Following the footsteps of Zone

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

The first few levels are a pain in the ass.
I need to kill something like 400 shell bomies to get my physical level from 1-2 because I already gained 5 mental levels which decreased the amount of experience I get.

But after that once you can kill T-rexes and skeletons leveling isn't that bad until about level 20.

Then you get slapped in the face by an overwhelming lack of leveling content. Where you suddenly need to spend a few weeks getting diamonds to improve your gear so that you can kill lords.

And then you hit a wall again and then you need to spend all your time getting immense/brutal maps.

It has been mentioned before, but if exp didn't get decreased leveling would be be much more linear instead of completely dipping off every few levels. And then you would need fewer mobs to fill in those leveling gaps.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

The first few levels are a pain in the ass.
I need to kill something like 400 shell bomies to get my physical level from 1-2 because I already gained 5 mental levels which decreased the amount of experience I get.

But after that once you can kill T-rexes and skeletons leveling isn't that bad until about level 20.

Then you get slapped in the face by an overwhelming lack of leveling content. Where you suddenly need to spend a few weeks getting diamonds to improve your gear so that you can kill lords.

And then you hit a wall again and then you need to spend all your time getting immense/brutal maps.

It has been mentioned before, but if exp didn't get decreased leveling would be be much more linear instead of completely dipping off every few levels. And then you would need fewer mobs to fill in those leveling gaps.

Nailed it.

Hey, was it your --fake-- birthday the other day? o-o

[Slade0Hiro]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

i kind of disagree...
mainly because i dont see trials sticking around and they get to their highest level fairly fast :P

The problem with leveling is there isnt much point appart from pvp as you get higher you kill everything and then its just zombies that kill you, so 1 place that even when u get higher isnt so much chalenging but anoying because i would be able to kill them alot easier if i didnt get knocked back every punch they throw.

Personally i think there are no challenging dungeons getting harder as you level, there is when people start "its to hard" then as they level "its easy and tedious"

I think some creative dungeons even using resized and or recoloured monsters not just for high level but going up levels i would say the HH's are good enougth for people lvl 5 - 15?
Make a new dungeon in the mountain using the mine tileset with things that would be a bit more chalenging, iguadons or something.
Add something hard at the end of them like lords when they are at the end of the HH just add something that stays there and respawns every hour and is a bit harder then the monsters in that dungeon.

The Labyrinth has a nice limited sight effect make a dungeon in the "dungeon" with that to give it that ooo dark feeling and fill it with recoloured monsters that are dark so it feel like they are just popping out at you.

Make the dungeons a bit longer, and make sure that a very basic and simple ice storm doesnt let you open every locked door... add a chest like the ones for stat pots but allow them to give mana crystals and health pots and have the key an uncommon drop from the monsters in the dungeon, a basic looking key like in the HH just recolour it gold to make it stand out from the other keys.

Add other area's in these dungeons that require more then one person maybe 2 - 3 (not something saying "you need this many people") something like one steps on a tile that opens a door the other goes through and steps on the tile behind the door to keep it open while the other gets in type things.

Puzzles to get rid of the mind numbing kill everything grab loot, the only thing that really makes people interact together in the game (appart from the event when one is held, but thats more competing) is the crypt, and thats only because it make you, really im sure if you could go in just yourself everyone that could, would...

Most can kill everyone but kasvir so if no one that can kill him is on, they get anyone and just kill the other guys for exp and if it didnt force you to have 3 or more people most people that are on know how to run until they stick to the wall and use a high level elemental scroll to kill them...

Think recolours are bad? as long as they arnt like alchemy recolours and keep the detail of the first graphic with a different colour it better then months of no new content in my opinion.

Apparently people hate long posts so i'll stop while its short... lol

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Slade0Hiro

people hate long posts so i'll stop while its short...

It really wasn't...

Originally Posted by Slade0Hiro

i kind of disagree...
mainly because i dont see trials sticking around and they get to their highest level fairly fast :P

This would have kept it short.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

Some skills need to be made harder to level. It's obvious there's inconsistency between the different skills in relation to leveling so it wouldn't be a bad thing to fix that.

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Some skills need to be made harder to level. It's obvious there's inconsistency between the different skills in relation to leveling so it wouldn't be a bad thing to fix that.

I'd be all for making some skills harder to level. Like Mental and Agility, but only if they give them more use. Agility does nothing besides get you lots of exp quickly if it actually gave you a reason to level it then I would be worth it.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Gothika

I'd be all for making some skills harder to level. Like Mental and Agility, but only if they give them more use. Agility does nothing besides get you lots of exp quickly if it actually gave you a reason to level it then I would be worth it.

-looks at 83 agility-

[Stephen]

Okay guys, sorry for the long post. I have addressed a lot of posts individually and some as a group. Later today I'm going to release a document which outlines a business strategy for Graal Online - I submitted it a few weeks ago but it was dismissed. Eurocenter doesn't have the time to focus on Graal Online, and isn't competent enough to put someone in charge who has the time to focus.

That's really the base problem on all of the servers right now.

Originally Posted by seanthien

I wonder who runs Zone..Hmmm...I wonder who runs Gk..HM..
What administrators do they have in common?

Maybe that's to blame, although prob it's lack of content as a major factor.

Graal Online is dying, and the Gold products - which people must pay for - are no longer products of interest.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If any server has the benefit right now when it comes to the pricing system, it's GK(and Zodiac, I think). GK has no observer mode, so players can try the server out to a large degree without the suffocation of the observer mode. Sure, the pricing is still steep, but at least they don't have to deal with observer mode like most other servers.

The problem with Zone is that our little french friends put too much emphasis on paid content and didn't think to consider that the majority would have little interest in paying for ****ty content.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Unless the embarrassment stems from the lack of players, that's a very contradicting statement.

We need some great new content and an even better system to support it before we start throwing money down the advertisement hole. I'm sure FP knows this, so consider it an FYI for everyone else.

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

So are the quarterly updates out the window then? Maybe if GK got more attention than updating it 4 times a year there'd be activity; then again it's a struggle to manage 4 updates a year it seems

Quarterly updates were a great idea. Sadly, Stefan couldn't give us access to the stuff we ask for a year in advance - so quarterly updates couldn't work.

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

The GK management just keeps lowering the bar for themselves and as a result, everyone else has to suffer while the place just stagnates. The fact they couldn't manage 4 updates a year, and the fact that making a windmill move is considered an update, really says a lot about the people in charge.

I realize your quote essentially gives the same message as I already addressed, but I just wanted to point it out to people so they can see how clearly you're head hunting. You don't want anything but trouble - or you'd bring some suggestions to the table.

Originally Posted by joel34

There haven't been any new dungeon in like a year.

I'd really like to make a new one geared towards level 25-50 players, with emphasis put on larger parties (than crypt) of 6-8 players.

Originally Posted by Draenin

I imagine that agreeing to run GK is a lot like climbing into a coffin.

More like an iron maiden.

Originally Posted by Elk

If I ran it, I would make a new GK

quoted for the lulz.

Originally Posted by nullify

Back on topic, management can't even handle quarterly updates now. The last "update" we seen were bug fixes and crap that didn't even need to be changed (avatar timeout). That kind of stuff shouldn't even be considered an "update". If there's a bug it should be fixed immediately and not treated like "new" content.

Quoted to illustrate the doppleganger effect Xaphan had. Again we will observe no actual suggestions are brought to the table - only the dastardly "anti-suggestions" I have mentioned in the past.

Originally Posted by nullify

And the crypt is STILL broken. You'd think after nearly 3 years now it'd be handled.

Stefan will probably be angry at me for this, but again - we're waiting on Stefan to fix a scheduling error in the gserver.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Quarterly updates were a good incentive to give the players someone to look forward to, based on the assumption there was always going to be an update every quarter. However, that fell through. And to add to the problem, quarterly updates should have been reserved for larger and exciting updates and additions, and more minor updates and fixes(in fact, ALL fixes) should be done on the spot.

Think of how bad it feels to have to wait around for fixes to the Graal client because of the same mentality. Why do this to the players, too?

However, whether these problems are because of management or the limitations brought on by Stefan's need to be involved, I don't know.

I have a pretty good list of concepts and improvements that Tig and I optimized for our quarterly releases. I should share them sometime. People would begin to understand how disappointed Tig and I. Our nice concepts, which the players would have loved, may never see the light of day because Stefan is spread too thin on the QuattoPlay engine and iPhone development.

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Graal just doesn't have the appeal it used to have.

It really doesn't. Later today I am going to release a document I presented to our Little French Friends. They dismissed it, but we will all agree that it's a good concept.

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

Release a "classic" version of GK where everyone is reset.

I would love to do this - I observed a long time ago that GK is badly diluted with ****ty content that only confuses players.

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Although a reset appeals to some. GK is not built for a reset, there's not enough content for players to recoup their old items through 'playing' and the new server would just be like the old, reliant on events. Restarting the decade long cycle just isn't the answer.

If we did a reset we would have to make all new islands and change some of the basic systems so that people with experience in the existing systems don't walk in and immediately begin profiting.

Originally Posted by Supaman771

-Obviously- The Quarterly updates are whatever Tig could think of changing the day beforehand. The only -new- content I've seen happens on holidays (2x a year?) and are usually things that if Tig -tried- to do he could do in a day or so. The overall problem is a lack of new players on Graal thus a lack of new developers on Graal. But seeing as how it got all of us addicted despite the few yearly updates, crappy graphics, and 90% idiotic playerbase all they really need to do is advertise and get the players to log in. And maybe when there's a steady higher player count, Stefan can lower his prices (opposite of what'd happen, but lets hope?) Thus GK (and Graal) go ^.

Again, I am only quoting this sort of post so people can see the trash we have to deal with regularely.

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

A reset will fix everything.

It would be so difficult to effectively re-organize all of the systems... I don't think an optimistic outcome is realistic with a reset. It's a happy idea, none the less though.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

They can't be. Stefan is ****ing neurotic about this ****. He's only given Tig limited access to stuff, and he'll only copy over content from the Dev server to the main server once every 3 months. But if the items were made on a daily basis, when that 3 months come around it'll be like having 14 Christmases at once.

I don't think releasing new content daily would help much - it would just dilute the economy. Perhaps I misunderstood?

Originally Posted by StormYs

A reset wouldn't be favorable for GK, ppl already mentioned the reasons why it wouldn't be.

Putting faith in items isn't a wrong thought.
The more items craftable the funner GK can get

Right strategy, wrong execution. We need to focus on some creation and interaction concepts, but I'm not sure item creation is where we need to focus. Houses, farms... things community oriented.

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

I mentioned a new dungeon earlier in my post - I'm hoping that the larger parties (6-8) will help form those friendships and bonds needed to pull people through some of the tough levelling gaps. It worked for me when I was a new player.



This message is for the people who read my whole post. I want to help illustrate the problems to the players so they recognize the confines in which we must work and the opportunities they have available to them. I will again remind players that I have posted a nice community project they can work on in the mean time - it sounds like "work", but the team would quickly find out that it's all fun. Sorry if I insulted or offended anyone, my intent is solely to inform the players so that a progressive conversation can take place.

[Supaman771]

Personally, I think the server is fine with leveling and economy seeing how easy it was for me to get to level 80 and get rich in like a month. I quit only because Tig failed to restore me twice in a period of 6 months of continually re-subscribing to play the server. The thing that's lacking is the updates and content to keep these main areas of the server interesting. Once you get top notch gear and to level 110 there's no point to continue playing.

Loled @ Stephen
Nou @ Trash

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Personally, I think the server is fine with leveling and economy seeing how easy it was for me to get to level 80 and get rich in like a month.

Two area's which aren't at all fine.

[Rufus]

If there is actually interest in developing the server, can it not be rescripted so it hasn't got a 'high dependency' upon Stefan?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

If there is actually interest in developing the server, can it not be rescripted so it hasn't got a 'high dependency' upon Stefan?

The current engine is in C++, hard coded on the gserver (mudlib). As a result, it's (usually) very efficient. It could be coded in GS2 but the engine would be much less efficient on whichever physical server it resides on.

Once the engine was completed, if it were scripted in GS2, the developer would then have to create the content which uses it - such as farming, mining, dungeons, etc. For the lifetime of the product... one I think may be dying... I don't think the effort is worth it.

[joel34]

Perhaps upgrading the tutorial would be better.

50% of the new players skip the tutorial.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The current engine is in C++, hard coded on the gserver (mudlib). As a result, it's (usually) very efficient. It could be coded in GS2 but the engine would be much less efficient on whichever physical server it resides on.

Once the engine was completed, if it were scripted in GS2, the developer would then have to create the content which uses it - such as farming, mining, dungeons, etc. For the lifetime of the product... one I think may be dying... I don't think the effort is worth it.

I don't think efficiency is as big as a problem as you're making it out to be; Zodiac seems to be work as much as Kingdoms does, and they're not relying on a hard coded mudlib. It would be a lot of work to do something this extreme, but if Kingdoms is sticking around as a server and Stefan isn't showing any involvement, I'm really not sure there's any other way. It is not fair on the players to expect them to stick around with no hope of updates, and the server simply won't survive without them. This could be something to work towards as a long term goal.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stephen

For the lifetime of the product... one I think may be dying... I don't think the effort is worth it.

Originally Posted by Rufus

I don't think efficiency is as big as a problem as you're making it out to be; Zodiac seems to be work as much as Kingdoms does, and they're not relying on a hard coded mudlib.

Originally Posted by Rufus

It would be a lot of work to do something this extreme, but if Kingdoms is sticking around as a server and Stefan isn't showing any involvement, I'm really not sure there's any other way.

Originally Posted by Rufus

This could be something to work towards as a long term goal.

Allow me to reiterate what I just said... in fact, it was my closing statement.