Graal Free To Play on Facebook and Android

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Sonniku4

One of the high up people that run Graal has told me directly... Mobile gaming is the future. PCs will become obsolete.

Staff are not necessarily "high up" and they don't really "run Graal." They are just players like you that got a staff position for whatever reason. They might actually be good at their job, but that doesn't really mean they're really in the know. There are only two people that really work for Graal(maybe a very small handful of others that get pay from them, but they're not in on the business--they're not actually employees) and that's Stefan and Unixmad. So unless it was either one of them, take it with a grain of salt.

And... of course PC Graal is dying. They ****ing abandoned it. Graal was getting no attention for years. The only reason it's getting any attention now is to meet the needs of improving the iPhone version.

Originally Posted by Sonniku4

Why should they care about their first fans playerbase and contributors, especially those cheapskate Lifetime Classic players? There is simply no money to be made.

They don't have to, but businesses that treat their fans/loyal customers better do better. It can also make people more willing to pay for something even if they don't feel the price justifies the content. Also, just because people have lifetime Classic doesn't mean they're cheap. Graal hasn't been worth paying for in a long time, it's not our fault. You also fail to mention that the PC Graal has a vastly different pay system than the iPhone/Facebook version. Those versions let you basically play for free and let you pay for benefits. The PC version makes you pay a large fee($60) for a subscription to play a few servers with hardly any decent content, small playerbase(especially compared to the iPhone servers), and a lot of times, horrible staff. That's not even taking into account the costs to rent a server. Ya, before iPhone was around people who cared about Graal was paying out the ass for little content, while most people who play iPhone/Facebook play it for free or shell out a few dollars. Ya, we're the cheap ones.

[Sonniku4]

Originally Posted by MattKan

That is entirely untrue. Though mobile gaming has certainly picked up, PC games are simply more involved and more fun. I honestly don't want to see a day where all my favorite PC games are shrunk to the screen of the iPhone, (etc.) and if Graal Administration thinks that PC games our dying out, well, I disagree. PC Graal is "dying out" per say, (of course Graal will never truly die out at this rate, but you get the idea) but that is because no more effort is being put into it by the staff team.

Well I don't agree with him either, but just quoting what he said... and yeah, we're seeing Graal PC sort of wilting, gradually, because of the lack of involvement and attention given to it.

Imagine they actually DID mention Graal PC in those iPhone and Facebook clients, it would be great. Not even saying that they should directly develop for Graal PC again. We'd get a big playerbase on here again and perhaps there would be even more profit for the company. Why play with tiny touchscreen keys and a monitor? Yes, eventually we'll be able to connect a monitor to our phone, but by then we'll also have internet and processing power in phones that is so powerful that we'll be able to combine the PC crowd with the Mobile crowd.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Staff are not necessarily "high up" and they don't really "run Graal." They are just players like you that got a staff position for whatever reason. They might actually be good at their job, but that doesn't really mean they're really in the know.

I'm not talking about a manager of a server.
I'm talking about the guys that are running ALL of the servers. The guys in charge of the business and the money.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

1. They don't have to, but businesses that treat their fans/loyal customers better do better.
2. Also, just because people have lifetime Classic doesn't mean they're cheap. Graal hasn't been worth paying for in a long time, it's not our fault.

1. So freaking true.
2. Myself being one, also true. I payed Graal and then even paid for Gold time after, when it was awesome enough.

The thing is that I don't disagree with any of you, I'm just putting their perspective on the table, as best as I can interpret it.

[Rave_J]

lol graal cant take farmvill or cityvill due Zynga is a whole lot bigger as a company then eurocenter thats like a privite computer company to take on apple or microsoft


but i think unximad and stefan needs to sit down
honestly and make a decision
to keep graal online and start fresh and actually try to improve the game or go cut there lost on graal an
release (meaning selling it) as a prebuilt platform game engine

[Sonniku4]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

but i think unximad and stefan needs to sit down
honestly and make a decision
to keep graal online and start fresh and actually try to improve the game or go cut there lost on graal an
release (meaning selling it) as a prebuilt platform game engine

If I were them...

• Continue building Graal Facebook.
• Continue building Graal iPhone.
• Promote Graal PC and make it worth paying for.
  - Study the economic systems of other video games, such as TF2 and other ones that have a cheap game platform with pay for perks that you can get anyway through grinding, then see how that sort of economy can make Graal even more profitable.
• Attempt to connect Graal Facebook with Graal PC (maybe they can share whole servers).
• When technology allows, connect Graal Mobile as well.

[DustyPorViva]

They want to convert the current servers over to a similar system that iPhone/Facebook is using but they're kind of leaving that in the hands of the server managers... A few servers already have, like Zodiac. But until it's all done they can't really advertise it like that.

[Sonniku4]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

They want to convert the current servers over to a similar system that iPhone/Facebook is using but they're kind of leaving that in the hands of the server managers... A few servers already have, like Zodiac. But until it's all done they can't really advertise it like that.

Hmm, can you elaborate further?
Systems as in a economy system and such similar to what iP and FB are doing?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Sonniku4

Hmm, can you elaborate further?
Systems as in a economy system and such similar to what iP and FB are doing?

Removing the trial(observer) limitations, getting rid of subscriptions, and letting people pay gralats to buy stuff.

There's also the problem though that most of the servers currently on the PC don't have gralats as an in-game currency, and that there's no way to securely integrate them(when you're converting currency, eventually it will let staff be able to spawn it, which would mean loss of revenue for Stefan and Co since that's their only means of income with this system). The appeal of iPhone Classic is that if you work hard enough you don't have to shell out real money.

How they plan to overcome this I don't know... then again I guess Era iPhone is doing something about it since they don't have Gralats in-game.

[Sonniku4]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Removing the trial(observer) limitations, getting rid of subscriptions, and letting people pay gralats to buy stuff.

Boy will that be a breath of fresh air.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

There's also the problem though that most of the servers currently on the PC don't have gralats as an in-game currency, and that there's no way to securely integrate them(when you're converting currency, eventually it will let staff be able to spawn it, which would mean loss of revenue for Stefan and Co since that's their only means of income with this system).

Very interesting conundrum. And nearly every server has a colorful history of staff abuse spawning and script spawning. The only answer I can come up with is that there would actually have to be spawn logs sent to Stefan or the others whenever the staff (or script) creates something that is normally sold for Gelat. There's a lot of micromanagement that has to be done and a lot of systems rebuilt. But I hope they don't give up on us...

[Rave_J]

honestly
if i was unximad
i would find a investor
and say hey i came this far on my own ect
now with ur money u invest were planing on branching blah blah blah whatever

honestly i think unximad and stefan wants to take that next step but i dont think they can do it on there own. Next step meaning make graal better platforms,better games actually have a prepaid card in the stores ect
but they would prob would have to sell some of the company like 35% at least maybe more depending how much he needs

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Sonniku4

Very interesting conundrum. And nearly every server has a colorful history of staff abuse spawning and script spawning. The only answer I can come up with is that there would actually have to be spawn logs sent to Stefan or the others whenever the staff (or script) creates something that is normally sold for Gelat. There's a lot of micromanagement that has to be done and a lot of systems rebuilt. But I hope they don't give up on us...

Servers that use their own currency are able to do so because they have scripted their own currency. There's no way Stefan could really middle-man scripts like because servers need to be able to work with currency. What comes to mind is Stefan laying out a list of predefined secure variables and functions for each server that work together and log it for him. Though the problem with that is the sheer about of work to rescript everything, and the bugs that could arise from missed scripts... but like I said it'd be interesting to know what Era does for this.

[Rave_J]

pretty much i use to play era on my ipad so this is how this grelat system set up on era iphone
u pay to change ur look
to own a gang u pay grelats for
to get certain guns i think u have to pay grelats
pretty much its a system ya u can play and dont do much
but this system is to design to milk u worst then pc does
cause if u do want to do alot u will spend more on grelats then u do what 11 bucks a month for graal

[DustyPorViva]

So you can only get gralats via buying them? There's no method to use in-game currency for gralats? See, that's kind of the problem. Classic iPhone can reward the persistent players that farm gralats in that they never have to pay for anything if they spend more time in-game... but not all servers can do that and I think that poses a problem.

[Admins]

There are tons of ways to make Gralats on Era iPhone
Also the PC version is very important especially for the development things. We plan to connect the different versions at some point but doing it step by step. We added the new payment methods, now trying to finish v6.

[Rave_J]

ya i like the new payment system due i dnt have to pay for gold
stefan maybe u can add where u can trade in grelats for a playerworld

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Staff are not necessarily "high up" and they don't really "run Graal." They are just players like you that got a staff position for whatever reason.

From the way some of them act (Tigairius), you'd think they built Graal from scratch and own the damn thing.

@Stefan
Do we have a specific release date for Era Facebook and Graal Android yet?

Also, have the customized controls for Graal Facebook been completed yet?
Ex. making movement keys numpad or something.

[gaben]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

From the way some of them act (Tigairius), you'd think they built Graal from scratch and own the damn thing.

@Stefan
Do we have a specific release date for Era Facebook and Graal Android yet?

Also, have the customized controls for Graal Facebook been completed yet?
Ex. making movement keys numpad or something.

What, you planning to go hard on Facebook Grawl as well? ...Uh..."No"? I guess I can understand it though, with an 800 player count on iPod Era it seems only logical to own it up there.

OT: Of course there is hierarchy. I don't know what you expect though, it's just a fact of life. The players that see the sun at midnight will be better than the players that see the sun in, well, the morning?

Originally Posted by Rave_J

honestly
if i was unximad
i would find a investor
and say hey i came this far on my own ect

He never really came this far on his own. The majority of content on Graal is player made. Also, first and foremost who would want to invest in Graal anyway?

I mean, honestly. Although...I do like how you can use Super Rewards to earn gralats now.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

Few thoughts/suggestions for facebook classic.

Two of the forts should be shut down for now. There are not yet enough active large guilds to justify 5 forts. If you have a decent number of players on and are holding a fort no one bothers to attack you, they just go take a different fort and idle there. When guilds are often holding two forts at once, that's a good sign there are too many. I would say keep castle, mod, and swamp, and close the others for now and open them later.

As Ares said, we could use some active GPs. I don't think I've ever seen a GP on tag. And an easy way to find and contact staff that are online would be nice.

And again, the blocking in forts is a problem. Especially when players from iphone can open their chat or map to intentionally lag themselves and block a door. It wouldn't take much work to make some minor revisions that would greatly improve gameplay. For instance, I threw this together in paint in about 30 seconds, but Mod would be much more fun like this.


Castle shouldn't warp the attacking player 500 miles away after they die. Swamp upper level entrance should be widened just a bit.

Bumping this cause its still a huge problem. Especially when there is a hacker who is auto healing himself blocking the entrance, as has happened to me twice now in two days. Literally no way to get by them. Also the spawn points could still use improvement for the forts, especially the castle. If the defenders die they respawn right where they fell. If the attackers die they respawn nearly 20 seconds away from the flag.

[Astram]

wheres the developer tools & android graal?

[callimuc]

Also the sardon tower should be fixed. Pretty much annoying there.

[Rave_J]

lol told u guys they wont release them any time soon
unximad havent even release flying techonogly as he promise in 06

[dennis20014]

I do wish android graal was out already :[

[PhantosP2P]

Looking at the projects on the table, my assumption is that they are focusing on getting Graal out on another platform to solidify that customer base. It's gonna be their next big release, besides maybe forum fastness

[dennis20014]

Lol real talk right there

[furry_mougle]

It's funny how Unixmad plays his own game.

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by furry_mougle

It's funny how Unixmad plays his own game.

o_0 I must have misplaced my sense of humour because I don't find that funny at all...

[callimuc]

Originally Posted by furry_mougle

It's funny how Unixmad plays his own game.

So if you would create a game you wouldn´t play it? Or do you also laugh than when you play it?

[furry_mougle]

Originally Posted by callimuc

So if you would create a game you wouldn´t play it? Or do you also laugh than when you play it?

I mean, when you think about how long ago it was when he started Graal the fact that he's still active within the community as well as in his game is somewhat shocking. I guess it was his latest business decision(?). Who knows?

EDIT: NVM, I guess he just posts on the forum..

[Crono]

Originally Posted by furry_mougle

It's funny how Unixmad plays his own game.

He does?

[callimuc]

Originally Posted by furry_mougle

I guess he just posts on the forum..

Originally Posted by Crono

He does?

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[Rufus]

Can you deflate the spar points back to their original ratings (I know you're multiplying the figure) or at least improve the rating system? As a guild with over 8000 spar points, it is really REALLY frustrating that for every win we gain 1 point, while for every loss we lose 100. I am not exaggerating, that's exactly how much we gain/lose, and it really shouldn't be like that.

[ff7chocoboknight]

Glicko rating please.

[Admins]

It's ELO rating, as higher you get as harder it will be to gain more points.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's ELO rating, as higher you get as harder it will be to gain more points.

8000 ELO? holy ****

[Admins]

it's 0-3000 stretched to 0-10000, so 8000 is something like 2400 in normal ELO rating.

[Crono]

Needs to be a rating compression imo. Seems very spread out.

[Rufus]

• Wall detection seems poor on the new horses, you slow down and seem to stick to any wall or person that you get close to.
• Directions you face should also probably mimic the default movement (i.e going up and left faces left, going up and right faces right, going down and left faces down, going down and right faces right).
• You can't jump from cliffs.
• You aren't visibly hurt when you get hit until you die.
• Your horse eats too fast.

[maximus_asinus]

horse get tummy ache eat too fast

[Admins]

Will improve them soon

Ok updated:
- eating takes a little bit more time (0.4 seconds instead of 0.2)
- the facing direction is the same as when walking now

Cliff jumping was working fine though.

[Rufus]

Seems much better now, just there is no pause on jumping off a cliff like there is on player (or like there used to be on horses) and there probably should be. Would it be possible to make water a blocking tile when you're on a horse, instead of it dismounting you? Also, you need to fully stop in order to eat a bush which is kind of annoying. Other than that they have improved a lot.

[callimuc]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Seems much better now, just there is no pause on jumping off a cliff like there is on player (or like there used to be on horses) and there probably should be. Would it be possible to make water a blocking tile when you're on a horse, instead of it dismounting you? Also, you need to fully stop in order to eat a bush which is kind of annoying. Other than that they have improved a lot.

Also the sword should be fixed. Looks kind of stupid when you run and slash with the sword. Also while that the speed shouldn´t be lowered (like on the default one).