Graal Kingdoms' Current Status: Terrible

[DustyPorViva]

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Googi

I don't really understand what Stefan would have to lose by publicly releasing a lot of 2K2's source code (though I can see why he would want to keep SOME of it secret if he thinks it could be used to develop exploits). It's not like he's some petty playerworld owner. Even if playerworlds "steal" some of the code, it's hard to see how Stefan loses out given 2K2's current situation, and he would stand to gain if it results in an improvement in the quality of playerworlds.

Complete agreement. What could he lose by releasing code?

There is really no way to work on GK's scripts (I was asked to make a treasure chest which logged actions) without this. How can I possibly make this chest without access to the main chess class?

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

Excuse me, but I don't believe anyone ever said developing is necessary in this thread.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well, I don't get why people think managers need to be able to do the work in order to manage it. A management is a management position, not a development position.
It helps to be able to develop, but it's far from necessary.

Where does it say that in my post Dusty? I never said that.

This is the second or third post I've seen where you've replied without reading what I wrote

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Complete agreement. What could he lose by releasing code?

There is really no way to work on GK's scripts (I was asked to make a treasure chest which logged actions) without this. How can I possibly make this chest without access to the main chess class?

When I was working for Debug I was given access to all the scripts I needed o.o

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

but he can't do anything except tell people to do and make graphics. It's not like he can show anyone by example.

Sorry, Robin, your post just happened to pop in between my own and Tig's.

[ImmortalHuman]

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.

Robin are you the Robin I worked with? (if you haven't noticed Im iSplash)

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

What're you saying? Stephen has a good attitude?

actually stephen has a good attitude
he just doesnt use it often
stephen would do well as manager
so would pojo .

[Robin]

Originally Posted by ImmortalHuman

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.

Robin are you the Robin I worked with? (if you haven't noticed Im iSplash)

Yes, and why are you going around like that's something to be proud of?

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

he just doesnt use it often

Exactly. "Doesn't use it often" could mean as much as never uses it at all, so that would make him virtually useless and a bad attitude.

[ImmortalHuman]

Originally Posted by Robin

Yes, and why are you going around like that's something to be proud of?

I'm not lol but it seems like to everyone its a big deal

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Robin

When I was working for Debug I was given access to all the scripts I needed o.o

As far as I know, this doesn't happen at all anymore.

Originally Posted by ImmortalHuman

Like I was talking about with Tig on AIM,Stefan and Unixmad Implemented Crossfire's mud into GK meaning that a good amount of the npc's on gk that haven't been recoded sources are available to the public.iSplash)

Of course they were rescripted ... Crossfire's code couldn't just be pasted and work with GS2.

[Robin]

Actually GK was done before the days of GS2 :P

[DustyPorViva]

Wow, this thread has had more action than the Graal forums have had in a few months.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Robin

Actually GK was done before the days of GS2 :P

But it's been rescripted, surely?

And in any case, Crossfire couldn't just be pasted into GS1.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by cbkbud

But it's been rescripted, surely?

And in any case, Crossfire couldn't just be pasted into GS1.

Of course not.

Infact other than the mud functions Stefan put in serverside, I don't think any of those scripts have anything to do with crossfire.

The only thing about Crossfire is the archtypes of the items/weapons/etc

If you've ever played Crossfire, you know it's crap. :P

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Robin

If you've ever played Crossfire, you know it's crap. :P

Yes, I know. It has a more active development than GK though, at least from what I have seen.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

What're you saying? Stephen has a good attitude? This isn't about me becoming manager anyways. I don't care if Stephen becomes manager, but he can't do anything except tell people to do and make graphics. It's not like he can show anyone by example. Flinging around your opinion is meaningless, all negative views are based purely on opinion. Are you saying that you'd rather hire someone with a happy-go-lucky ignorant attitude with no skills or brains? Yeah, that'll help a lot. Let me let you in on a little secret: you don't know what's best for GK, neither does Stephen, and neither do I, but I guarantee you Stephen is more lost than I am. It's pretty obvious to me that Stephen has already managed to feed you slander and coax you in to believing him, which is fine, because that's like joining a cult. Normally I wouldn't even begin to defend this as much as I have, but the last thing GK needs is exactly what we have now: someone who is foul, ignorant and power-crazy. Of course, since this community has already done so much good for GK, you guys are free to decide on your own.

It strikes me as slightly incredulous to call another person a "cult leader" for being reasonible and having people agree.

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Yes, I know. It has a more active development than GK though, at least from what I have seen.

Sadly anyone can participate in rederick - where only developers, talented ones at that, can participate in development on GK.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Exactly. "Doesn't use it often" could mean as much as never uses it at all, so that would make him virtually useless and a bad attitude.

I'm not really sure what difference my "attitude" makes. It's not like I go around telling everyone off. I'm only a problem for people who are being a problem for me - which I think is perfectly reasonible.

It just seems you're upset at me for some reason, and are trying to slander me.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

virtually useless and a bad attitude.

AND badass .

[Ravenblade1979]

*finishes reading*

I would hate to say this despite mine and Tigs past.....Tig has what it takes to be Manager of GK.
Tig gets work done, help people, listens to suggestions, has fresh new ideas and can do the work on his own.

Sorry stephen but I would choose him over you. In all the time that I been around since Tig got staff he's been working his butt off for GK. Since you got King of dustari you been barely active. Don't even know how active you were on debug but I login in one day and your paranoid that I am going to give away info about what you were doing.

1) I was on there to talk to stefan
2) I didn't care what you were doing

You are too paranoid to have as manager. I would at least listen to Tig. You I would just laugh at and quit on the spot.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

rederick

F...rederick?

OH, you mean rhetoric.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not really sure what difference my "attitude" makes. It's not like I go around

You know, this thread has made it blatantly obvious to me that you're just interested in gaining power on GK, rather than helping it. I don't care if you become manager, I just want to see GK in a better place. For the past month or two I've seen you roam around these forums carefully plotting little bits and pieces of slander against me, ultimately trying to get people against me because I guess you feel threatened by my presence on GK. I don't even want Bjorn removed, I don't care, I just want GK to survive and become a better place, if that means you become manager for that to happen, then fine, but the fact that there isn't a large array of willing, competent developers (as you've stated several times) worries me, since the only thing you can do is graphics. A lot of working on GK involves being able to do everything on your own due to lack of developers. I guess I just worry about the fact that you're more interested in controlling than contributing...

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

You know, this thread has made it blatantly obvious to me that you're just interested in gaining power on GK, rather than helping it. I don't care if you become manager, I just want to see GK in a better place. For the past month or two I've seen you roam around these forums carefully plotting little bits and pieces of slander against me

I'm not really sure what you're getting at - first you call me a cult leader for talking sensibly and having some people agree with me, now you're acting very paranoid.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

ultimately trying to get people against me because I guess you feel threatened by my presence on GK.

The only thing I feel threatened by is my rapidly decreasing patience You keep saying these literally crazy things.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I don't even want Bjorn removed, I don't care, I just want GK to survive and become a better place, if that means you become manager for that to happen, then fine

As it stands - I do want him removed. However, I hold the same opinion towards my work as I do a new manager... I don't want just anyone appointed for the illusion of progress. I can't think of anyone competent enough to manage aside from myself or you. Seeing as you have stopped all active development for nearly a month now without reason I simply guessed you were no longer interested.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

but the fact that there isn't a large array of willing, competent developers (as you've stated several times) worries me, since the only thing you can do is graphics.

It would appear my previous guess was right - you do seem to be slandering me. It should be acknowledged that while others can do more than just graphics it is not my graphical talent which make me want to develop - it is the fairly indepth storyline I have been working on in additional to immediate "fun" for the general GK populace. This immediate "fun" can be explained by Robin if he feels like getting involved in the conversation, although I had hoped to release it as a surpse.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

A lot of working on GK involves being able to do everything on your own due to lack of developers.

This is true, and I have made several efforts to learn scripting - Stefan has been nothing short of a nuissance for me in this area as he has refused to give me access even to those scripts we worked on together.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I don't even want Bjorn removed, I don't care, I just want GK to survive and become a better place, if that means you become manager for that to happen, then fine

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I guess I just worry about the fact that you're more interested in controlling than contributing...

These two statements, from the same post, are conflicting - while one suggests I would make GK a "better place" (presumably through development) the others inclines the reader to believe I have nothing but sitting on my butt and leaving a christmas tree with a damned elf beside it on main well after any christmas festivities.

I guess I was really quite right when I guessed you were only interested in slandering me - where previously you said you could think of several reasons for Stefan to neglect my access to scripts - but when asked declined to list them. And now you make a post which ignores the problem at hand


The Inactivity of GK - for the sake attacking me.





I believe I've shown that this is all nonsensical mud throwing, but the fun is over - we need to address the problem at hand (inactivity of development on GK). We need for Stefan to either manage the server until a suitable manager is found or find a new one. Not for the sake of simply having a manager but for having someone actively overseeing the development within GK.

This has been an excellent thread so far, and should not be derailed into petty insults.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Stephen

This has been an excellent thread so far, and should not be derailed into petty insults.

I don't see how it's been derailed nor do I see any insults anywhere in this thread.

[Googi]

As far as I can tell, Stephen seems most interested in shaping 2K2 to match his desires of what he most wants the server to be like, as opposed to what the players most want the the server to be like or what is the most marketable, although he's probably convinced himself that those are the same thing.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the same could be true of Tig as well.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Googi

As far as I can tell, Stephen seems most interested in shaping 2K2 to match his desires of what he most wants the server to be like, as opposed to what the players most want the the server to be like or what is the most marketable, although he's probably convinced himself that those are the same thing.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the same could be true of Tig as well.

The players have consistently shown that they do not know what they want. Obviously any production released would receive feedback - you are familiar with this term, si?

[Ravenblade1979]

Tig4Manager

all I have to say.

[Robin]

I think this thread has gone far enough. Okay, GK is dead right now. But does anyone know what prompted this? Would it not be better to start a thread to see what players actually want?

Ask these questions:
What makes other servers successful?
Why is no one visiting GK anymore?
What happened to prompt this?

Instead of arguing amongst yourselves, why not just make some good ideas, and present them to Stefan. I think Stefan is very close to the development of GK in particular and Bjorn active or not, Stefan is the one to go to, if you want to discuss change.

I'm sorry but I can't stand to see my friends arguing anymore

[Hatred89]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

*finishes reading*

I know right xP

Originally Posted by Robin

I've still got his AIM on my list yet he's never online, so I'm forced to assume he's either inactive or quit.

Alright I know this reaches back a far distance in posts but I just want to say he is on AIM about 3 times a week or more you just have to be on at the right time. I would say if your in high school in the US you won't ever see him online though .

Originally Posted by Robin

I think this thread has gone far enough. Okay, GK is dead right now. But does anyone know what prompted this? Would it not be better to start a thread to see what players actually want?

Ask these questions:
What makes other servers successful?
Why is no one visiting GK anymore?
What happened to prompt this?

Instead of arguing amongst yourselves, why not just make some good ideas, and present them to Stefan. I think Stefan is very close to the development of GK in particular and Bjorn active or not, Stefan is the one to go to, if you want to discuss change.

What makes other servers successful?
Maybe the fact that besides zone when you pay yearly you get a bundle of servers and not just one or the players already have unlimited classic access.

Why is no one visiting GK anymore?
Grinding on the same monsters every day gets boring and after you reach level 110 there isn't much to do anymore. You could go level up other things but then we are just back to grinding again.... Also the fact that no one wants to log on GK if no one else is on GK keeping a constant low player count. We need something to motivate players to log on GK even if there is no one on.

What happened to prompt this?
College finals in the US are this month and I assume High school finals are next month so players have been busy with school I assume.

I mean there is quite a bit of of problems I didn't even list but point is we could use a active manager to solve these problems.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Tig4Manager...

I rather think the hell would get frozen before that happens.

[Crimson2005]

Originally Posted by Sam

I rather think the hell would get frozen before that happens.

*****

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The players have consistently shown that they do not know what they want. Obviously any production released would receive feedback - you are familiar with this term, si?

This is not an excuse to do whatever you want. It's a reason to examine people's behaviour and try to figure out why players play the games they do. To begin with, trying to use a storyline to attract/retain players is extremely stupid. It's even stupider than trying to use traditional quests. Storylines belong in traditional console RPGs, not MMOs. What MMO has ever attracted or retained players using storyline? Storyline is essentially a method of trying to force the players to do what you want rather than letting them do what they want, and by their nature MMOs can't compete with console RPGs in terms of storyline anyways.

[lordbosh]

Originally Posted by Sam

I rather think the hell would get frozen before that happens.

Very professional.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Sam

I rather think the hell would get frozen before that happens.

Oh, you still exist? You're right, lets make you manager.

[Hatred89]

Doesn't look like this thread is even going anywhere.

[Robin]

Who is Sam? Srsly

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Googi

This is not an excuse to do whatever you want. It's a reason to examine people's behaviour and try to figure out why players play the games they do. To begin with, trying to use a storyline to attract/retain players is extremely stupid. It's even stupider than trying to use traditional quests. Storylines belong in traditional console RPGs, not MMOs. What MMO has ever attracted or retained players using storyline? Storyline is essentially a method of trying to force the players to do what you want rather than letting them do what they want, and by their nature MMOs can't compete with console RPGs in terms of storyline anyways.

As I said I would be relying on feedback - which you get plenty of on Graal. Your storyline point is moot; I'm not approaching it in the tradtional sense for the exact reason you pointed out - which I've already said I do not like. It's not typical for you make posts which haven't been considered, which strikes me as odd.

Originally Posted by Robin

Instead of arguing amongst yourselves, why not just make some good ideas, and present them to Stefan. I think Stefan is very close to the development of GK in particular and Bjorn active or not, Stefan is the one to go to, if you want to discuss change.

It's very patronizing to strole into a situation which has been going on for the last 7 months and assume these rudimentary tasks have not already been done. Especially when, with the slightest of research, you would see that they have been done.

I will do the same, so you can understand how annoyed I feel.

You should always think before you post! Here are some excellent rules to follow!

• Do some research!
• Consider the benefits or shortcomings of the information gathered via research!
• Get to know the situation before you come to a conclusion!
• Do not make wordly statements without following the above steps!

I think patronizing describes the feeling.

[Crimson2005]

Originally Posted by Hatred89

Doesn't look like this thread is even going anywhere.

None of these threads do. WASTE OF TIME. Same **** different thread.

[Ravenblade1979]

Sam is staff on gk.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

As I said I would be relying on feedback - which you get plenty of on Graal. Your storyline point is moot; I'm not approaching it in the tradtional sense for the exact reason you pointed out - which I've already said I do not like. It's not typical for you make posts which haven't been considered, which strikes me as odd.

It's very patronizing to strole into a situation which has been going on for the last 7 months and assume these rudimentary tasks have not already been done. Especially when, with the slightest of research, you would see that they have been done.

I will do the same, so you can understand how annoyed I feel.

You should always think before you post! Here are some excellent rules to follow!

• Do some research!
• Consider the benefits or shortcomings of the information gathered via research!
• Get to know the situation before you come to a conclusion!
• Do not make wordly statements without following the above steps!

I think patronizing describes the feeling.

Not the person you want to try and patronize really am I Stephen?

I'm not picking sides. You're on your own, both of you.

[xAzerothx]

im wit tig yo