Seriously.. Wtf?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

It's not really a problem for Stefan, since he's happy with having Graal where it is now.

On the other hand, it's in the best interest of every server manager to ensure that there's players on their server, and the best way of obtaining players is by continuously creating and releasing content, as well as advertising their server outside of Graal. How many server managers have ever done that? It's not even that expensive.

And do you know what the stupidiest **** on Graal is? The internal competition. Servers should support each other instead of working against each other. They have nothing to fear from each other, but they have everything to fear from losing players from the game as a whole.

100 percent agree with this post.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

It's not really a problem for Stefan, since he's happy with having Graal where it is now.

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

On the other hand, it's in the best interest of every server manager to ensure that there's players on their server, and the best way of obtaining players is by continuously creating and releasing content, as well as advertising their server outside of Graal. How many server managers have ever done that? It's not even that expensive.

This is true, although there is little incentive from CJ for doing this. Whether or not they should provide incentive is debatable though so I largely agree with you.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

And do you know what the stupidiest **** on Graal is? The internal competition. Servers should support each other instead of working against each other. They have nothing to fear from each other, but they have everything to fear from losing players from the game as a whole.

I agree that the internal competition does not beget a higher global quality of gameplay. The fears people have are not usually justified either, save for certain specific instances that would otherwise promote some form of intra-server cloning, which of course should be avoided. The largest reason for the paranoia begins and ends with poor communication between server administrations, of which I will concede to sharing an amount of guilt. I have made numerous attempts in the past to do a better job with this, but generally have found little else than incompetence in abundance with regards to Graal staff.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

And do you know what the stupidiest **** on Graal is? The internal competition. Servers should support each other instead of working against each other. They have nothing to fear from each other, but they have everything to fear from losing players from the game as a whole.

Okay. So you know the problem. What's the solution? How do servers "work together"? Why shouldn't Zodiac be worried about their playercount? Unless each server is unique, then the staff are going to have to worry about their own server, in comparison to similar ones. Otherwise why even have similar servers? If you're not trying to beat out the best PK server, then why not just work for it?

"Internal competition" is a must. Competition breeds better content, because one server, in theory, would be trying to one-up their competitors. Or am I completely misunderstanding what you mean by "working together"?

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Hiro

the main problem being that servers aren't putting out content (or at least information on what that content will be)

What content do you want us to make for you? Developers aren't mind readers. Before skipping us and demanding things from Stefan, try working with us first.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Okay. So you know the problem. What's the solution? How do servers "work together"? Why shouldn't Zodiac be worried about their playercount? Unless each server is unique, then the staff are going to have to worry about their own server, in comparison to similar ones. Otherwise why even have similar servers? If you're not trying to beat out the best PK server, then why not just work for it?

"Internal competition" is a must. Competition breeds better content, because one server, in theory, would be trying to one-up their competitors. Or am I completely misunderstanding what you mean by "working together"?

I agree that some competition is important, but it would also be very beneficial if good developers would share some of their stuff (as some do) with others, to benefit other servers, and Graal, even if what they offer is generic, and basic.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Okay. So you know the problem. What's the solution? How do servers "work together"? Why shouldn't Zodiac be worried about their playercount? Unless each server is unique, then the staff are going to have to worry about their own server, in comparison to similar ones. Otherwise why even have similar servers? If you're not trying to beat out the best PK server, then why not just work for it?

"Internal competition" is a must. Competition breeds better content, because one server, in theory, would be trying to one-up their competitors. Or am I completely misunderstanding what you mean by "working together"?

I'm going to view Graal as a development/hosting platform in the following thoughts, so keep my point of view in mind while reading it.


You make a server. You get it past a certain stage of development. You pass a Classic inspection. Then what? If it's a hosting platform, I shouldn't be one bit worried about any of the other servers, since I would do advertising on various places on the Internet. Google ads and advertising agencys (there's a lot of cheap and successful ones that are seen pretty much everywhere) are great means of achieving that. My only concerns would be attracting new players, and keeping them interested in my game.

If I'm successful in the above, it shouldn't and wouldn't matter to me how good or bad other servers are doing, or what elements of gameplay they're borrowing from us. If they use it for their own server, it means I must've done something good to begin with, and can look at it with a smile on my face. Of course, if it goes too far, the PWA would have to step it to avoid a complete ripoff.

Let's face it - everything is ultimately in the hands of a servers management, and I have yet to encounter any obstacle that I wouldn't be able to pass or move around without having to harass Stefan (or unixmad for that matter) about it.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

If I'm successful in the above, it shouldn't and wouldn't matter to me how good or bad other servers are doing, or what elements of gameplay they're borrowing from us. If they use it for their own server, it means I must've done something good to begin with, and can look at it with a smile on my face. Of course, if it goes too far, the PWA would have to step it to avoid a complete ripoff.

But if they do it better, and your players flock to their server because of it, you should be trying to do it even better than them. Only if the two servers alike, I guess. I mean, if Zodiac used Valikorlia's baddy scripts (not that we have them right now ), it wouldn't really matter if Zodiac did them better; Valikorlia isn't a PK server. But if it was...

I generally agree with you, though.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I agree that some competition is important, but it would also be very beneficial if good developers would share some of their stuff (as some do) with others, to benefit other servers, and Graal, even if what they offer is generic, and basic.

Well, yeah. I wouldn't have any problem sharing any of my scripts with developers. But if all the servers end up "working together" in this way, without trying to one-up their competition, then there's really no point in having multiple servers, unless they're all unique is some other way (RP server, PK, single-player quests, etc.)... Most servers are very similar, though.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Well, yeah. I wouldn't have any problem sharing any of my scripts with developers. But if all the servers end up "working together" in this way, without trying to one-up their competition, then there's really no point in having multiple servers, unless they're all unique is some other way (RP server, PK, single-player quests, etc.)... Most servers are very similar, though.

Well, I'm not really talking about sharing things that might make the playerworld unique, but things that could be incorporated anywhere.

[WanDaMan]

Supporting each other could be anything from global events like a spar tourney between the two servers best players.

[Spark910]

Crazy idea: Imagine if two servers merged together to reap the benefits of both their content and range of developers!!

[Liberated]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Crazy idea: Imagine if two servers merged together to reap the benefits of both their content and range of developers!!

You can't get the best of both servers i think,
i think the server would be more of a compromise rather then just as good as the sum of the two servers.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Crazy idea: Imagine if two servers merged together to reap the benefits of both their content and range of developers!!

Yeah, that's what I was hinting at. There's no good reason for there to be more than one PK server on the Classic list. They have different communities, but servers are about gameplay and content above all. Communities can merge, hopefully.

Originally Posted by Liberated

You can't get the best of both servers i think,
i think the server would be more of a compromise rather then just as good as the sum of the two servers.

I think the end outcome might actually be greater than the sum of its parts. It all depends on which servers you're trying to mash together and how willing they are to be mashed.

[WaDaFack]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Crazy idea: Imagine if two servers merged together to reap the benefits of both their content and range of developers!!

Ooo.
Zodiac, Val and NP-Rebirth should combine to make Zodiorlia Rebirth. Use Zodiac as the core, than take the good GFX from Val, take some stuff from NP-Rebirth and mash it all up ^_^

For a classic server, you mash up N-Pulse, Classic and UN and create N-Holy Classic!.

^_^

[Hiro]

yea guys let's, once again, not think about the players

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Hiro

yea guys let's, once again, not think about the players

Stop being so one-sided. Everyone is not going to agree with everything you say. That doesn't mean they dont care about the players, or Graal.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Stop being so one-sided. Everyone is not going to agree with everything you say. That doesn't mean they dont care about the players, or Graal.

doesn't mean i can't post my opinion still. i don't see why you had to even point that out to me, as it's a pretty one sided argument on the other side too

[Vima]

Originally Posted by Spark910

Crazy idea: Imagine if two servers merged together to reap the benefits of both their content and range of developers!!

:newsflash: allready happen.
AEON+Faded Nation, although they were UC servers and didn't have a whole range of developers :P

[King homer daStupid]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Ooo.
Zodiac, Val and NP-Rebirth should combine to make Zodiorlia Rebirth

Valikodiac sounds better...and we wouldn't need N-Pulse!

[Lonewolf2004]

Hmm... well my opinion with this whole subject is a few things that were already discussed and I have some disagreements and agreements. Graal is a good game always has been from day one.

I have a 3 theory's on the subject though.

1. I agree that stefan and unixmad need to see it for its true potential before someone American comes around changes a few sprites and coding and steal the whole Idea what it seems to me is that they leave it sitting here like big corporate business's do for rebates

If you don't know how that works its like this. Manufacturing companies overcharge retailers lets say like Bestbuy for a computer now Bestbuy sells this computer for the recommended price to make a profit but include the rebate what the big company does is hold the rebate money when people send them in (If they do) and lets them sit in the bank to make interest money. This is my first idea on what they are doing as Ive seen no advertisements or anything just word of mouth on forums for graal I bet they are just using it as retirement plans and haven't spent a cent of it and have regular day jobs.


My 2nd Theory is that they actually don't need to make a lot of money off of players because they make so much off of server hosting which is why most servers never get off the hosting tab in the first place if you have ever been on RC Which most of us have then you see that there are lot's of servers just sitting with no one to do anything but they still get paid. This makes it able for them to raise prices of the player subscription because they make enough to host the servers regularly and lets face it I myself have graal hosting files found from various sites and a weak computer can host about 300 players on one server (This was for testing reason's long ago) But these people actually pay around 100$ A year for something that can be done with a simple computer and a internet connection


My 3rd Theory they just don't know what they are doing and need to hire consultants why? well here's some examples.


Most of our player base is old and have old emails when we signed up yet were unable to change our passwords in a simple fashion. we have to go through this whole process of going to old emails and looking for information we needed long ago to get our password off that 2002 Email.

They don't advertise at all these people aren't trying to make money the online advertisement industry is BOOMING right now and they don't take advantage of it at all. You never go to google and see a Graal ad and don't say because its outdated because that's not true their are plenty of stupid games that don't deserved to be advertised yet get advertised you can simply look at runescape and see the people over their are about money they have banners,ads hell even been mentioned in magazines but look at Graal it just sits their with its updates toward the community which it already has.

Prices aren't user friendly They only have options to pay out big or no go. This isn't what brings new players in it's what drives them away I remember when you could get an account for 20 bucks and that was it no im spending around 40$ that's insane you want to be able to reach the common man and the rich man not just one. You need 5$ 10$ 15$ 20$ plans to even make money as of right now.

They leave dead servers up where no one wants to even play them at all but a few people and keep some of the good ones AWAY from the community. I mean comon folks who plays Atlantis,Delteria,Valkoria? Comon folks one wasn't even going to make it, One was cool at first when you could run around as blue and green wolfs and dare I say it one was okay when clash was around but that's all over now we want something new or at least give us the choice of voting every 2 months of which server we want to see put on to the list and stop trying to make the decisions for us. If it this is truly a Game where we the people create it then why cant WE the people do just that? I find it almost irritating when I can't play a hosted server but I can play things like Graal kingdoms. This is needs to be changed keep your gold out of ours we should be able to play the servers that actually might be good and interesting then be forced to pay more money which is exactly what their trying to do but at the same time Scaring off new customers and
losing more and more of the old ones do they not see right now the way they market their are games 100x better then graal?


Laverick

[Jimbo33]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf2004

My 3rd Theory they just don't know what they are doing and need to hire consultants why? well here's some examples.


Most of our player base is old and have old emails when we signed up yet were unable to change our passwords in a simple fashion. we have to go through this whole process of going to old emails and looking for information we needed long ago to get our password off that 2002 Email.

They don't advertise at all these people aren't trying to make money the online advertisement industry is BOOMING right now and they don't take advantage of it at all. You never go to google and see a Graal ad and don't say because its outdated because that's not true their are plenty of stupid games that don't deserved to be advertised yet get advertised you can simply look at runescape and see the people over their are about money they have banners,ads hell even been mentioned in magazines but look at Graal it just sits their with its updates toward the community which it already has.

Prices aren't user friendly They only have options to pay out big or no go. This isn't what brings new players in it's what drives them away I remember when you could get an account for 20 bucks and that was it no im spending around 40$ that's insane you want to be able to reach the common man and the rich man not just one. You need 5$ 10$ 15$ 20$ plans to even make money as of right now.

They leave dead servers up where no one wants to even play them at all but a few people and keep some of the good ones AWAY from the community. I mean comon folks who plays Atlantis,Delteria,Valkoria? Comon folks one wasn't even going to make it, One was cool at first when you could run around as blue and green wolfs and dare I say it one was okay when clash was around but that's all over now we want something new or at least give us the choice of voting every 2 months of which server we want to see put on to the list and stop trying to make the decisions for us. If it this is truly a Game where we the people create it then why cant WE the people do just that? I find it almost irritating when I can't play a hosted server but I can play things like Graal kingdoms. This is needs to be changed keep your gold out of ours we should be able to play the servers that actually might be good and interesting then be forced to pay more money which is exactly what their trying to do but at the same time Scaring off new customers and
losing more and more of the old ones do they not see right now the way they market their are games 100x better then graal?

I totally agree with that theory