Rules of Scamming?

[Frankie]

Option 1
Keep scamming legal.

-Any scam involving the following will be reversed:

• Using exploits/glitches to scam
• Using rights (or lying about them) in a business to scam
• Using rights (or lying about them) in a gang to scam
• Using an ET/FAQ tag to scam

Anything else is fair game.
*This list can be modified at any time needed
*Scamming admins will be legal

Option 2 (as stated by Tig)
Make scamming illegal.

*When reporting a scam, we will not be able to guarantee your items/money back. We can promise that a reasonable amount of effort will be made to retrieve your stolen possessions. This is because once your items/money are in someone else's hands, they have the ability to do anything with it. It can get to the point where there are so many different trades that need to be reversed and nothing can be done about it.

Anyone caught scamming will be given a minimum of an hour jail time, no matter if the items/money are returned or not. If they receive multiple jail sentences for scamming, they will then be given a 7 day ban. Further infractions involving scamming can and will result in higher ban time.

--------

Please vote wisely. Although making scamming illegal sounds like a good plan, we have to be real here. Things can get extremely complicated and we just can not do anything about it. I don't want people voting option 2 without knowing the full plan.

[xAzerothx]

****ing stupid giving scammed staff members their items back but not the players. The reason Era's so successful......

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Frankie

-Any scam involving the following will be reversed:

• Scamming an admin

That's got be the biggest piece of **** rule I've ever heard. The argument for scamming to remain legal on Era is that people get scammed because they're stupid. That includes Admins, it's their own fault they got scammed.

[Frankie]

It's a privilege of being an admin. It's not stupid at all.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Frankie

It's a privilege of being an admin. It's not stupid at all.

So being staff makes up for you being idiot? Wow, that's a great privilege alright. Or, a better idea: Why hire admins stupid enough to get scammed?

[Frankie]

It's not so much that they are stupid enough to get scammed. Admins know that if they are scammed they can get the scam reversed. I'm sure if we made it legal to scam admins, none of us would be getting scammed :P Don't insult our intelligence, thanks.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Don't insult our intelligence, thanks.

I will, because that's the case for scamming: Stupid people deserve to get scammed.

If the admins can turn around and reverse a scam on themselves, why can't they go out and do the same for other players?

[xAzerothx]

Originally Posted by kia345

I will, because that's the case for scamming: Stupid people deserve to get scammed.

If the admins can turn around and reverse a scam on themselves, why can't they go out and do the same for other players?

This. ^

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by kia345

why can't they go out and do the same for other players?

that's pretty much what option 2 is saying. I made this poll willing to change the rules. I can argue both sides, that's the thing.

if you don't agree with option 1, then don't vote for it.

[Frankie]

okay. changed it. if scamming is going to be legal, scamming admins will be fair game. the other points though I think we can agree is reasonable.

[knightfire35]

I would say leave it how it is, you don't want to make players mad for the sake of a few people. The way I see it, if you get scammed it's your fault. I personally have not been scammed.

[Nataxo]

i think Era will lose popularity if scamming gets illegal...

[Frankie]

it's an effort to make the community a bit better.

[xAzerothx]

I'm ok with scamming being legal but staff should not get special treatment because they're ignornant.

[kia345]

It should be either completely illegal, even on staff, or completely legal. Don't blur the line at admins.

[Tigairius]

I'm sure we've all been scammed before. Everyone remembers the first time they get scammed, it's a horrible feeling to lose something you have worked hard to get. It would be nice to have a staff member there to back you up, at least the first few times it happens. Era has one of the shadiest, dirtiest communities on Graal and it needs to be cleaned up. One step in cleaning up the community is to make reasonable effort to reverse scams.

Some people might say "this person is so stupid to get scammed, etc" and "it's unfair that some people would get restored and some wouldn't."

That's what I'd like to see changed. It shouldn't be "this person is stupid for being scammed," it should be, "this person is stupid for scamming."

The rule would only allow a person to get restored 2-3 times before they are finally just blocked from being restored from scams, so essentially the person will still learn their lesson, "oh no, I'm getting close to my limit."

It is not unfair that some people would get restored and others would not get restored, because it's fair in the sense that everyone would get a chance at having their case investigated. Just like everyone who enters the lottery has a fair chance at winning it, not everyone can win, or a murder case can be investigated, but there's no guarantee that the detectives will solve the case. At least this gives some people the chance to get their item restored, rather than no effort for anyone to be restored what-so-ever.

The person who scams someone would get banned or jailed for scamming, and if the item couldn't be restored, the person would still have to pay the consequence of jail/ban.

Someone said, "well if scamming is illegal then people will be more trusting of others and more people will get scammed." This isn't true, in the sense that scammers would know they would get banned/jailed and the item would probably get restored, and it would be a lost cause to scam. This would create a cleaner, and more friendly atmosphere for Era.

This is just a single step for a better community in Era. We can all play our part in improving the community, but it should at least start here, with a few rule adjustments. Scamming should not be a part of game play, and you shouldn't have to scam to enjoy your game.

[Frankie]

it's set in stone that scamming admins will be legal under option 1. please stop arguing about it now lol :P

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Frankie

"Hi I'd like you opinions on how things should be to improve Era. Only you're limited to two preset choices set by Era's staff."

You won't improve the server at all doing things like that

[Frankie]

either scamming is legal or not. that's 2 options, hence why the poll is only 2 options. it has nothing to do with limitation.

any further posts that do not relate to the discussion will be deleted.

[Yocas]

I actually don't blame them for making scamming legal. It gets REALLY repetitive and irritating having to go through the trade and drop logs to see who scammed whose gun. There have been people that have been scammed more than once in a week. People need to stop being gullible and going for these dumb drop trades.

[DarkRenji]

Im a bit concerned on Option 1, why dose it say "useing FAQ/ET tag to scam will be revsered" but it doesnt say anything about GP/LATs so on scamming?

[Frankie]

should admins (as players) be able to scam? if you guys expect to be able to scam admins wouldn't it be fair to let them scam you? I'm surprised I didn't think of this earlier. It's something to think about.

I'm sure if I scammed a player, they would be in the support center in a second flat filling out a ticket on me, but then you guys think it's right to be able to scam me. :P

I think I might put the scamming admins legalized option on hold because I think I hold a valid argument here.

[FreezeBurnX]

Originally Posted by Frankie

should admins (as players) be able to scam? if you guys expect to be able to scam admins wouldn't it be fair to let them scam you? I'm surprised I didn't think of this earlier. It's something to think about.

I'm sure if I scammed a player, they would be in the support center in a second flat filling out a ticket on me, but then you guys think it's right to be able to scam me. :P

I think I might put the scamming admins legalized option on hold because I think I hold a valid argument here.

Seriously, what kind of point is this? Staff scamming is clearly using their image to scam. I mean, staff is suppose to be symbol of what is correct. Players trust staff, they would never expect a staff would scam them, this is a completely different scenario.
As Tigairius stated, there's clearly an inversion of values here. You're not dumb if you got scammed, you're dumb if you're a scammer. It's very sad that people lend their trust and item and end without any of those. Again, as Tigairius said, everyone was once a beginner and know how it feels when you get scammed. But I don't agree on his solution, I think this can result in abuses. I mean, who would keep the count on this? People would get on other accounts that did not exceed the quota just to "safely" lend an item. I believe scamming should be legal, there is no way staff can keep track of what was traded. Sometimes it might be hard even to determine if something was really a scam, how can you know if someone traded an Uzi for a Handgun but the deal was actually an Uzi for two Handguns?

There's no way to really forbid scamming, but when I used to play there was the mall and there was a trading system, this information just needs to come to all newbies.

I believe that there is nothing that can be done related to item lending scamming. This is not a trade at all. Do this at your own risk, staff should not have to babysit players.

[Understood]

If a staff member gets scammed, I highly doubt they won't do anything about it

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Frankie

should admins (as players) be able to scam? if you guys expect to be able to scam admins wouldn't it be fair to let them scam you? I'm surprised I didn't think of this earlier. It's something to think about.

I'm sure if I scammed a player, they would be in the support center in a second flat filling out a ticket on me, but then you guys think it's right to be able to scam me. :P

I think I might put the scamming admins legalized option on hold because I think I hold a valid argument here.

Administrators should not scam; if you asked someone for their gun to "test it out", they would most likely give it to you, assuming that they'd get it back since you're an administrator.

I can see it being illegal to scam staff with official business such as testing, but in personal items, they should well know how to protect their own items.

[DarkRenji]

Let admins scam players.

So long as they dont use any of there staff powers, tags and such.

And let players know ahead of time via News or such.

If we can scam them its fair they can scam us... as long as its a legit scam ( sounds wierd saying that lol )

But I'd rather have it where if players can scam players, then everone should be able to scam everone. z.z

[Frankie]

honestly, I would still tell my staff not to scam. I'm just trying to see what you guys think.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Frankie

honestly, I would still tell my staff not to scam. I'm just trying to see what you guys think.

Admins are the face of the server. They need to respectable enough to not scam and smart enough to not get scammed.

[xAzerothx]

If you haven't illegalized scamming by now you can't change that. If you change it so scamming's illegal you'll probably lose quite a few players. I only disagree with the fact that admins can retrieve their equipment back if they were to get scammed.

Please refer to the quote.

Originally Posted by kia345

Admins are the face of the server. They need to respectable enough to not scam and smart enough to not get scammed.

[Yocas]

In return for making scamming legal, I demand every level to be a PK-Zone please.

[Kappa00p2p]

Originally Posted by Yocas

In return for making scamming legal, I demand every level to be a PK-Zone please.

Huzzah!

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

If you haven't illegalized scamming by now you can't change that. If you change it so scamming's illegal you'll probably lose quite a few players. I only disagree with the fact that admins can retrieve their equipment back if they were to get scammed.

Please refer to the quote.

You think newb's who just start, dig/pick flowers for hours to get a daewoo or such, then gets that scammed wants to stay and play?

[Darlene159]

Scamming shouldnt be legal on any server

[comet]

I can't believe Era made scamming legal in the first place.
Make it illegal, please.

[xAzerothx]

What about the current players? If the don't like a new update wouldn't they just leave?

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

What about the current players? If the don't like a new update wouldn't they just leave?

Well era needs a better community, And once you hooked on graal I dont think a little update will make you leave, and who would this update piss off? The scammers? nobody would miss them anyway D:

Scammers will pretend to be your friend for MONTHS and wait for there chance to get your items, its sad really.

[xAzerothx]

So you think one update will change the community?

[[email protected]]

Option one, only 'Using exploits/glitches to scam' reversible.

[thesmoothcriminal]

It should be legal, it will become too hard to manage. And people could scam staff by claiming someone else scammed then when they didnt.

More importantly it takes staff time away from development.

Just put a sign up on the unstick me detailing common scams. That way players know and the responsibility is on them.

[Crow]

Option 1. It's impossible to manage option 2, and there are tons of warnings which help in not getting scammed. It's usually your fault if you got scammed without any exploits/glitches/abuse.
I think staff members should not scam, be it on or off tag. The staff team represents, or should represent, the higher power on a server. Shouldn't be ruined. Unsure about the "can people scam staff members" thingy. People will ***** about it if it's not possible, so I'm not going to say anything concerning that.

Side note: Should scamming be illegal after we've gone through this, I think there should be a court system, including judges, and so on, blah blah. Makes it somewhat interesting me thinks.