Low playercount

[thesmoothcriminal]

Does anyone ACTUALLY OFFICIALLY know what is hapeening with the future of graal other then the iphone. does stefan/unixmad talk about it at all?

[Kamaeru]

In my opinion it died some odd years ago. Around the time when Graal2002 turned into Graal Kingdoms, maybe a year and a half later Graal definitely died.

I mean, ****, you can talk all you want, but I was there when it happened and so were a whole lot of people.

You might ask, if Graal is dead, then how is it still here?

...

It's called a carcass, you jackass. You shouldn't play with carcasses.

[xXziroXx]

Graal is as dead as we make it. If no one bothers making any quality gameplay that players actually will find interesting, then yes, Graal is dead - however this is not the case, I know several servers that will change that in a not too distant future.

[grim_squeaker_x]

Don't be so sure, xXziroXx.

[Yocas]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Graal is as dead as we make it. If no one bothers making any quality gameplay that players actually will find interesting, then yes, Graal is dead - however this is not the case, I know several servers that will change that in a not too distant future.

Hurry up and finish Maloria then dammit.

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Jesus christ.. i just made a thread to get some opinions and now it already has 14 pages? OMG :O

[grim_squeaker_x]

11 pages... Might be 14 in some days though. ;P

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by grim_squeaker_x

11 pages... Might be 14 in some days though. ;P

wow. your so wrong, its 14 pages, click last>>!

[Vima]

14 pages, what have we talked about? Valikoria 10 pages.
Nothing have been done tho.
Everyone will just keep working on their own projects, while there are a few servers out there who is almost complete, but needs help.
If Stefan and his team doesn't do anything, then WE, Players NEED to do something.

If maybe YOU change the "Evil Circle" Then OTHER people might do it.

[grim_squeaker_x]

Originally Posted by Deas_Voice

wow. your so wrong, its 14 pages, click last>>!

It says "Page 11 of 11" in the bottom of my page. Duh.

EDIT:
Might depend on how many posts per page your account is set to though.

I have like 20 posts per page.

[Switch]

Here's some advice to Stephane and Stefan.
If you're trying to make a game, and you want it to be a steady money-source for you/the creators, popular, and a GOOD game, you have to PAY SOME PEOPLE TO HELP!
I mean I know it's hard to trust people these days, but all you have to do is get a copyright, save a backup of all the source codes and scripts onto another, private computer, and hire some people. If you have no one being payed, what's the point? And what makes you think people will keep coming back with unprofessional, and even more, not-that-good content?
Stephane/Stefan, you really have to start thinking about the future, not the present. You think ONLY about the present. What happens when everyone finds Graal not worth their time anymore? What happens when there's only trials? What happens... what happens... what happens? You have to think about this a little more. If you have an advertisement campaign or a way to have people NOTICE Graal, and you have professionals or just even a way to give motivation to creators besides "oh, you can warp around and be staff!" Graal could actually be a great game.
Problem is, you don't listen to what players try to tell you. Maybe if you did and corrected the problem Graal could be better. Take this into consideration.

[Bracca]

I have been playing graal for 4-5 years off and on every few weeks/months i leave because of some new thing they do that messes up the game and i loss interest. i invested a bit of money in graal over the past year on membership and gelats but because of the cost increase and change in membership purchase im not paying for anything anymore. ill go back 2 being a trial at the end of the month when my 1 year membership is over. There are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less players now than 3-4 years ago and the game is running the little they have left. really why is a class member only i understand cloths but classes...come on....

[DKH89]

I wouldnt say its dieing but the player count does seem very low.

Some people are saying it's because of school but I remember this time last year there were still over 90 on era alone and now its lucky to even get past 70.

But i dont know if id use the word dying

[DarkReaper0]

School is not a valid reason for this decline.

[DKH89]

It's more like people are gettin less interested because of the economy

[kia345]

Why is it that the only people really pushing the "GRAAL IS DEAD" crusade are the ones nobody really likes?

[Ziro_of_the_Turks]

Originally Posted by kia345

Why is it that the only people really pushing the "GRAAL IS DEAD" crusade are the ones nobody really likes?

Because the "body" you refer to, consisting of people who refuse to believe Graal needs to improve a whole lot more to reach a basic level of acceptable quality dislike the idea of admitting they're either wasting countless hours of their daily lives or that the work they're doing is for the purpose of saving a game rather than only improving it.

It is also worth noting that this "body" likely consists of no larger of a population than the people they are against as well as the 3rd party you fail to mention, which is worth praising the most; those who know Graal "needs saving" and work daily to do so. There are also members of your own "body" who, while refusing to believe the need to save the game, are doing great things to help the cause while they may simply think they're improving an already great game.

As for me... I just like to challenge my mind by tearing apart any fallacies I find in arguments of this forums. Not an easy task when people "win" arguments or end discussions with the least intelligent or reasonable reasons. Oh, and I like to think there will be something that interests me within gameplay... someday.

I'm also willing to accept that maybe I just "grew out" of Graal. But that would lead to a very simple question... "Is Graal fun for young adults and older teens?" (the people who can dish out money to support this game, more easily than the younger kids can)

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by DarkReaper0

School is not a valid reason for this decline.

Why not? I know that I'm developing and playing less because of school. I know that every year, people on Valikorlia leave for college and barely come on. Maybe you're either a burnout that doesn't care about school, or so smart that you don't have to apply yourself... but I know that my AP classes won't pass themselves.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Ziro_of_the_Turks

Because the "body" you refer to, consisting of people who refuse to believe Graal needs to improve a whole lot more to reach a basic level of acceptable quality dislike the idea of admitting they're either wasting countless hours of their daily lives or that the work they're doing is for the purpose of saving a game rather than only improving it.

It is also worth noting that this "body" likely consists of no larger of a population than the people they are against as well as the 3rd party you fail to mention, which is worth praising the most; those who know Graal "needs saving" and work daily to do so. There are also members of your own "body" who, while refusing to believe the need to save the game, are doing great things to help the cause while they may simply think they're improving an already great game.

As for me... I just like to challenge my mind by tearing apart any fallacies I find in arguments of this forums. Not an easy task when people "win" arguments or end discussions with the least intelligent or reasonable reasons. Oh, and I like to think there will be something that interests me within gameplay... someday.

I'm also willing to accept that maybe I just "grew out" of Graal. But that would lead to a very simple question... "Is Graal fun for young adults and older teens?" (the people who can dish out money to support this game, more easily than the younger kids can)

God I love you

[grim_squeaker_x]

Originally Posted by kia345

Why is it that the only people really pushing the "GRAAL IS DEAD" crusade are the ones nobody really likes?

uh?

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by kia345

Why is it that the only people really pushing the "GRAAL IS DEAD" crusade are the ones nobody really likes?

because its dead to them

[Kamaeru]

Listen, Graal died to me when Graal2001 died.

Consider the fact that we don't have Graal The Adventure, Graal2001, or any of the servers that used to be so great. Instead of them existing, they don't exist. They're not just going to pop up out of anywhere, either. We did a lot of work reviving Graal2001 multiple times. It's not going to just happen.

Graal is a case where I have extremely perplexing memories from the years ranging from 2000-2006. And by that I mean, in those wonderful years I had on Graal, I was constantly asking myself a question, "When is Graal going to die?", and this was a really crucial question for me!

Like, really, Graal is a real enigma. I've never experienced anything like it in my life. It struck me so fantastically that it definitely hypnotized me in those years. So a question of when will it end was a real brain buster.

Then one day Graal2001 basically died in my arms. I mean that in a literal sense. I spent as many days on that server as the only player as anyone possibly could have, that's for sure. Then we would get a revival going, and after so much time wishing I could see the map filled with little heads, it would happen! 300+ players on a dead server for a month straight.

And then it dies just as fast as it came back. This is the real fate of Graal.

[kia345]

Were they really that great, or are you just drunk with nostalgia?

[Codein]

I agree with xXZiroXx on this one. We should be trying to complete our projects rather than moaning.

[DrakilorP2P]

Since Graal is dead, let's stop posting and refrain from logging in again.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by kia345

Were they really that great, or are you just drunk with nostalgia?

Graal the Adventure definitely was, but so were servers like Rudora (although the majority would disagree with me) and Maloria. When Maloria went off, Graal personally died for me, but I'm still here trying to revive it, and I'll be damned to learn Resurrection Rank 6 just to be able to do it sooner or later.

[thesmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by Codein

I agree with xXZiroXx on this one. We should be trying to complete our projects rather than moaning.

Me too. I wish CJ would work with us not againist us.

[CABAL49]

I miss Shaded Legend, it's staff may have given up on it but it was still fun.

[Ziro_of_the_Turks]

Originally Posted by kia345

God I love you

<3

Originally Posted by grim_squeaker_x

uh?

This is obviously spam. So why does Sam ignore this stuff, but delete other posters' posts simply for not agreeing with him?

Originally Posted by Codein

I agree with xXZiroXx on this one. We should be trying to complete our projects rather than moaning.

I think we can all agree on this one. Except I don't develop, so I'd hate to tell you all to do your damn work instead of complaining.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Graal the Adventure definitely was, but so were servers like Rudora (although the majority would disagree with me) and Maloria. When Maloria went off, Graal personally died for me, but I'm still here trying to revive it, and I'll be damned to learn Resurrection Rank 6 just to be able to do it sooner or later.

I think the numbers accurately represent opinions. I was never into your server much, sorry, but wasn't the playercount usually lower than servers like N-Pulse (before UN came in and stole the show), or UN (after it stole the show from NP), and Graal the Adventure before... well, I don't really know what caused that server to lose players, but let's just say... before that happened. Anyways, the dominant servers likely succeed because they have something to suck you into the gameplay early enough and keep you there. Sounds simple enough, right? Well, sometimes this doesn't happen. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper to find awesomeness. So maybe that's why some servers keep a stable playercount, but don't reach the big numbers like the other ones. I'm guessing yours was one of those... ?

This is also to answer PoJo's question; yes, they were that great, at least the big names. The smaller names... maybe just depends on your preference.

[XdNemesisXd]

Playerworld servers is what makes Graal. Graal the Adventure was great and I thought Graal was great but everyone moans and the reason Graal is dying is because stubid updates. All updates I think have pushed alot of people away. Bomy Island has been in production for ever. Era, and UN if they ever go into there own game Graal willl be luckey to have a playercount 150+. There used to be servers that had like 200+ sometimes. Thoose were the fun times and everyone knew eachother. Know there is only like 300 people on and people just do whatever. The people who stayed with Graal are not always the lovers. I know people who loved Graal and the quit. When Graal The Advneture left I was like wow are you kidding me good bye Graal then I quit and came back to find out we have Graal##### for account names. I used to play when ym cousin showed this game and yes it was fun way back then. I came to realize this when there are about 50 post about how to make Graal better but none of them taken into conceration to Stefan and the rest of the Graal owners. Honstly how long has Bomy been being made?????? Relesse it please or relsse a beta so wwe can try it

[Admins]

Originally Posted by thesmoothcriminal

Me too. I wish CJ would work with us not againist us.

What do you mean by that?

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Ziro_of_the_Turks

I think the numbers accurately represent opinions. I was never into your server much, sorry, but wasn't the playercount usually lower than servers like N-Pulse (before UN came in and stole the show), or UN (after it stole the show from NP), and Graal the Adventure before... well, I don't really know what caused that server to lose players, but let's just say... before that happened. Anyways, the dominant servers likely succeed because they have something to suck you into the gameplay early enough and keep you there. Sounds simple enough, right? Well, sometimes this doesn't happen. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper to find awesomeness. So maybe that's why some servers keep a stable playercount, but don't reach the big numbers like the other ones. I'm guessing yours was one of those... ?

Maloria v2 (2004-2005) was always at the top 3, fighting with UN and Era about the playercount, until we ruined the server by competing about who could release the best updates. I can't say about v1, because I wasn't into Maloria at the time.

[thesmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by Stefan

What do you mean by that?

Well theres proof you guys read the forums but then why dont you respond to our concerns?

Theres plenty of valid points raised that you may have or may have not read but if your truly concerned (and i hope you are) then you need go through the many threads addressing the concerns of players towards CJ.

I really cant do everyone who posted issues justice but one thing that we would all like to see is our concerns and issues acknowledged and responded to. Maybe a weekly developers blog? a future plan for us to see? an FAQ for common criticisms of graal/CJ and why the decisions were made so we can understand.

This may sound like alot but if you want players to invest money and their time into graal then i think we should deserve some of this.
Communication between you guys and the player population is one thing i (and others) would like to see more of.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by thesmoothcriminal

Communication between you guys and the player population is one thing i (and others) would like to see more of.

Agreed.

[Elk]

It is the communities fault for what state graal is in now.
Don't blame CJ for not doing anything.
CJ is no gameforge, its a company for hosting purposes, not game development.

Stefan made the graalengine so that you guys can develop your own stuff, which is so awesome in my opinion, it helped me so much in my career you can't believe it, even tho I payed like over 700$ in the time I've been playing graal, it was totally worth it.
To whoever said that CJ has to get paid developers...can you imagine how much a developer is for 1 month? Too much,
for a rather small company like CJ. And you don't need to have paid developers if you have dedicated developers
that do work for free sometimes (like me). I only charge money off people outside of graal like companies or w/e, but not inside of graal,
because it's fun and I'm paying back what I got from it, more or less.

Also, referring to the communication issue between CJ and the Community...I don't know another game that has
excellent contact to the staff of a Game like Graal has, you can contact any of the Staffs and get a response after
1 day or less, when I used to have contact to Blizzard I had to wait a few days to get a response. Anyways, it's bad to compary Blizzard with CJ...
What I'm trying to say is, don't just blame CJ (god I talk so much nonsense!)
And CJ isn't working against you...if you want to contribute your skills and influence the games and other stuff,
why not just apply, show your skills if you are good enough.

You can't imagine how sad I was when the Graal 3D project was cancelled, more or less, just because there were no people around that could constantly create nice models =/...Stefan is doing so much for us but even he is limited

This thread is so stupid, someone delete it please -_-

[thesmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by Elk

It is the communities fault for what state graal is in now.
Don't blame CJ for not doing anything.
CJ is no gameforge, its a company for hosting purposes, not game development.

Ill respectfully disagree that its the communities fault that graal has a low player count. The engine is good, its Business skills not as good.

My view is that people are paying for both a server and engine to develop that server. As much as i love you Elk, CJ is a development company

Originally Posted by http://www.cyberjoueurs.com/

Cyberjoueurs is a game development company devoted to bringing multi-player games, platforms and tools to server the internet, set-top box, game console and portable device markets. We have more than 5 years experience developing RP and massively multiplayer games, and have developed solutions for ©Windows NT, LINUX, Java and ©Nintendo platforms.

Originally Posted by Elk

Stefan made the graalengine so that you guys can develop your own stuff, which is so awesome in my opinion, it helped me so much in my career you can't believe it, even tho I payed like over 700$ in the time I've been playing graal, it was totally worth it.

I do agree, it is great platform for development (the engine itself) but it is also a mmorpg and has a duty to those who pay for it like you.

Originally Posted by Elk

Also, referring to the communication issue between CJ and the Community...I don't know another game that has
excellent contact to the staff of a Game like Graal has, you can contact any of the Staffs and get a response after
1 day or less, when I used to have contact to Blizzard I had to wait a few days to get a response. Anyways, it's bad to compary Blizzard with CJ...
What I'm trying to say is, don't just blame CJ (god I talk so much nonsense!)

If you believe that then why do our issues go unheard? (or atleast unresponded to)

What is great about graal is that it isnt like other games, its small close community, why should it have to conform to the norm that players and staff dont communicate. Players/developers have a stake in graal, unlike most other mmorpgs, and therefore should be entitled to communication. If we pay to develop for graal shouldnt we have our concerns answered?

Originally Posted by Elk

And CJ isn't working against you...if you want to contribute your skills and influence the games and other stuff,
why not just apply, show your skills if you are good enough.

CJ can be seen as working against players/developers. Bad business decisions and lack of communication are my examples.

I would love to contribute, I have a double major in Business Management that i would kill to apply it to graal but i doubt CJ has much interest in that.

Originally Posted by Elk

This thread is so stupid, someone delete it please -_-

Well i think alot of players have legitimate concerns about whats happening with the game, especially those developing who have the right to inquire.

[Elk]

I don't know what degrees unixmad has but you can always give him advice about game development/management stuff...
He's pretty open to new stuff, but don't ever tell him to do something forcefully...don't want to state why

[Dean]

There we have a prime example of what causes most of the problems in Graal. People like Elk who really haven't got a clue, people who feel the need to give uneducated support for nothing more than recognition and other ulterior motives. You're the one who is causing the problems, because you really haven't got a clue but Stefan and Unixmad listen to you, because nobody likes to know they're doing wrong. It's not the community that is contributing to the problem, in fact they are the ones that are keeping this show running.

Graal was never intended to be a development platform or host and to say otherwise is just embarrassing. Back in the day when all we had was Classic, the level editor provided a way for the community to contribute, produce personal levels such as housing, and allow people to share their creations and creativity. The user-generated content was never intended to become a dependency for the game servers to progress, but it did. Graal is marketed as a game, not a development platform or hosting company.

Elk you really have contributed little to the game compared to most people, and those people that did contribute a huge portion of what makes the game semi-successful today have similar feelings to the majority of people in this thread. Perhaps that is because they're honest about the circumstances that both the community and developers are having to put up with these days, not saying what Stefan or Unixmad want to hear in order to worm their way into some kind of position. People like Antago, Konidias, Tyhm never had to do such things. The development for Graal was honest, the ideas were produced and the game grew. If there was a bad idea thrown into the mix, the community spoke about it, and the developers responded much like in every successful online game, but this no longer happens. In that respect the communication between administration, developer and playerbase is lost, yet you seem to think it is about talking to Stefan? Personally I don't think most people really care for that.

Stop sucking up because it encourages the horrible direction we are going in now, and if it does continue then the playercount is going to dry up fast. It is really not hard to see that the direction that Graal is heading in is not a positive one, and there is many opportunities to fix this but whether it will be is another thing. The players are not trying to promote some kind of bad aura on the forums, they are showing concern for a game that they play and so they should.

[Elk]

As if you knew me

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Elk

As if you knew me

Heh, let's see if someone credible can prove me wrong.