Era's Money Problems

[Sage_Shadowbane]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

You make friends, they give you stuff its really quite easy

Thanks for the tip.

[Eclipse]

like will said, all your doing is spawning guns to get rid of spawned money

[Venom_Fish]

I'm not totally against the idea Sage just introduced, I mean executed with a few minor changes but it could really do well for the current server. I hope an Administrator is actually giving something like that some though, what you're currently doing, is sorry to say; Adding incident to injury.

[Mayia]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

He said he traded FarmVille items for Era money .

farmville items arent tradable

[Spikedude]

Most games use expensive quests to get rid of money. Make a quest that has like a 10% chance of payout with like 20,000 dollars per group to participate. It would take like 5-6 people to do the quest, and for every 10 times they try to get their prize, it would take out 200,000 dollars out of the economy. Do 3 quests like this, multiply by 20 because around 100 people would probably complete it. That's like 12 mil.

Just an idea on top of what people have already said.

[Immolate]

Originally Posted by Sage_Shadowbane

And pissing off a few rich people is of more worth to the server than gaining more players? Era's real problem at the moment is that it's damn near impossible to get any item of decent quality without abusing glitches to get money or having to perform one of their tedious jobs for half a century. Obviously when people realize that they can't get anything good when they log on, most will react by saying "F*** this." and logging off.

Edit: As for your "downside" to the technique stated above. I really don't think it's a downside.. but more of an upside. I mean, in the end.. when the majority of people log on to Era, they are looking to have a good time. I don't really think money should be of any serious relevance. Honestly, when I play Graal, it's because I am bored and want to have fun.. get some items, PK, participate in events. But due to the current nature of the server it's almost impossible to do those things. I can't PK efficiently without getting owned by someone using some super gun that cost 2 million dollars, and I don't even have a mere 5000$ in my bank account. (Btw, this is just an example.. I still own people with my crappy famas.) :-P

Well, that's an entire direction choice for the management to consider. Would Era benefit with more arcade-like gameplay or should they stick with what they have? A change of gameplay focus might be a risk but it's got to be better than what's happening now.

I've yet to see assurances that New Era will be void of the problems which current Era is rife with.

[Venom_Fish]

Well, I agree. The Status Quo is unacceptable, but its not hopeless, in the sense that it can be fixed without gambling on new options. If the Administration would focus more on repair, than rebuild... the problems could/would be solved. Although, they've already wasted years on this New Era, they might as well finish it at this point.

[Immolate]

I have a few questions, to be honest:

Is there definitive proof that New Era has made a significant amount of progress? Last I heard, they were having trouble completing the tileset, which limits level design possibilities. I am also in agreement that focus should be on repairing the current Era.

By all means the Era Development team, if it has enough resources to, should simulataneously provide for each project but is any development team on Graal capable of this feat at the moment?

Where are the priorities in Era development?

[Venom_Fish]

We; the players have been kept in the dark. Outside of Gangs, and minute additional functions, we haven't seen anything. We've only heard about the ideas about Gangs, not yet anything solid. Not to undermind your observation, but its obvious they don't have the development team to complete this, let alone in a timely fashion.

Based on what I know, priorities would be:

Everything. They've been moving from one topic to the next, Gangs, Events, Businesses, Quests, Jobs, PK etc etc. Hence why I'm concluded it'd be an entirely new server. Since those are all the core makeups of Era itself.

[Immolate]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

We; the players have been kept in the dark. Outside of Gangs, and minute additional functions, we haven't seen anything. We've only heard about the ideas about Gangs, not yet anything solid. Not to undermind your observation, but its obvious they don't have the development team to complete this, let alone in a timely fashion.

Based on what I know, priorities would be:

Everything. They've been moving from one topic to the next, Gangs, Events, Businesses, Quests, Jobs, PK etc etc. Hence why I'm concluded it'd be an entirely new server. Since those are all the core makeups of Era itself.

From this then, it's probably fair to assume their vision is far too broad and, with their current resources, they're biting off a bit more than they can chew. I'm going to state the obvious, and I'm sorry if it's really obvious, that the core team should just focus on completing one aspect and idea at a time. They should really define a definitive set of static priorities.

If they had the manpower, they should create a few, small teams to handle specific roles in development rather than having one team jump from one idea to the next.

[Andre2006]

Theres also reasons to why theres less people now, for example - who really wants to pay for this monthly? I thought paying for a lifetime was expensive enough, now people have to pay monthly? that just makes people WANT to quit.

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Immolate

From this then, it's probably fair to assume their vision is far too broad and, with their current resources, they're biting off a bit more than they can chew. I'm going to state the obvious, and I'm sorry if it's really obvious, that the core team should just focus on completing one aspect and idea at a time. They should really define a definitive set of static priorities.

If they had the manpower, they should create a few, small teams to handle specific roles in development rather than having one team jump from one idea to the next.

I think that concept is beyond them.
Its far too logical, hence why I don't think developers should be left alone to develop. They tend to just build, to build. They "enjoy" developing, hence why they do it for free, there's seldom any noble cause beyond that.
Its ideal when they're being told what to develop, how, and having their specific duties listed. Rather than them doing so; freely.

Ex. Tim_Rocks.

[Immolate]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I think that concept is beyond them.
Its far too logical, hence why I don't think developers should be left alone to develop. They tend to just build, to build. They "enjoy" developing, hence why they do it for free, there's seldom any noble cause beyond that.
Its ideal when they're being told what to develop, how, and having their specific duties listed. Rather than them doing so; freely.

Ex. Tim_Rocks.

It's my personal opinion that what needs to be done is specified and prioritised. If the team members just do what they feel is important then that's not really managing a team at all. Though I'm not criticising anybody there since I'm not full aware on the under-the-hood processes of Era development.

The fact that the team is composed of volunteers does not mean it's hard nor wrong to instill a level of structure to the development process either. People volunteer for, say, the British Heart Foundation and it still manages to be an organised, well, organisation.

[Venom_Fish]

Agreed.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Mayia

farmville items arent tradable

"I'll send you ___ as a gift on Farmville if you give me $___ on Era!"

Doesn't this money problem happen a lot? You guys really need a new system for money

[Frankie]

You should also start looking at the bigger picture and figure out how you're going to prevent these type of things from happening in the future. You can't just reset everyone's bank account every time someone glitches money into the server. That's just not fair. There are probably many people who are rich because they worked hard for it, and probably weren't in the loop with this glitched money, and now they are possibly going to lose all their money simply because there is no efficient method to containing glitched money.

[Venom_Fish]

Give him a break, he's only 12.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Frankie

You should also start looking at the bigger picture and figure out how you're going to prevent these type of things from happening in the future. You can't just reset everyone's bank account every time someone glitches money into the server. That's just not fair. There are probably many people who are rich because they worked hard for it, and probably weren't in the loop with this glitched money, and now they are possibly going to lose all their money simply because there is no efficient method to containing glitched money.

You're right (though we didn't actually reset bank accounts, we just temporarily removed them and restored them the next day). I've been thinking about a good way to keep the economy more balanced. The real problem is that some people have $2m while others have <$100k. It's hard to work your way into the position where you have enough money to really market items right now on Era, and if we're totally honest, we know most people probably don't really deserve their millions.

The most obvious answer is to balance every gun and create gold sinks, but even this isn't usually effective for long. It's going to be important also to not just think about the economy and also think about competition PK-wise. We plan to have an array of leaderboards for gangs/individuals, and I think those will encourage PKing.

I went off topic, though. I hope to restore the business system to the way it was before, but also involve more NPC shops in a way that won't let business owners make a killing from exclusivity or price fixing with other owners. I'll post more about this soon hopefully. Guns being sold in different shops will reduce their rarity, though I'm not really sure if rarity is a big problem. As long as we keep the amount of money to a fair amount, I don't think we will run into the problems we have run into now.

I'm not entirely sure I answered the question, but I think that covers the majority of my plans.

[Sage_Shadowbane]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Guns being sold in different shops will reduce their rarity, though I'm not really sure if rarity is a big problem.

Well, honestly I am pretty sure that rarity is a big problem.. at this point, Era's economy revolves around rare items, and I can almost gauruntee you that. If you don't have a rare items, or above 1 million dollars, you have nothing. The only way to really get anything of value IS and always has been for the most part, involving yourself in one of these things:

A.) Working Era's jobs for roughly 500 hours straight than combining your money with other friends money to buy a business.

B.) Try and get a job at someones business, and work.. forever. (Slave labor 4 items anyone?)

C.) Find people who have lots of money/items, and attempt to make friends with them so they will let you have/borrow items.

D.) And last but not least.. the most obvious and used method of getting money, abusing bugs, glitches, so on and so forth.

This really is the reality of Era, which is quite frankly, sad and very unappealing to new comers on Era. But yeah.. 'nuff said.

[Jcs1919]

Originally Posted by Sage_Shadowbane

Well, honestly I am pretty sure that rarity is a big problem.. at this point, Era's economy revolves around rare items, and I can almost gauruntee you that. If you don't have a rare items, or above 1 million dollars, you have nothing. The only way to really get anything of value IS and always has been for the most part, involving yourself in one of these things:

A.) Working Era's jobs for roughly 500 hours straight than combining your money with other friends money to buy a business.

B.) Try and get a job at someones business, and work.. forever. (Slave labor 4 items anyone?)

C.) Find people who have lots of money/items, and attempt to make friends with them so they will let you have/borrow items.

D.) And last but not least.. the most obvious and used method of getting money, abusing bugs, glitches, so on and so forth.

This really is the reality of Era, which is quite frankly, sad and very unappealing to new comers on Era. But yeah.. 'nuff said.

D looks pretty

[Herb_P2P]

I don't know if anybody has said this but this is what is on my mind.

Why not make people "rent" houses? Like I see a lot of houses that haven't been touched because the owner has been offline for like a year.
What im saying is that each month, make them pay a certain fee for the house so that it can still be on their account, if they are late for like maybe a month that will be their first strike, if they get 2 more strikes they will be evicted :P
and their items will be in a locker (just like the same way the Hotel works) and then someone else can rent it. (but they can still sell it i guess.)

[DustyPorViva]

Clearly the answer is a bailout.

[Andre2006]

We don't need rare items or a limited amount of items it's just stupid. We don't come here to spend hours making money we come here to have fun whenever we have nothing else to do.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by Andre2006

We don't need rare items or a limited amount of items it's just stupid. We don't come here to spend hours making money we come here to have fun whenever we have nothing else to do.

This^

I did never really care about what I had, but more about meeting new people or good 'ol pals.

That was Era.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Dnegel

This^

I did never really care about what I had, but more about meeting new people or good 'ol pals.

That was Era.

Me either. Even when i could afford better guns than i had, i never upgraded. The fun of era is when your with friends messing around

[Venom_Fish]

I just killed people with whatever I had. People liked how I killed people, so they gave me better stuff to see how else I could kill people. Then it got fun, so they gave me more better stuff. Then I killed some more, and well you get how I got wealthy

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I just killed people with whatever I had. People liked how I killed people, so they gave me better stuff to see how else I could kill people. Then it got fun, so they gave me more better stuff. Then I killed some more, and well you get how I got wealthy

People who had access to srenwaps meti.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

You're right (though we didn't actually reset bank accounts, we just temporarily removed them and restored them the next day). I've been thinking about a good way to keep the economy more balanced. The real problem is that some people have $2m while others have <$100k. It's hard to work your way into the position where you have enough money to really market items right now on Era, and if we're totally honest, we know most people probably don't really deserve their millions.

The most obvious answer is to balance every gun and create gold sinks, but even this isn't usually effective for long. It's going to be important also to not just think about the economy and also think about competition PK-wise. We plan to have an array of leaderboards for gangs/individuals, and I think those will encourage PKing.

I went off topic, though. I hope to restore the business system to the way it was before, but also involve more NPC shops in a way that won't let business owners make a killing from exclusivity or price fixing with other owners. I'll post more about this soon hopefully. Guns being sold in different shops will reduce their rarity, though I'm not really sure if rarity is a big problem. As long as we keep the amount of money to a fair amount, I don't think we will run into the problems we have run into now.

I'm not entirely sure I answered the question, but I think that covers the majority of my plans.

Since the option of clearing everyone's bank account was mentioned, I thought I would make a point about it regardless if it was done or not.

I've been trying to recommend more money sinks for god knows how long. The best example I have and will always use is Pyro Tech. All PT items are non-durable goods (lawl economic terms.) People spend money on them, but they use them up and have to go back and buy more. Unlike guns where you buy one and you keep it until you trade it, and will always be in the economy unless someone destroys it.

Also, if you go with my idea to decrease the need for money to play the game, players won't have much of an incentive to abuse a glitch. I've been saying it for a long time now, the game should be fun and shouldn't revolve around an economy. This isn't new news to people that have read my proposals in the past.

[Andre2006]

What he says ^ , we do not want to work for money so we can have fun for how long? 10 minutes, then we have to go work again. We come here to have fun when we have nothing else to do.

[Nonepwnz]

we don't want any money changes or new ideas how to fix the economy that you never will succeed with. Let the players have fun, focus on new features which gives some fun into the game. Easy to gain cash too! Woaowoawowao

[Venom_Fish]

Agreed, but some degree of an economy is indeed needed. They're just going overboard with it though.

[Immolate]

Maybe a really gradual and long-term fixes could be made. It be totally brilliant if there was an instant or quick cure but the only way is to go long term and also by having open beta tests on a new economic solution. That's what the Dev server is for really.

[Venom_Fish]

Interestingly enough, I'm not sure the economic problems develop in a short-term ordeal.
There's no complete fix to it, its only to prolong its last. This one crashed due to a vast amount of problems, which as I believe, they've solved. So if they reset right now, economic problems shouldn't arise for over 5 years. If these problems are indeed solved, but I believe they are in-seek of a permanent solution. Which I do NOT believe will happen. Real-life Governments have not came to that yet, lol.

[Nonepwnz]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Agreed, but some degree of an economy is indeed needed. They're just going overboard with it though.

Haha yeah ;-)

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Agreed, but some degree of an economy is indeed needed. They're just going overboard with it though.

I do agree that there should be some sort of economy on the server, but my main point is that it shouldn't be entirely what the game is based around.

[Andre2006]

Way to kill all the prices with the auctions. Less money is streaming around the economy which forces the prices to go down.

[Thermometer3]

Originally Posted by Andre2006

Way to kill all the prices with the auctions. Less money is streaming around the economy which forces the prices to go down.

DUDE. If u didnt read this thread in the first place.. WE WANT PRICES TO GO DOWN. Guns shouldnt cost 2 mil to have. That just makes it where usders are the only ones with guns..

And I also too second reset. We should even wait for new dev. Just reset and end all economic worries/problems xD

[Silent48]

Originally Posted by Thermometer3

DUDE. If u didnt read this thread in the first place.. WE WANT PRICES TO GO DOWN. Guns shouldnt cost 2 mil to have. That just makes it where usders are the only ones with guns..

And I also too second reset. We should even wait for new dev. Just reset and end all economic worries/problems xD

^ Resets are great. However, whatever fixes/balances they add into the game once the reset occurs (assuming they do) ultimately wont stop inflation over long term. A economy is a economy, regardless virtual or real. The only way to fix/ "control" the prices of items/ "control" the economy on a virtual economy is to make sure enough cash is going out to balance how much new cash is created ( ex. mining/flower picking, etc)

[Silent48]

^ Adding to the post. One way would to make playerbusiness NPC run, so all ammo money, food money, gun money will be withdrawn from the economy, not pumped back in. Again, however, not to many players are for all business's to be NPC run so this approach wont work, but it'd be on of many possible solutions.

[Catbert]

I mined for my money 211,000 rocks mined w00t