Improvement: Job Specialities ?

[seanthien]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

This is what gk needs

I don't really agree with that. There are a lot more things kingdoms actually needs before even daring to expand this far the way things are going.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Slade0Hiro

like a barbarian could get max strength high agility terrible magic mental and personality and probably a mediocre wisdom

or a mage could get max magic mental mediocre agility ok wisdom and personality and terrible phys

Bonuses for classes are already scaled by default. But it doesn't matter since you can max every stat with items if you wanted to.


You guys also aren't thinking much about the fact that every leveling category (Physical, Agility, Mental, Wisdom, etc.) would need an equal amount of crafting / gathering trades associated with it. As of right now, this is how the abilities are linked:

Agility

disarm traps
use tools
stealing
hiding

Physique

throwing
agriculture
mining
fishing
melee weapons
punching
karate
missile weapons
jumping

Mental

find traps
use magic item
literacy
baking
crafting
thaumaturgy
woodsman
smithery
jeweler
alchemy
bowyer

Magic

wizardry
sense magic
sense curse

Personality

oratory
singing

Wisdom

praying

Misc

mountaineer
bargaining

As you can see, many of these abilities are unevenly distributed to the categories, and the additional thing that complicates what you're saying is that every one of these categories would need some kind of ability that depends entirely upon the player's level in a category.

For one, GK does not have a system in place that supports level-based crafting or level-based gathering, nor does it have the content available to fill gaps for all those levels, and half the abilities listed don't work as they should anyway.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Don't go all communist on me
I just have a real issue with GK and how everyone is equal in everything. A barbarian can rape a mage, USING MAGIC. And vise versa. Your fundamental decisions at the start of kingdoms should affect your playing forever. Otherwise, you might aswell call everyones classes: adaptive

That's what I hate about GK

Everything is equal...like having 1 primary class.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Draenin

As you can see, many of these abilities are unevenly distributed to the categories, and the additional thing that complicates what you're saying is that every one of these categories would need some kind of ability that depends entirely upon the player's level in a category.

For one, GK does not have a system in place that supports level-based crafting or level-based gathering, nor does it have the content available to fill gaps for all those levels, and half the abilities listed don't work as they should anyway.

Why it's a suggestion - for improvement.
For this to work, the current system of leveling would need to be re-vamped; this is obvious.

Your general skills should look more like this:

Agility

disarm traps
use tools
stealing
hiding

Physique

throwing
melee weapons
punching
karate
missile weapons

Mental

find traps
literacy
woodsman
jeweler

Magic

use magic item
wizardry
sense magic
sense curse

Personality

oratory
singing

Wisdom

thaumaturgy
prayer

Misc

mountaineer
bargaining

Professions/Specialties

alchemy - Bonuses: alchemist
agriculture - Bonuses: Priest
mining - Bonuses: Barbarian
fishing - Bonuses: Equality
baking - Bonuses: Sorcerer
crafting - Bonuses: Equality
smithery - Bonuses: Warrior
bowyer - Bonuses: Thief

[Draenin]

More like this, perhaps:

Agility (Attuned Class: Thief)

Stealing
Lockpicking
Bowyer

Physique (Attuned Class: Warrior)

Melee
Mining
Smithery

Mental (Attuned Class: Alchemist)

Literacy
Woodsman
Alchemy

Magic (Attuned Class: Sorcerer)

Wizardry
Jeweler
Thaumaturgy

Personality (Attuned Class: Bard?)

Singing (Actual song spells, not the way it works now.)
Oratory
Bargaining

Wisdom (Attuned Class: Priest)

Prayers
Cleansing (Works like disenchanting.)
Blessing (Works like enchanting.)

Color notes:

Red: Combat Skill
Green: Gathering Skill
Blue: Refining Skill

Other notes:

- General skills like crafting, use tools, baking, and so on would be general usage skills. The idea for stuff like the gathering skills is to make stuff only available to players at certain levels. (Similar to the way WoW makes it to where you have to be at higher levels to mine better minerals, gather better plants, etc.)

- Attunements would work in-game like they do now. For example, being attuned to things like 'Creation' makes it to where you can do things like the 'Create Food' spell and cast them as if you were several levels higher than someone without that attunement.

The same kinds of attunements could be given to players instead of segregating the abilities completely.

[Gothika]

I like the idea. And the core specialazations into each class are spot on. But as a Thief, i'd wonder if it's worth it. Having attuned stealing wouldn't be very usefull considering it's only use is to gain exp fast.

It might be a good idea if each class had the 3 major specialazations you mentioned, plus 3 other minor specialazations. Which would be benefical for the likes of Theif, Alchemest and Bard, seeing as they don't have any real damage dealing perks.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Draenin

More like this, perhaps:...

Other notes:

- General skills like crafting, use tools, baking, and so on would be general usage skills. The idea for stuff like the gathering skills is to make stuff only available to players at certain levels. (Similar to the way WoW makes it to where you have to be at higher levels to mine better minerals, gather better plants, etc.)

- Attunements would work in-game like they do now. For example, being attuned to things like 'Creation' makes it to where you can do things like the 'Create Food' spell and cast them as if you were several levels higher than someone without that attunement.

The same kinds of attunements could be given to players instead of segregating the abilities completely.

I like the way you've displayed it. However, i still would prefer players to be limited to x amount of profession skills. 2 is the minimum since each class should have the ability to max their tailored professions without drawbacks. So i think 4 would be the perfect number. A warrior can max Mining & Smithing (Phys is a given because of class) aswell as choose from 2 of any other profession skills.

This is just my personal preference because i dislike the way things are now - class is irrelevant and has no benefits/limitations

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

aswell as choose from 2 of any other profession skills.

I don't think they should choose from any other skills. That way you could get someone overpowered if they are a Warrior and take Wizardry + Prayers. They'd have the full offensive package, and a lot of people will do that because they'd value damage output to be more important that being able to use other skills.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Gothika

I like the idea. And the core specialazations into each class are spot on. But as a Thief, i'd wonder if it's worth it. Having attuned stealing wouldn't be very usefull considering it's only use is to gain exp fast.

You'd have to scale rewards.

For example, if your agility is at levels 1-10, you might only be able to steal minor loot like gold nuggets, arrows, etc. But as you move up, you can steal more useful things enemies typically carry. But the only reason why stealing goes 'fast' is because of Kingdoms' system where you can level any stat you want simply by readying the skill first. Leveling Agility quickly has nothing to do with Agility's skills at all. It has to do with players readying skills to siphon party exp into the stat category they want it to go into.

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

I like the way you've displayed it. However, i still would prefer players to be limited to x amount of profession skills. 2 is the minimum since each class should have the ability to max their tailored professions without drawbacks. So i think 4 would be the perfect number. A warrior can max Mining & Smithing (Phys is a given because of class) aswell as choose from 2 of any other profession skills.

Class skills are not going to become limited, ever. That means restructuring the entire system, which will not happen.

Originally Posted by Gothika

That way you could get someone overpowered if they are a Warrior and take Wizardry + Prayers. They'd have the full offensive package, and a lot of people will do that because they'd value damage output to be more important that being able to use other skills.

Uh, that's the way it is now. Anyone can do anything if they just have the skills for it.

More stuff:

I don't think either of you are quite thinking much about the repercussions of limiting classes. As much as the classes should be segregated like they are in normal RPGs, it would be detrimental to Kingdoms' structure as a whole. Doing so would mean:

- Voiding everyone's hard-earned levels in categories other than their class default.
- Limiting players to only one fighting style. (It's not like stuff other than melee and some magic has been developed that well anyway.)
- Eliminating all skill scrolls.
- Placing hard restrictions on wieldable weapon types.
- Screwing the economy even harder.

The problem with pulling the classes apart is that it would severely limit players and give them far less opportunity to succeed in the future. Scroll writing, blessing, alchemy, and other skills are great moneymakers, and making them separate only upsets what balance we've already got going on.

What I propose is not taking classes apart, but simply finding ways to develop them more. If there were level-based rewards, it might become easier for players to level in different categories. I'll try to make up some scales later on so I can show everyone what I mean.

[Jcs1919]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You'd have to scale rewards.

For example, if your agility is at levels 1-10, you might only be able to steal minor loot like gold nuggets, arrows, etc. But as you move up, you can steal more useful things enemies typically carry. But the only reason why stealing goes 'fast' is because of Kingdoms' system where you can level any stat you want simply by readying the skill first. Leveling Agility quickly has nothing to do with Agility's skills at all. It has to do with players readying skills to siphon party exp into the stat category they want it to go into.
Class skills are not going to become limited, ever. That means restructuring the entire system, which will not happen.
Uh, that's the way it is now. Anyone can do anything if they just have the skills for it.

More stuff:

I don't think either of you are quite thinking much about the repercussions of limiting classes. As much as the classes should be segregated like they are in normal RPGs, it would be detrimental to Kingdoms' structure as a whole. Doing so would mean:

- Voiding everyone's hard-earned levels in categories other than their class default.
- Limiting players to only one fighting style. (It's not like stuff other than melee and some magic has been developed that well anyway.)
- Eliminating all skill scrolls.
- Placing hard restrictions on wieldable weapon types.
- Screwing the economy even harder.

The problem with pulling the classes apart is that it would severely limit players and give them far less opportunity to succeed in the future. Scroll writing, blessing, alchemy, and other skills are great moneymakers, and making them separate only upsets what balance we've already got going on.

What I propose is not taking classes apart, but simply finding ways to develop them more. If there were level-based rewards, it might become easier for players to level in different categories. I'll try to make up some scales later on so I can show everyone what I mean.

YES man i want that !, it would be cool

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Gothika

I don't think they should choose from any other skills. That way you could get someone overpowered if they are a Warrior and take Wizardry + Prayers. They'd have the full offensive package, and a lot of people will do that because they'd value damage output to be more important that being able to use other skills.

I said profession skills. Not combat. There would be no point of reform if people could simply go for Melee, Magic and Prayer.

Originally Posted by Draenin

You'd have to scale rewards.

For example, if your agility is at levels 1-10, you might only be able to steal minor loot like gold nuggets, arrows, etc. But as you move up, you can steal more useful things enemies typically carry. But the only reason why stealing goes 'fast' is because of Kingdoms' system where you can level any stat you want simply by readying the skill first. Leveling Agility quickly has nothing to do with Agility's skills at all. It has to do with players readying skills to siphon party exp into the stat category they want it to go into.
Class skills are not going to become limited, ever. That means restructuring the entire system, which will not happen.
Uh, that's the way it is now. Anyone can do anything if they just have the skills for it.

More stuff:

I don't think either of you are quite thinking much about the repercussions of limiting classes. As much as the classes should be segregated like they are in normal RPGs, it would be detrimental to Kingdoms' structure as a whole. Doing so would mean:

- Voiding everyone's hard-earned levels in categories other than their class default.
- Limiting players to only one fighting style. (It's not like stuff other than melee and some magic has been developed that well anyway.)
- Eliminating all skill scrolls.
- Placing hard restrictions on wieldable weapon types.
- Screwing the economy even harder.

The problem with pulling the classes apart is that it would severely limit players and give them far less opportunity to succeed in the future. Scroll writing, blessing, alchemy, and other skills are great moneymakers, and making them separate only upsets what balance we've already got going on.

What I propose is not taking classes apart, but simply finding ways to develop them more. If there were level-based rewards, it might become easier for players to level in different categories. I'll try to make up some scales later on so I can show everyone what I mean.

I understand what your saying, and the current systems definitely need work. But we're not suggesting to simply reform without the addition of necessary content or procedures.

If we had a powerful development team i'd suggest something more grand. Multi-severs with different styles. The current in which original class doesn't matter further on in a players journey (earlier on phys is prefered). And one that is a step away from GK's origins, where class definitely matters. The one i've been trying to draw a picture off.

For what you, and what i, are suggesting, there needs to be development. And currently we're lacking in that as a server.

[ViperZakuto]

I have no experience scripting. or gfxing. graal needs to find tig some help. I remember pushing for tig to get into working on graal. look what happened there. he just needs help.

I always brought up draenin's work all the time when he wasn't around, cause i know he does good work on kingdoms, and he is smart and always tries to improve ideas, and give good constructive criticism. Usually a few days to a few weeks would come, and bam there he would be, either from people saying i was talking about him, or just him browsing the forums.

people need to give input. Of course people have some bad ideas, but there might just be a good idea in all those bad.

This is what graal needs is people that can work together and talented. Try and find the people that are talented enough, and willing enough to help GK. We need to pull people together to revive this server. I know i try to help all the time.

[zorinkelpekem]

This sounds more like any RP actually

[Soala]

Okay I'm almost done with setting up the requirements and everything we need.
I should be able to create a new thread tomorrow displaying how things would work, with the graphics I've made aswell.
Let's hope I didn't forget anything that would ruin the gameplay, but I guess you guys will analyze it all .