Rules of Scamming?

[xAzerothx]

A court system could work. Just rotate the jury every case. It shouldn't be bias then?

[Frankie]

Should people stealing lent items out be considered scamming?

"Scamming" has a different meaning these days. Basically, players look to borrow items, then don't return them. I think if we made scamming illegal, players are most likely going to lend their items out thinking that they can just run to staff and get them back. There's a small flaw in this. A player could give an item out to someone, and later decide that they want it back. When they ask for it back, the person declines. They run to us, saying that he let the guy BORROW the item. Then the other person that "borrowed" it, is PMing us that he gave it to him.

I honestly don't know what to do about "borrow" scams. Players do not get it in their head that they should just keep things to themselves.

Like Houdini said, scamming should be impossible.
If players use the item trade, they shouldn't be getting scammed.
If players contact GPs to do trades that they can't do with item trade (if they trade a car with other items or something) they shouldn't be getting scammed.

I think scamming should go in both ways then. If you don't use the tools provided to you to prevent you from getting scammed, why should we back you up? As far as other scams listed in option 1, using exploits and such, those would be illegal. This subject is getting really complicated.

Please refrain from insulting anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You don't need to flame anyone for it.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Should people stealing lent items out be considered scamming?

Yes, it's their own fault for lending the item out. Anyone with common sense will ask to trade for something of equal or greater value to hold. It would be hard to reverse as well, since they could claim the player gave it to them, or dropped it and started to punch it to death (lol), or any of various other excuses.

"Scamming" has a different meaning these days. Basically, players look to borrow items, then don't return them. I think if we made scamming illegal, players are most likely going to lend their items out thinking that they can just run to staff and get them back. There's a small flaw in this. A player could give an item out to someone, and later decide that they want it back. When they ask for it back, the person declines. They run to us, saying that he let the guy BORROW the item. Then the other person that "borrowed" it, is PMing us that he gave it to him.

It'd be too much of a mess to sort out. If you lend someone something, they could trade it fifty different times, and you can't prove that they were lending it, not giving it.

[Kappa00p2p]

Originally Posted by Yocas

In return for making scamming legal, I demand every level to be a PK-Zone please.

Huzzah!

[DarkRenji]

Im starting to see problems with this now,
such as a person sells a item for USD, then claims he gets scammed or such

[Ketama]

legalize ihit! yeah

dont criticize it

[Yocas]

Legalize it. Just add a topic on scammers in the tutorial. If worst comes to worst they could easily put a bounty on the scammer.

... too bad there isn't much of a penalty for deaths. Then again, if there were way less non-pk zones, bounty hunts wouldn't be a pain in the ass.

[Vulcan]

What about scams where an admin is watching the trade? Will it be legal to scam in these situations? Admins not being able to be scammed was never a "privilege". It was a result of the rule that said if an admin watches a scam, it can be reversed.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

Im starting to see problems with this now,
such as a person sells a item for USD, then claims he gets scammed or such

exactly.
scamming might be illegal, but that doesn't mean you should be able to lend your items out.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

What about scams where an admin is watching the trade? Will it be legal to scam in these situations?

This seems like a no-brainer. Of course if an admin is watching the trade and agrees that they will restore the items, you can not scam.

The only case an admin should be legal to scam is for their personal stuff, not when the admin is helping others.

[Yocas]

No admin should be needed to do a trade; what the hell? The only time they summon staff members is when they want to "borrow" or "try" one of their friend's guns. This usually ends up with the other player not giving back the and keeping it for themselves, which leads to the whole epidemic where staff have to look through the 3000 paged logs just to find out where the gun went.

It's "scams" like that that shouldn't even be investigated. If people were to drop lending their guns out, there would be less scams.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Crow

Side note: Should scamming be illegal after we've gone through this, I think there should be a court system, including judges, and so on, blah blah. Makes it somewhat interesting me thinks.

Agreed, I think there should be law firms and judges etc.

[Frankie]

there are too many scams that happen to have an active court system. we can't just have some court meeting every time someone is scammed. waste of time.

[DuBsTeRmAn]

If scamming would be illegal again, you have to hire 2 people to be 24h a day online....

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn

If scamming would be illegal again, you have to hire 2 people to be 24h a day online....

Or players could just not be idiots.

Yet, this is Era.

[Yocas]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

Or players could just not be idiots.

Finally, someone who understands.

There are people on Era that are stupid enough to fall for simple scams like this one.



When will people realize that anything that is drop-traded related is a SCAM.

[Understood]

Originally Posted by Yocas

Finally, someone who understands.

There are people on Era that are stupid enough to fall for simple scams like this one.

Man, I ALWAYS fall for that one =[

[cbk1994]

Part of the problem is people on Era are usually either:

• fools
• people who try to take advantage of fools

I don't think it's that bad on any other servers.

I lent a player at one of my events my AK-47. After the event, I called them back to get my gun, and they refused to give it to me (I'm staff on Era, so you'd think they might).

Never have I seen players like that, even on Utopia.

Originally Posted by Understood

Man, I ALWAYS fall for that one =[

[Yocas]

Originally Posted by Understood

Man, I ALWAYS fall for that one =[

Hand over your ETA badge please.

[Shotoo2]

The trade window exists for a reason.

[Frankie]

just don't give players the idea that if they lend their item through itemtrade that they are safe. guarantee players would pull that excuse lol

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by Frankie

just don't give players the idea that if they lend their item through itemtrade that they are safe. guarantee players would pull that excuse lol

they should just put their items on a fishing rod, so when they want them back they can just reel them in, sheesh

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Shotoo2

they should just put their items on a fishing rod, so when they want them back they can just reel them in, sheesh

Only works on GK, unfortunately.

[xAzerothx]

They should have the lending option like Runescape. Lolz

[Sowling]

Trueee

[Eagle11]

I'm kind of 50/50 with the whole scamming issue. I wouldn't mind seeing it illegal for a while

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Eagle11

I'm kind of 50/50 with the whole scamming issue. I wouldn't mind seeing it illegal for a while

How do you recommend enforcing it?

[Shotoo2]

Scamming is just one of many facets of Era's economy. We should just keep the whole "it's legal, but watch out for _______" thing.

[xAzerothx]

Originally Posted by Shotoo2

Scamming is just one of many facets of Era's economy. We should just keep the whole "it's legal, but watch out for _______" thing.

This. I don't think Era will last very long if scamming was made illegal.

Lol@tied polls

[DarkRenji]

So can we scam staff yet?

[Understood]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

So can we scam staff yet?

If I'm trading someone, I consider myself watching the trade.

[Frankie]

seeing as how I'm not staff anymore, the ideas and concepts in this thread are null.

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by Frankie

seeing as how I'm not staff anymore, the ideas and concepts in this thread are null.

not really

it's still a valid question

[Yocas]

I say leave it legal. Scamming is 10x worst in most games.

Games like Eve Online is a prime example. There are these player-made request where other players sign a contract in which they'll deliver some EXPENSIVE item to another base of theirs. They pay a small price to accept the mission but if they fail to deliver it, they'll have to pay 5x the price of the item. What most of the scammers did was set up an ambush somewhere for the unexpected deliverer and kill him so he'd have to pay them the money for failing.

Like I said, small garbage like drop trade scams is nothing compared to some games. People on Era just need to stop being a dumb*** and think for once before doing any kind of drop trade.

[natchez416]

What he said /\
Making scamming illegal is like the war on drugs.
Just a wast of time trying to enforce it.
causes to many problems.

Plus I think scamming is part of the game at this point.
I like that aspect of the game, Even though I've never scammed anyone.

[DarkRenji]

If scamming is legal, It needs to be all legal, AKA staff should be able to be scammed.

[Shotoo2]

This poll has essentially deadlocked.

I'd like to keep scamming legal under the current rules and regulations.