"Borrowing" Items - Page 2

papajchris · #1 08-22-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

So if someone can prove the other party agreed to a lend, and staff have come to a conclusion, and someone submits the information right after, then the person will get there things back?

I don't get what your asking? If you are able to provide proof (snap shots, record the trade, chat logs provided by staff, etc..) that it was a lend staff will return the item.

CharlieM · #2 08-22-2009, 09:05 PM

Well, I know someone that has proof, and told staff they have proof, and the PR still decided that it was a regular old trade. So they are making a video proving that it was agreed upon as a lend between the two parties

papajchris · #3 08-22-2009, 10:13 PM

Well when did it happen? often when people came to me saying they got scammed and staff did nothing the scam occured before it was illegal. If you have legit proof, definitly show it to the gp's and if it's legit they will act on it. Also, i think it depends on how long it took you to report it being stolen. If your friend gave the item to someone like 3 months ago, then there is no way to reverse ALL those trades. In this case the staff may or may not just take items/money from the scammer and refund you that way.

jorollychu · #4 08-23-2009, 10:41 AM

imo people should know the risk of lending their guns

Lime_O_Matic · #5 08-29-2009, 04:57 PM

Hey, being a GP isn't so easy unless you have rules to follow for every case. This helps make decisions alot easier.

Pelikano · #6 08-29-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime_O_Matic

Hey, being a GP isn't so easy unless you have rules to follow for every case. This helps make decisions alot easier.

Dude all GPs did was:

"I'll talk to Squirt about it"

Spikedude · #7 08-29-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelikano

Dude all GPs did was:

"I'll talk to Squirt about it"

And all you've ever done is whine. Even?

Frankie · #8 08-29-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime_O_Matic

Hey, being a GP isn't so easy unless you have rules to follow for every case. This helps make decisions alot easier.

making decisions as a GP is pretty much common sense. there's nothing hard about it if there were no guidelines to follow.

Lime_O_Matic · #9 08-29-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

making decisions as a GP is pretty much common sense. there's nothing hard about it if there were no guidelines to follow.

Well, not according to the people who made the current rules on Era. If you have no guideline, it will cause people to favor players they like though. So simple guidelines must be put in effect, no matter what.

MontyPython · #10 08-29-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime_O_Matic

Well, not according to the people who made the current rules on Era. If you have no guideline, it will cause people to favor players they like though. So simple guidelines must be put in effect, no matter what.

Not really.

If you used common sense all of the time, you'd realize that as a select member of a team supposed to provide unbiased justice to the playerbase - favoring someone wouldn't be the right thing to do.

If you need a guideline telling you not to show favoritism to friends and people you want to get something from, you shouldn't be a GP in the first place.

Scary_Sock · #11 08-29-2009, 07:15 PM

Oh god, Pelikano.

Scary_Sock · #12 08-29-2009, 09:47 PM

Well, I still was confused with this situation that happend with McGyver, Danny Fiery, and Reckman. I won't go into details, but Reckman borrowed McGyver's P2k's that were supposed to be "Danny's", but Reckman also let McGyver borrow his ump. I don't know what happend furthermore, but McGyver got banned, and Reck said "It was a trade" since the logs showed it trading weapons.

Especially how rules say that if you can't wait for a GP, and you let the person borrow your item with no GP (PR) watching, its your fault unless you have proof that he scammed you. It is really easy give fake images. Anyone can edit images ad make them do things that didn't happen. I doubt anyone would take a video of the trade, since they either don't want to download anything, or it takes to long, etc.., and they scam the person. It is stupid.

Spikedude · #13 08-29-2009, 11:51 PM

Guys, this thread isn't about calling out our GPs.

The reason we need formal rules isn't as much a judgement decision on the GPs, but on the players. It's easier to deal with people who are angry about not being able to scam their items than it is to deal with the number of players who say "I WAS LETTING HIM BORROW MY GUN AND BLAHBLAHBLAH." This way, they just always have a GP watch, nobody complains, if someone is still too stupid then they have no excuse.

I've never been one for illegal scamming, but that's just the way it is right now. No need to twist around people's words and call them out over the forums.

Vin, you should propose that idea to Sales, maybe in a Era Community ticket thing.

CharlieM · #14 08-30-2009, 04:16 AM

Xen your not evevn close they were mcguvers reck asked to borrow it stole them prettty much and since the PR team is mentally disabled Squirt with his IQ of 9000 had to fix it so Mcgyver got his p2ks back and reck got an UMP no one got banned

Scary_Sock · #15 08-30-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Xen your not evevn close they were mcguvers reck asked to borrow it stole them prettty much and since the PR team is mentally disabled Squirt with his IQ of 9000 had to fix it so Mcgyver got his p2ks back and reck got an UMP no one got banned

McGyver got banned. Even Reck said so himself. But, I'll take your word on this.

[/nosarcasm]

CharlieM · #16 08-30-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

McGyver got banned. Even Reck said so himself. But, I'll take your word on this.

[/nosarcasm]

McGyver never got banned..McGyver didn't do anything wrong, Reck is the one who tried to scam someone

salesman · #17 09-01-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt

It's 7 PRs including me. In actuality that number is pretty low compared to the player count of Era.

If anyone is interested in knowing what that count is, in the last 2 weeks:

2084 unique accounts have logged on
815 of those have more than 100 hours
977 were trials

We've also had ~300 support tickets to deal with since its release (~2 weeks).

Mark Sir Link · #18 08-30-2009, 07:29 AM

I'm actually surprised there are even rules regarding lending since most other games would leave the risk entirely to the player for lending items out instead of selling them

Sinkler · #19 08-30-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I'm actually surprised there are even rules regarding lending since most other games would leave the risk entirely to the player for lending items out instead of selling them

The reason is because Staff do not condone scamming. It's not needed and unethical. We enforce safety in whatever you do AS LONG AS A PR IS WATCHING! It's not hard to follow the rules.

Mark Sir Link · #20 09-01-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinkler

The reason is because Staff do not condone scamming. It's not needed and unethical. We enforce safety in whatever you do AS LONG AS A PR IS WATCHING! It's not hard to follow the rules.

I don't see what scamming has to do with lending.

If you're not sure if you can trust someone you probably shouldn't let them borrow it. Like I said, no other game I am aware of would go through such trouble, and if this is how it's going to work you might as well just develop a lending system rather than have it individually monitored

Venom_Fish · #21 08-31-2009, 07:29 PM

Being a PR or whatever its called now, is the simplest job you can receive on the Staff Team. Without them monitoring lending trades, their job would be 80% easier =/. Then what will they do? They'd be a useless waste of space, so in case they haven't realized it yet, I hope they do now. The less you have to do, the less of a job you'll have, doesn't take long for people to realize, "all they do is answer questions now?! why not remove RC and FAQ?#@#?23!' And voula, you just lost your position.

So, stop whining.

Spikedude · #22 08-31-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Being a PR or whatever its called now, is the simplest job you can receive on the Staff Team. Without them monitoring lending trades, their job would be 80(percent) easier =/. Then what will they do? They'd be a useless waste of space, so in case they haven't realized it yet, I hope they do now. The less you have to do, the less of a job you'll have, doesn't take long for people to realize, "all they do is answer questions now?! why not remove RC and FAQ?#@#?23!' And voula, you just lost your position.

So, stop whining.

Nah, they'd just cut back. PRs need to upload/do things with set attr (like for hack-related scams, or like house/car trades). You couldn't take their RC really. That's why there only used to be a couple GPs though, whereas now there's like 10 of them.

Like you said, they'd probably cut back 50-80(percent) of them. But that's just hypothetical, I don't think the policy on scamming is about to change haha.

CharlieM · #23 08-31-2009, 11:21 PM

I am sorry but a Pr needs to watch to be safe but they don't like for you to lend for longer then around 10 minutes. I normally just talk to squirt or Erik because I get told to go to squirt by others, or if I ask Erik he will ask someone else if he needs help on some Parnell of it. Needless to say I don't lend guns anymore and the only people who have access to my storage are ones who have no reason to steal my items or don't like the guns I leave in there. I don't wish to lose my pbp again

Geno · #24 08-31-2009, 11:29 PM

i never saw why people hated scamming...it helps makes everyone stronger and betters people as players

Vman13x · #25 09-01-2009, 03:29 AM

People hate scamming well for one theyve been scammerd, and two the scammer hasnt earned that item which the other person worked hard for.

Geno · #26 09-02-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman13x

People hate scamming well for one theyve been scammerd, and two the scammer hasnt earned that item which the other person worked hard for.

the player who was scammed becomes a better player from this experience in realizing his mistake. the scammer gets the loot. everyone wins and there is no need for a team of bafoons to moderate trading.

papajchris · #27 09-03-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geno

the player who was scammed becomes a better player from this experience in realizing his mistake. the scammer gets the loot. everyone wins and there is no need for a team of bafoons to moderate trading.

so september 11 should be a good thing because terrorists made their point and people who lost friends and family will learn how precious life is? God your a ****ing *****

Geno · #28 09-03-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris

so september 11 should be a good thing because terrorists made their point and people who lost friends and family will learn how precious life is? God your a ****ing *****

hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

nice comparison bro.

CharlieM · #29 09-01-2009, 04:59 PM

It would allow for the PR team to be cut down to almost nothing so of course they won't go for a system

LordSquirt · #30 09-01-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

It would allow for the PR team to be cut down to almost nothing so of course they won't go for a system

You make it sound like there is so many PRs in the first place. I only like limited spots and compared to other servers our team is small. For example, Zodiac has around 11 PRs and we only have like 7. Also, we usually have way more players than Zodiac.

Frankie · #31 09-01-2009, 07:47 PM

if my staff team consisted of 7 PRs HoudiniMan would of had my balls, lol.

salesman · #32 09-01-2009, 08:03 PM

I don't think it would hurt to have a few more, to be honest.

Spikedude · #33 09-03-2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

I don't think it would hurt to have a few more, to be honest.

Only about 3 of the current PRs (not including squirt) are ever on (not naming anyone). I'd improve quality before quantity personally. If you're afraid of firing them and leaving the server underrepresented, then I'd hire 4 new ones, let them train, and then fire 2-4 of the old ones. Just my opinion though.

Edit: And Zeus...maybe a LITTLE extreme on your interpretation?

papajchris · #34 09-03-2009, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikedude

Only about 3 of the current PRs (not including squirt) are ever on (not naming anyone). I'd improve quality before quantity personally. If you're afraid of firing them and leaving the server underrepresented, then I'd hire 4 new ones, let them train, and then fire 2-4 of the old ones. Just my opinion though.

Edit: And Zeus...maybe a LITTLE extreme on your interpretation?

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

Spikedude · #35 09-03-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

Better. But this is a video game, and I don't think m16s are valued at the same as a real life car.

I disagree with Geno because people aren't playing Graal to "become more knowledgeable about cons!" I think scamming should be legal only because making it illegal is just saying "if you're stupid enough to fall for a scam, contact a PR and then just get scammed somewhere else." It also leaves players thinking they're safe when it's illegal, and makes them think it's unfair when they don't get their items back because a GP wasn't watching.

I agree with Rams' idea, and people saying "NOBODY NEEDS TO TRY GUNS," nobody needs to play Graal either, they do. It's called entertainment, that's what a game is for. It's fun to be able to use other people's weapons every once in a while; give some guns a test drive and make an educated decision on which fits best with you. What's wrong with that?

It'll probably never be implemented though. Too strong of an opposition and too difficult of a system to script.

MontyPython · #36 09-03-2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajchris

My example was way over the top but okay lets bring it down a bit. You save up all your money for years and you are finally getting your first car. You go to the dealership and you give him the money before you drive off with the car. Well the dealer takes your money and says you never gave them anything. So your left with no car or money, and they got your money. So by Geno's belief its a win win because the dealership got free money and the person learned a lesson in trusting people....

The only way you get scammed on Era is if you're an idiot and don't use the trade systems put in place for your own god damn good.

So here's how it'd really go in your scenario:

You save up all your money for years and years and you are finally getting your first [car/gun]. You know about itemtrade and the mall systems. However, you decide instead to trust Honest John who's lurking in a dark alley on the corner of Broadway and Martin Luther King Street. He promises you the car/gun, and he also says he'll throw in a free candy cane. Good god, this surely is the nicest man in the game! You've been admonished by the server (and, if you're asking around - friends and random jackasses) to use the safe itemtrade/mall systems already put in place. But Honest John refuses to use those, claiming he's got a bit of a limp and can't quite make it all the way to the mall.

What's the smart thing to do there? If you actually think trusting Honest John who's refusing to do a safe trade is a good idea, I think Geno might be right. You do need to learn a lesson. Common sense + the pre-existing trade systems should prevent any scamming from happening at all.

As for the lending shenanigans, there's absolutely no reason why the staff should have to deal with lends. It's something that's not supported by any system in place on the server, therefore it should be lend-at-your-own-risk/know-who-your-real-friends-are (hint: they're not on your buddy list) kind of thing.

Besides, that kind of thing is just asking for some biased/corrupt PR to try to abuse it. PR's friend gets a bad trade, begs for him to reverse it. PR does, and then tells everyone "it was a lend, k? the other guy is lying." Or you'll get players claiming a PR watched a "lend" that never really happened, and assuming this staff member cares enough to check, he/she'll waste tons of precious time finding out he's bluffing.

Either make an automated system to allow lending (not worth it at allll in my opinion), or just let people lend at their own risk. We're over concerned with players getting upset here. If you're a ****ing idiot and lend your **** out everywhere, it's your own damn fault if you lose it. We don't need to shove out the bottle and pacifier every time someone cries over a stupid mistake.

Regardless, Geno makes a valid point that's true for both scamming and lending messes: You get burned once, and unless you're extremely stupid/gullible, it won't happen again.

LordSquirt · #37 09-01-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

if my staff team consisted of 7 PRs HoudiniMan would of had my balls, lol.

It's 7 PRs including me. In actuality that number is pretty low compared to the player count of Era.

Vman13x · #38 09-02-2009, 02:29 AM

Id have to agree on a few more PRs.
Sometimes when something is needed like a hacker, and no pr is on they just get to hack for free. This is just an example there are other things too.

cbk1994 · #39 09-03-2009, 04:37 AM

I remember when I first got scammed.

Snow resort, good memories

.

papajchris · #40 09-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Wow somehow all my writing got erased and im not rewriting it all. So i'll summarize it.

My point still stands. September 11 would be a win-win in Geno's eyes.

@MontyPython: Your scenario is inaccurate, as a scammer on Era doesn't look suspicious. He tries to trick a player into dropping their item. He doesn't sit in a dark alley. Instead he may say that hes lagging and his trade window is broken, or that he's an undercover GP. Nonetheles, why should people who scam get the easy way out? They deserve to be punished. People who get scammed are NOT idiots. That type of belief is what makes Era a place for many ego-crazy teenagers.

The only reason people dislike scamming being illegal is because they want to scam to get their money. Or they argue that it's the players fault. But it shouldn't be someones fault for trusting someone, and having scamming be illegal is also a win-win. (Aren't you happy GENO?) Scammmers get jailed and learn not to scam, and the victims get their items back and learn not to trust people so easily!