Log mass messages

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?

There is something bound to happen. If this is really the case, then logging every mass message would be necessary.

[Sinkler]

Logging Mass Messages would make life easier for many people. I agree, we need to log mass messages.

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

Logging Mass Messages would make life easier for many people. I agree, we need to log mass messages.

Im pretty sure the system was put in already.

This is not Private Message History, so this should be aloud:

Squirt Mercy (Away) (Wed Aug 12 16:32:09 2009):
Mass message:
Just a reminder.

Big brother is always watching ^.^

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Im pretty sure the system was put in already.

It hasn't been. I added something on Era that works sometimes.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

We're not asking for automation, simply logs. If player xyz claims that player abc is harassing him, how can we check that?

If the ability not to say **** all you want is killing the game for you, then something is seriously ****ed up.

Yes, like the police whose job it is to reverse scams, monitor trades, and watch for rule-breakers and harassers.

I know, it's just that so many GP related things are being automated these days that it just feels like big brother is always watching. If a player claims to be harassed they will either send logs, screenshots, or any other form of proof like they have for the past, what, 10+ years?

The GP's on UN have cranked up on punishing any form of being naughty. From what I remember a week or two ago, even the slightest harassment would be punished. I like how you ignored "...to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN." and only focused on the ingame filter part just to try to get a quick stab at me. If I want to PM my friend **** that's my private business anyway. If it's a problem he or she would go to the GP's.

I wouldn't want GP's or any other low level staff reading through my logs, thank you very much.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Crono

I know, it's just that so many GP related things are being automated these days that it just feels like big brother is always watching. If a player claims to be harassed they will either send logs, screenshots, or any other form of proof like they have for the past, what, 10+ years?

The GP's on UN have cranked up on punishing any form of being naughty. From what I remember a week or two ago, even the slightest harassment would be punished. I like how you ignored "...to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN." and only focused on the ingame filter part just to try to get a quick stab at me. If I want to PM my friend **** that's my private business anyway. If it's a problem he or she would go to the GP's.

I wouldn't want GP's or any other low level staff reading through my logs, thank you very much.

As a GP for years I have to agree to a certain point that many things are too automated but I also have to blame the change in attitude of the playerbase. While screenshots and histories are ok as 'additional evidence.' They should never be used as the sole evidence. They are too often altered or submitted to look like the accused is doing something wrong.

Almost every player now accused of wrongdoing demands to see proof. If you show them proof provided by their accuser they claim its faked and provide their own faked history to contradict it. If you show them a server provided history such as mass message histories its pretty much indisputeable.

However, I do not believe that any actions should be taken by Graal staff over things said in pm's. There is the ignore feature attached to the playerlist and it should always be the first step taken if you don't want to read what someone says to you privately. By blocking them it forces them to start harrassing you publicly which can then be seen by the staff and other players. Hence backing up your story.

This is a public online game. People are going to get into arguments with another person. People are going to get angry enough at times to go off on them in anger or frustration. Half the time they've made up and are buddies again before a GP can even resolve the issue. The rest are usually people that harass everyone and get a history of it and should be banned or jailed. We are not babysitters or protectors of your delicate psyche. If you can't learn to ignore someone and insist on responding back in kind then you shouldn't be complaining. Take responsibility for some of your own actions. Life isn't going to always defend you when things go downhill.

Random rant courtesy of Bell

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I don't understand this whole privacy and "must be accessed only by trusted admins"

I won't say that the PWA are immune to this but the typical staff member on a playerworld have some degree of bias and I can easily see staff members targeting certain players and reading their logs just to punish them.

While it may be justified, Graal would probably operate much better under a no-harm, no-foul policy where actions are only pursued against a player if someone reports it.

[Tigairius]

I personally believe all PMs should be logged, not only mass messages. I know this is a major invasion of privacy, which is something I don't generally advocate, but in this special case. If not local staff, then tenured global staff should be able to view the history between people in order to help solve disputes of claimed harassment.

Graal is the only online game I can think of that doesn't log messages sent through the game, and it is a security risk as a result. If you want to speak privately, use e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, ICQ, etc. There are many ways to talk about private things that don't even need to be discussed on Graal, so use them.

Being able to view PMs can give us the following capabilities (and more):

1. Solve complaints about stolen passwords being spread around, we could search for the account name being discussed in PMs and find the person(s) sending out the password.
2. Handle cases of mass messages containing inappropriate things (pornography, passwords, illegal discussions), and have solid proof to back it up.
3. Find discussion of anti-graal (spreading out links to trainers, people admitting to the use of such, etc).
4. Find additional information on account scams, item scams, and allow us to make the communities a safer place with proper proof.
5. Solve problems with extreme cases of harassment.
6. Many more "special case" problems can also be solved.

I find myself commonly asking, "Do you have the PM history?", and "Do you have the RC history?" Someone should be able to look these things up to get solid evidence...

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I personally believe all PMs should be logged, not only mass messages. I know this is a major invasion of privacy, which is something I don't generally advocate, but in this special case. If not local staff, then tenured global staff should be able to view the history between people in order to help solve disputes of claimed harassment. Graal is the only online game I can think of that doesn't log messages sent through the game, and it is a security risk as a result.

Other games have professional and hired teams of staff to be trusted with these logs, Graal doesn't. Local staff should definitely not be given such rights whatsoever if such a system were to be implemented. As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

If you want to speak privately, use e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc. There are many ways to talk about private things that don't even need to be discussed on Graal, so use them.

If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"? There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?

so what you're saying is that GPs would be randomly reading through mass message logs to try and find things they deem inappropriate? I understand going through the logs when trying to resolve an issue, but going through them at your own leisure to find people to punish is just pathetic.

Originally Posted by Crono

Other games have professional and hired teams of staff to be trusted with these logs, Graal doesn't. Local staff should definitely not be given such rights whatsoever if such a system were to be implemented. As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.



If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"? There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

I agree 100 percent with both of these statements. couldn't have said it any better.

[fowlplay4]

Obviously Staff aren't and shouldn't purposely go through archives, ban offenders for mass messages you sent days ago. If they do, well then they have problems with their Staff and need to work that out amongst themselves.

If they do release Mass Message Logging, it should be enabled by request of Server Management for local staff, and accessible to Global Staff regardless of it being enabled on the server or not.

As for PMs, a method to determine the validity of a PM would be a great alternative to complete text logging.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Solve complaints about stolen passwords being spread around, we could search for the account name being discussed in PMs and find the person(s) sending out the password.

Stolen passwords are usually taken care of regardless. If I've stolen a password, I'm going to send it to someone over MSN if I don't want to be caught. If I want to boast that I've stolen the password (like many people do) then it's going to be obvious that it's from me anyway, private messages or not.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Find discussion of anti-graal (spreading out links to trainers, people admitting to the use of such, etc).

This can be done through the word filter.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Find additional information on account scams, item scams, and allow us to make the communities a safer place with proper proof.

Absolutely no 'real game' does this, they just provide a means of educating and warning their playerbase of such dangers which Graal does not.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Solve problems with extreme cases of harassment.

...
There's an ignore feature for that.

[Crimson2005]

Sounds a bit Orwellian to me lol.

[Darklux]

Originally Posted by Crono

Big brother is watching.

The only people supporting it and how it should work are not even players. It's pretty pathetic how low the quality of GP's has gone, to the point where everything has to be automated. It's completely killed the fun of the game, from ingame censors to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN.

Logs of any kind should only be accessable by a select few.

I agree, as PM's to a smaller count of people can be quite private.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crono

As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.

As someone who actually moderates the game, I would have to say that harassment is an issue, whether it is or not for you is not the problem being presented. Perhaps some of the harassment is brought onto themselves but that doesn't we should turn a blind eye to the situation.

Originally Posted by Crono

If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"?

They would be called private messages because it's a way to privately message someone on the game and is not publicly seen, like mass messages. That does not mean they should be completely private from the administrators who run the game, and should not be taken so literally.

Originally Posted by Crono

There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

Exactly. We are not trying to moderate what you talk about in your life, just keep the trash off of Graal. People can chat on Graal no problem while still being moderated, providing that they are not talking about illegal things. I fail to see the problem.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Stolen passwords are usually taken care of regardless. If I've stolen a password, I'm going to send it to someone over MSN if I don't want to be caught. If I want to boast that I've stolen the password (like many people do) then it's going to be obvious that it's from me anyway, private messages or not.

It is a lot harder to go around asking everyone for their MSN than it is to just mass message it or PM it to people, because a lot of people are reluctant to disclose their MSN to other people upon informal request. Maybe it would be obvious to you, since you're the one boasting, but to us actually doing the job, it's not always so obvious, and obviousness is not proof, we need solid evidence.

Originally Posted by Rufus

This can be done through the word filter.

Not exactly, everyone can still just say "go to ww\w.we\b\site\.com just remove the \!" How do you propose such things are handled? Magical word filtering that automatically understands what the person is conveying? No, it requires human intelligence. A word filter can only help, but is not entirely sufficient.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Absolutely no 'real game' does this, they just provide a means of educating and warning their playerbase of such dangers which Graal does not.

Every single game I have played, which includes several high-end MMOs are able to sift through your private messages in order to see security-related problems.

Originally Posted by Rufus

...
There's an ignore feature for that.

Obviously there are special cases, and the ignore feature is not always completely sufficient. Some people have several accounts, and some people illegally change their PCIDs to log into new guest accounts and continue harassment after being ignored. Every single harassment case isn't just "black and white," there are always new and special ways people are finding to harass other people.