything new and exciting that requires effort.

[ThomV]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Only Graal3d I want to see:


Amiright? I'm right.

You are terribly wrong.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...hp?t=134264082

[Crono]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Only Graal3d I want to see:


Amiright? I'm right.

inb4OoTromhack?

[Rufus]

Those characters look really classic-like, good job PKT.

[Rave_J]

this the one
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=56627
if they made the characters better it would be better and made different changes

[trifle]

I was "working" for the real Graal 3d project, and I didn't care for it. It to me, did not have the Graal feeling. It looked bad and it was running extreamly slow.
That is why I started this little project. Fewer polygons and alot smaller textures, but still had the feeling of playing graal, just in 3d.

Btw, here is a small level I made, it's poor in detail so far, but now that the outer and inner corners and the main wall is made, I can use it as level-makers use tiles to make whatever kind of rooms I want.