Global Development Team additions

[Crono]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I agree. Apparently it's to prevent vandalism, though that's totally pointless on such a small wiki.

Does the wiki have some kind of system where you can "approve" people that can edit the wiki?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Crono

Does the wiki have some kind of system where you can "approve" people that can edit the wiki?

Nope, and i think that'd be really dumb anyway.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Matt

Nope, and i think that'd be really dumb anyway.

No it wouldn't, you could have it so that people with gold can edit while classic and trial members can be approved to contribute as well. It would solve the "vandalism" bit and allow more people access. This is all assuming vandalism is really that big of an issue, which it probably isn't.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Crono

No it wouldn't, you could have it so that people with gold can edit while classic and trial members can be approved to contribute as well. It would solve the "vandalism" bit and allow more people access. This is all assuming vandalism is really that big of an issue, which it probably isn't.

That'd involve creating a new usergroup on the wiki, which would take longer than most extremely small edits on these forums. I'm trying to ignore that we have to pay more to contribute, but i guess this would be good in the long run.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by Matt

That'd involve creating a new usergroup on the wiki, which would take longer than most extremely small edits on these forums. I'm trying to ignore that we have to pay more to contribute, but i guess this would be good in the long run.

It is possible to add people without a valid gold subscription to have full access to the wiki.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono

GDT needs to be more than just "lets try to help out servers and people every now and then!11" because honestly even I've been doing this on and off for years for random servers both public and private. GDT needs to be a real global team. They need to be able to pull off big tasks such as Graalympics with ease and excel in every aspect of development while being able to work together. This is a very high standard, imo, and reaching it will be quite difficult.

come on dude, even i ran graalympics once

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Matt

If GDT members are expected to show initiative and do things themselves, then disband the GDT. There's basically no need to be all dramatic and consider them globals, set Roles and Goals ect, if that's the case. Leadership of a small group such as the GDT in a community such as our own, is necessary, and a valid excuse.

I'm not saying the GDT can be fully functional and do the things we want it to do without strong leadership, but its members shouldn't use that as an excuse for doing nothing. There's a few people out there who have already proven that they don't need a big boss man to start helping (eg Jerret, Chris and Dusty), but on the other hand there's people who are sitting on their GDT tag because "they don't have a leader".

Please correct me if I'm wrong though...I don't want to bash people just because I'm unaware of what they're doing.

If any GDT Graphics Artists are looking for something to do, Era has been trying to find someone to upgrade our tileset for months

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by Crono

Does the wiki have some kind of system where you can "approve" people that can edit the wiki?

There isn't a system to approve individual modifications, but there is a system that autoapproves users to the Graal Bible. The permissions can be modified so that only certain groups can be allowed to edit. It would require that a new user group be made, and I'm not sure if Stefan is comfortable with changing the PHP file. Instructions can be found here. The difficulty arises because we aren't using a most current version, our version is quite old. There are difficulties because of the way accounts are created because I think the graal.net accounts are linked to Graal accounts.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by pooper200000

The difficulty arises because we aren't using a most current version, our version is quite old. There are difficulties because of the way accounts are created because I think the graal.net accounts are linked to Graal accounts.

I know Stefan has allowed somebody without a valid gold subscription to contribute to the graal bible in the past and the Graal Bible is now using the latest version of MediaWiki which was updated while it was offline (possibly because it may fix some of the security issues that might have caused the the wiki/support center to go offline).

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Hiro

come on dude, even i ran graalympics once

lol, what?

[cbk1994]

The listing should be up-to-date, but it's missing a lot of information, such as examples of work, contact information, and specific skills. Personally, I think there's no point of there being a Global Development Team if they aren't easy to contact and easy to learn about (as in, who does what), so it'd be a good idea to take advantage of the page (I can update stuff if someone doesn't have gold or a wiki account).

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono

lol, what?

the current stated goals are easy in comparison to what the group could be contributing, though documentation is awesome

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by salesman

I'm not saying the GDT can be fully functional and do the things we want it to do without strong leadership, but its members shouldn't use that as an excuse for doing nothing. There's a few people out there who have already proven that they don't need a big boss man to start helping (eg Jerret, Chris and Dusty), but on the other hand there's people who are sitting on their GDT tag because "they don't have a leader".

I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.

could we imply that some leader should be voted or appointed (probably appointed) as the head of the GDT (basically giving someone a team of the most competent developers to work with) with the job of directing the GDT to improve graal overall?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Hiro

the current stated goals are easy in comparison to what the group could be contributing, though documentation is awesome

No they aren't, that is if you have any standards in quality. The first graalmypics was a bit of a mess, there was nothing after that. "We" tried to do one last year but the amount of work was too much for the 4 of us to handle.

[Imperialistic]

GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.

They haven't requested scripting help (From what I see in the Global Forums), so why are you expecting us to be there?

As for the Graalympics, that really needs PWA or Stefan involvement with Playerworld Managers to ensure that it gets done, GDT can't really enforce anything.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.

It is, and I will be happy to help out and also forward information to the other members for these kind of projects if someone contacts us with details.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.

If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know: Write a wiki page on _____. Create a _____ system to release to the code gallery. Do ____ (something that anyone, even non-GTD, can already do).

This brings me back to the point I tried to make before the GDT was created. The team is pointless because the only thing separating its members from regular players is the "(Global Development Team)" appending their names.

There's only so much a regular developer can do, and it definitely doesn't require a global staff tag. People who didn't want to help before aren't going to suddenly help now that they are part of a fancy guild. If Stefan or someone with more access and rights were to lead the team, then yeah, things would great and I could see a lot of good come out of the GDT...but that clearly isn't the case.

[Vima]

Let's see if we can get this ball moving when I now am finally added to the team.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by salesman

If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know.

Seriously? Good leadership doesn't work that way at all. Structure and direction is needed for success. That's like saying a Manager can hire a bunch of developers, and be inactive because he/she has plenty of staff. Nothing will get accomplished if they're just working on what they want, or what they think is cool. Some sort of plan needs to be followed, even if it's mild.

If they don't want leadership (Which isn't the case by the way), then close this thread, and disband the 'GDT'. Simple.

I can't wait for Bell to reply.

[MysticX2X]

I didn't really read through the whole thread, but isn't there 3 other PWA who could help lead this team? Sorry if that sounds a little ignorant.

Like most others in this thread I never found any real purpose with the GDT.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by salesman

If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know: Write a wiki page on _____. Create a _____ system to release to the code gallery. Do ____ (something that anyone, even non-GTD, can already do).

Ideally this is how it would work. This is how Bell wanted it to work, too. But we don't live in an ideal world. People don't tend to get together, organize themselves, share equal power, etc. Inverness might have a different idea of what needs to be done than I do. He might think what I'm doing is completely useless. How do we decide what to do? If we're left to our own devices, are we really bound to any deadlines or standards?

A leader would function just like a good server manager: he or she would assign tasks, set deadlines, etc. Otherwise, we're relying on everybody agreeing on everything and taking responsibility for themselves and their work, including doing what needs to be done, rather than personal side projects. Ideal, but not very realistic.

Originally Posted by salesman

This brings me back to the point I tried to make before the GDT was created. The team is pointless because the only thing separating its members from regular players is the "(Global Development Team)" appending their names.

And the experience and skill, if you count those characteristics as anything important.

Originally Posted by salesman

There's only so much a regular developer can do, and it definitely doesn't require a global staff tag. People who didn't want to help before aren't going to suddenly help now that they are part of a fancy guild. If Stefan or someone with more access and rights were to lead the team, then yeah, things would great and I could see a lot of good come out of the GDT...but that clearly isn't the case.

Maybe there are members that joined with no intent on helping, but some of us actually understood what we were supposed to be doing.* The global tag (it is not a staff tag) is just to advertise the group.

But we (as in, the GDT members) have been asking about global RC. I don't think many people see the GDT as anything more than a glorified guild, simply because we're just 'regular players'. A global RC is a symbol on Graal, but it's also pretty useful for popping into servers and reminding them that we exist. Not to mention removing the necessity of server owners to add us to their staff lists for us to be able to log on (which some might never remove, causing some security problems when it comes to disgruntled ex-members); instead, they would just add rw rights to whatever it is they need our help with.

*As previously mentioned, a big chunk of what we're supposed to do is help servers to develop. As of yet, I have never personally been asked for help, and as far as know, neither have any other GDT scripters. Server owners probably aren't aware of our existence and what we do. It is our responsibility to advertise ourselves, and the last I checked this was being done.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono

No they aren't, that is if you have any standards in quality. The first graalmypics was a bit of a mess, there was nothing after that. "We" tried to do one last year but the amount of work was too much for the 4 of us to handle.

two more graalympics were held after thyms, and although they were considered "unoffical" and had no global support whatsoever, they were still ran pretty well. the GDT could create the systems to make graalympics an annual event for all servers, but they don't seem to be aiming that high (for various reasons) which makes their current projects seem weak in comparison

imagine if you took the collective members of the GDT and had them create a new classic server, in whatever theme with whatever staff - it would have the most potential in terms of quality for a kind of graal revival project

the point being not that they should be making a server, it's that they should be focused onto some large projects with the benefit of all graal in mind (things like documentation) and focus less on the serverwide helpful-hand role. graal is small enough to have a team like the GDT focus in on single, big areas of graal and improve the quality overall. instead, they're being spread thin with little to no direction on what to help out with, or what to improve, making it less useful than it could be

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Matt

I can't wait for Bell to reply.

You'll be waiting a while. She's not going to be around for a long time, remember?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

You'll be waiting a while. She's not going to be around for a long time, remember?

What's her date for return? I for some reason thought it was yesterday.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by Matt

What's her date for return? I for some reason thought it was yesterday.

To be honest Matt I do not think there is an exact date set for her return. I believe it is when she feels she wants to come back and participate. But I do hope she returns fairly soon!

[Rufus]

Bell isn't returning until after the holidays, but she still drops in now and again.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Bell isn't returning until after the holidays, but she still drops in now and again.

Pretty much this ^

For most of you it's easy because you don't have to do a lot of running around, but when you're the parent, holiday season steals a whole load of your focus. I'm not a parent, myself, but it's still taking up a lot of my time. Not to the same extent as Bell, but yeah. Her return is undetermined and will only be considered after the holiday season is over with. If it's urgent, she has mentioned people can e-mail her

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

Pretty much this ^

For most of you it's easy because you don't have to do a lot of running around, but when you're the parent, holiday season steals a whole load of your focus. I'm not a parent, myself, but it's still taking up a lot of my time. Not to the same extent as Bell, but yeah. Her return is undetermined and will only be considered after the holiday season is over with. If it's urgent, she has mentioned people can e-mail her

Oh lordy, I hate the sound of that.

[Hiro]

well how about we not idolize bell as the leader of the GDT since it's not a good bet to place everything on one person and hope they do well. there are plenty of other people who could lead the GDT just as well as bell could, except they probably have more free time than it seems bell does

[TSAdmin]

I may or may not be misinformed, but did Vulcan give up the position of leading the GDT or something (Did he even originally get the position?)? In the offset of the GDT being discussed behind closed doors (EG: The global section of the forums), I thought I recalled the candidate to lead the team toward it's goals was Vulcan. A few of reasons supporting this, 2 of which included

1) the fact that he's been a global before and knows the ropes
and
2) the fact that he's got extensive experience in just about every department the GDT covers, from Levels right up to an advanced knowledge of scripting.

However, if I was mistaken or am still mistaken on any of the above facts, set me straight. If all of the above is incorrect though, then I would be putting my recommendation for Vulcan to lead the team, in the event he'd even accept the role.

[WarLord2004]

Hi Ts... Wait did i miss something again lolz.. Alright mabey next year... Might be to late but grats to the selection. And where is bell?????? She better get here quickly Matt seems grumpy FTW.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I may or may not be misinformed, but did Vulcan give up the position of leading the GDT or something (Did he even originally get the position?)? In the offset of the GDT being discussed behind closed doors (EG: The global section of the forums), I thought I recalled the candidate to lead the team toward it's goals was Vulcan. A few of reasons supporting this, 2 of which included

1) the fact that he's been a global before and knows the ropes
and
2) the fact that he's got extensive experience in just about every department the GDT covers, from Levels right up to an advanced knowledge of scripting.

However, if I was mistaken or am still mistaken on any of the above facts, set me straight. If all of the above is incorrect though, then I would be putting my recommendation for Vulcan to lead the team, in the event he'd even accept the role.

It was the plan in the early stages, but after further discussion I was moved in to a senior role with op rights on the IRC and the ability to add/remove people from the guild. The decisions as far as what projects were to be worked on, etc still fell to Bell and Skyld.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I may or may not be misinformed, but did Vulcan give up the position of leading the GDT or something (Did he even originally get the position?)? In the offset of the GDT being discussed behind closed doors (EG: The global section of the forums), I thought I recalled the candidate to lead the team toward it's goals was Vulcan. A few of reasons supporting this, 2 of which included

1) the fact that he's been a global before and knows the ropes
and
2) the fact that he's got extensive experience in just about every department the GDT covers, from Levels right up to an advanced knowledge of scripting.

However, if I was mistaken or am still mistaken on any of the above facts, set me straight. If all of the above is incorrect though, then I would be putting my recommendation for Vulcan to lead the team, in the event he'd even accept the role.

it's clear that someone should take on the role of leader for the GDT, at least to some degree

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It was the plan in the early stages, but after further discussion I was moved in to a senior role with op rights on the IRC and the ability to add/remove people from the guild. The decisions as far as what projects were to be worked on, etc still fell to Bell and Skyld.

so (basically) skyld is the leader of the GDT at present?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hiro

so (basically) skyld is the leader of the GDT at present?

I wouldn't say its his job to lead the GDT, but he does have the authority to make decisions relating to the team. Keep in mind that Skyld is busy with other projects and uni work right now so it wouldn't be reasonable to expect him to keep up with his other duties and run the team. if he could though, that'd be awesome =D

[TSAdmin]

An update for those of you who were concerned about a certain member's addition to the team. I have removed this Katie girl from the team.

Base reasoning being she doesn't seem to be of any use to the team. No documented work/help, she's got no forums access to be contacted for help and no known GDT IRC channel affiliation noticed by regular visitors.

Also, her unorthodox addition to the team with no documented reasons for adding her nor apparent discussion with fellow team members has had a severe bearing on this outcome.

If there are any conflicts of interest in this matter, you are welcome to contact me personally by any of the means listed in my signature.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

An update for those of you who were concerned about a certain member's addition to the team. I have removed this Katie girl from the team.

Base reasoning being she doesn't seem to be of any use to the team. No documented work/help, she's got no forums access to be contacted for help and no known GDT IRC channel affiliation noticed by regular visitors.

Also, her unorthodox addition to the team with no documented reasons for adding her nor apparent discussion with fellow team members has had a severe bearing on this outcome.

If there are any conflicts of interest in this matter, you are welcome to contact me personally by any of the means listed in my signature.

great job, let's not let people get added like that again

[cbk1994]

This page still needs to be updated. What's the point of this team if they can't even be contacted?

I guess the GDT must have some other idea of what the team is for than I do, but the way I see it is that the most important thing to do is get examples of your work out there along with contact information. Otherwise, it's just a tag to sit on.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

This page still needs to be updated. What's the point of this team if they can't even be contacted?

I guess the GDT must have some other idea of what the team is for than I do, but the way I see it is that the most important thing to do is get examples of your work out there along with contact information. Otherwise, it's just a tag to sit on.

There also needs to be an addition to the contact page on the forums. I am pretty busy right now, but I will see about working on this as soon as I can.