Graal Community

[Rave_J]

so i decide to ask i know people say in the past to let iphone players get on pc ect but i got a suggestion
y not make a iphone classic tab
or since there's 2 iphone servers at the moment
why not due what graal did in the past put gold coins beside it and pay to play just that server ?

I'm pretty sure if this doesn't happen PC graal will be dead due the community is getting smaller and smaller

[fowlplay4]

No, the PC community is mostly poison.

If you want to play then go on Facebook.

Also Zodiac hit 100 the other day, I'd say we're sustaining.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

No, the PC community is mostly poison.

I disagree, considering a lot of the PC players that want to play iClassic already do. If anything they made sparring more competitive and iSparrers take sparring more seriously now.

Originally Posted by fowlplay

If you want to play then go on Facebook.

tbh the end goal should really be to open access to the server we call iClassic through multiple platforms (real graal, iDevices, android, etc).

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Crono

tbh the end goal should really be to open access to the server we call iClassic through multiple platforms (real graal, iDevices, android, etc).

Haven't we asked for cross-platform access for a while now?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

tbh the end goal should really be to open access to the server we call iClassic through multiple platforms (real graal, iDevices, android, etc).

A problem with this would be that all of the PC servers would end up at a severe disadvantage, unless ofcourse the subscription policy for PC Graal was improved to be more similar to iPhone's, or iClassic was of sufficient quality to attract a substantial amount of legit new players on the PC platform (which is unlikely at this time), which could then through migration be of benefit to the other servers.
An improved subscription policy however would increase the likelihood of PC Classic eventually flourishing, which does utilise the advantages of the PC platform to offer higher quality gameplay.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

A problem with this would be that all of the PC servers would end up at a severe disadvantage

Uh, what? Why?

The point is so that iPlayers can play the server on their PC's/Macs comfortably without facebook so that our community isn't fragmented. It's a long term goal that assumes this stupid subscription garbage is figured out.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

Uh, what? Why?

The point is so that iPlayers can play the server on their PC's/Macs comfortably without facebook so that our community isn't fragmented.

In defragmenting that one particular community, the much greater set of external circumstances that apply to it could potentially starve the multiple smaller communities on PC Graal, which are still enduring a poorer set of external circumstances.
The ideal direction would be to allow all communities to flourish, that way Graal still makes its profit and none of the players lose out. It's also still arguable that greater PC access could have a negative effect on iPhone, as the bulk of its playerbase would then also be at a technical disadvantage.

[ffcmike]

The PC Graal community isn't really getting smaller anymore though, sure it's still fairly stagnant and being neglected, but player intake (pre-dominantly iPhone refugees, despite the overpriced subscription policy) is at the least matching the number of player loss, so it's at something of an equilibrium. If anything the numbers could get higher given some care.

[Hiro]

iPhone and fbGraal are for losers.

I still can't believe such bullshit exists.

[Rave_J]

the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again

that problem will only get resolved through getting the word out about the game and selling the idea as something people would enjoy.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

the PC community not getting any bigger just tired of playing with average 75 players on a server when i can play with 200+ again

Because of ****ing observer mode.

[NicoX]

Making Accounts free and using f2p. people should be able to purchase whatever they want, so ATLEAST they dont have to pay gold for that stupid playercount on graal.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Back when Classic dominated the serverlist most of the servers shared a similar level of external circumstances, that same logic can not be applied in this instance. For this to be the same again PC servers would not only need a better subscription format, but the luxury of also being cross-platform, which simply isn't feasible.

Again, not helping your argument. The fact that servers are so different would bring even MORE appeal to servers like Zodiac and Valikorlia. Whether a server is cross-platform or not doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Which is why in the event of Stefan and Unixmad realising what internal factors made iPhone a success, and actually taking measures to apply that to PC Graal, combining it with the greater capabilities offered by a computer, could also gain a higher level of popularity (albeit nobody could foresee it reaching the same height on the PC market).
Granted, I doubt it.

There would be no more "PC Graal" "iPhone Graal" "Android Graal", yes you can play on multiple devices depending on the server, and yes things like spars would probably be seperated based on what platform you're playing on (computer / portable).

Originally Posted by Hiro

Well considering you are not, and never were in the high tiers of sparring, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ya what do I know. Zeross dominates the scene and I beat him on my first try and go back and forth every other time. I've only managed to take down Ares, Unleash, Squirt, Thallen, etc, but they're probably not top tier either right?

p.s my guildmates and I are the reigning champions of the largest spar tourney in Graal history. Feels good bro.

Originally Posted by Hiro

Because I don't enjoy sparring against kids who can't even defend themselves against things us PC sparrers have long since been used too. I like a challenge.

lmao, I can see you getting stomped on iClassic with that ****y attitude.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono

Ya what do I know. Zeross dominates the scene and I beat him on my first try and go back and forth every other time. I've only managed to take down Ares, Unleash, Squirt, Thallen, etc, but they're probably not top tier either right?

p.s my guildmates and I are the reigning champions of the largest spar tourney in Graal history. Feels good bro.

lmao, I can see you getting stomped on iClassic with that ****y attitude.

Which tournament do you consider to be the largest? I always felt it was Graalympics, which no one from US ever won. Must be nice in this day and age to stand behind the likes of Ares and Brett and brag about how good your guild is at sparring.

I mean come on dude, have you ever even won UTC? You would lose to every single person you've mentioned in a series, easily if they're on top of their game.

It's nothing to take personally, and I don't mean it as such. You're still a decent sparrer, but I'm sure every single one of them would back me up when I say that strafing is an important movement in sparring, and that sparring without it is a handicap. It's common sense.

And my attitude towards iClassic makes it such that I would never log onto it in the first place.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Hiro

Which tournament do you consider to be the largest? I always felt it was Graalympics, which no one from US ever won. Must be nice in this day and age to stand behind the likes of Ares and Brett and brag about how good your guild is at sparring.

There was only one real Graalympics and funny enough I was in it for the most unlikely server. The sparring section of that had, what, 8 competitors? The GST on FB alone rivals the playercounts of Graal's largest PC servers. Brett doesn't spar on iClassic.

Originally Posted by Hiro

I mean come on dude, have you ever even won UTC? You would lose to every single person you've mentioned in a series, easily if they're on top of their game.

No, and if I actually took sparring seriously and practiced in series vs top tier sparrers im confident I could take them. I spar once or twice then go ADD off to other games.

Originally Posted by Hiro

It's nothing to take personally, and I don't mean it as such. You're still a decent sparrer, but I'm sure every single one of them would back me up when I say that strafing is an important movement in sparring, and that sparring without it is a handicap. It's common sense.

Like I said, strafing is a technical advantage but you don't need it to win against someone of equal skill.

Originally Posted by Hiro

And my attitude towards iClassic makes it such that I would never log onto it in the first place.

This is what I mean though, your view of iClassic spar is skewed.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono

There was only one real Graalympics and funny enough I was in it for the most unlikely server. The sparring section of that had, what, 8 competitors? The GST on FB alone rivals the playercounts of Graal's largest PC servers. Brett doesn't spar on iClassic.

Quantity over quality? NJ won the biggest sparring tournament on PC Graal (I only took 3rd place ;_; ) although your FB tournament may have had more people in it. I guess we can just say the unofficial one didn't count, I mean Tortoise won that and who cares about that hacking ***got.

Originally Posted by Crono

No, and if I actually took sparring seriously and practiced in series vs top tier sparrers im confident I could take them. I spar once or twice then go ADD off to other games.

My point still stands then.

Originally Posted by Crono

Like I said, strafing is a technical advantage but you don't need it to win against someone of equal skill.

I really, really doubt someone could win consistently in a series against someone with high skill who can strafe when they cannot. Taking a few spars is not the same as winning against them consistently, which is what real sparrers strive for.

Originally Posted by Crono

This is what I mean though, your view of iClassic spar is skewed.

I can't help but feel that it's inferior. Over 10 years of evolving metagame on PC sparring just inherently seems superior. iKids don't even know what sidehits are, may not realize PC Graal exists, and apparently think you don't need strafing! The hell kind of **** is that?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

Again, not helping your argument. The fact that servers are so different would bring even MORE appeal to servers like Zodiac and Valikorlia. Whether a server is cross-platform or not doesn't matter.

You're only looking at it on the high end of the scale, when the effects can cause it go both ways. Weighing it up, the pulling power of simply being a different alternative server isn't as strong as playercount in itself. Given that these servers would have the advantage of being accessible on iPhone, Facebook and Android, while the normal PC servers would be one platform only, ofcourse they could suffer.
I'm not saying normal PC servers would necessarily die out as a result, but it could prevent them from flourishing, inwhich there'd still be the same global lack of developmental incentive, opportunity and motivation, which is bad for Graal.

Originally Posted by Crono

There would be no more "PC Graal" "iPhone Graal" "Android Graal", yes you can play on multiple devices depending on the server, and yes things like spars would probably be seperated based on what platform you're playing on (computer / portable).

What about PKing, Guild forts and every other form of spec-reliant combat competition?
Would they be segregated too?
If so that kindof overrides one of the main points of being cross platform in the first place.
If you're only going to have PC users sparring other PC users within meaningful competitions, that's very time inefficient to be staffed and developed for the sake of one server. It makes more sense to have each platform catering to their respective set of players, where a more prosperous PC Graal (also development platform) makes it more viable for such competitions to be developed on both platforms, either directly or through system sharing.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

You're only looking at it on the high end of the scale, when the effects can cause it go both ways. Weighing it up, the pulling power of simply being a different alternative server isn't as strong as playercount in itself. Given that these servers would have the advantage of being accessible on iPhone, Facebook and Android, while the normal PC servers would be one platform only, ofcourse they could suffer.
I'm not saying normal PC servers would necessarily die out as a result, but it could prevent them from flourishing, inwhich there'd still be the same global lack of developmental incentive, opportunity and motivation, which is bad for Graal.

I honestly can't believe you still view it at that incredibly unrealistic angle. If you increase the amount of people logging on through computers you're increasing the total playerpool and will inevitably increase the playercount of other servers, even by a minimal amount.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

What about PKing, Guild forts and every other form of spec-reliant combat competition?

There aren't complaints about it outside of sparring and strafing is such a minimal effect in those fields that it isn't important.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

I honestly can't believe you still view it at that incredibly unrealistic angle. If you increase the amount of people logging on through computers you're increasing the total playerpool and will inevitably increase the playercount of other servers, even by a minimal amount.

Once again you're only looking at it in one direction. You have to get the amount of visitors via migration from mobile servers, and factor in the playercount PC servers would lose up-front, as well as the effect of being the 3rd/4th/5th/6th choice tried server as a result of playercount based list order.
Nobody can really be sure one way or the other, it is wrong to make such a definitive assumption.

A prosperous PC Graal however would not have negative consequences to the playercount of the iPhone servers, while a more inciting development platform without the current bottlenecking could have positive consequences for the iPhone servers.

Originally Posted by Crono

There aren't complaints about it outside of sparring and strafing is such a minimal effect in those fields that it isn't important.

When I first mentioned strafing I didn't mean it as the single one and only technical advantage PC users have, I'm surprised such a big argument is being made regarding that alone. Blink is also an important aspect of sparring, plus frame rate would be important in crowded locations such as guild forts.

[BlueMelon]

I agree with the F2P model. I beleive Graal might even make a ton more using it. (More players + more buyable items)

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

I agree with the F2P model. I beleive Graal might even make a ton more using it. (More players + more buyable items)

Unless someone wants to make a presentation on the comparisons of why F2P vs P2P, I don't see them wanting to go with it

[alskdjfhg]

Good to see people haven't forgotten about the competitive side of Graal. Sick of people saying "It's a chat room"