Online Leveling Making

LegendaryTsukasa · #1 06-10-2004, 04:24 AM

I have seen a lot of scripters, are making new "Online Graal Level Editers" in which you can selete some tiles online from the list, and upload them onto the NPC server, either making them permanant, or only temporary. I have also seen one that also includs scripting o_o!

I know that N-Pulse has one of these, but has anyone else made one, and have you made a good level with it?

This NPC could be a wave in leveling editing. You can fix tile errors without having to go offline and do a whole buncha stuff.

haunter · #2 06-10-2004, 04:36 AM

We're getting this built into the next version of Graal anyway...

VeX_RaT_Boy · #3 06-10-2004, 01:32 PM

I have made one for Nolavario. Made it just for fun, so it's not that great, but it's working

URBANLEGEND · #4 06-10-2004, 01:56 PM

Ajara made one once, it was fun to use.

LegendaryTsukasa · #5 06-10-2004, 02:44 PM

Urban, don't you mean, "Ajira" ?

Crono · #6 06-10-2004, 03:28 PM

I hate them. Several reasons why but we don't need to argue. Seems the majority of the scripters want it :/.

DarkShadows_Legend · #7 06-10-2004, 04:21 PM

The nicest one that I have seen is the one Malinko made.

I hate the one on N-Pulse. I think it's slowing down the server. It takes me about 2 minutes to open the levels folder there X.X

Genesis · #8 06-10-2004, 09:34 PM

The one we have for Adiarde is nice.

darkreign3 · #9 06-10-2004, 09:47 PM

The one on N-pulse is WAY To laggy then you get some **** to come in and mess it up.... but i guess thats why we have Privit Level editing rooms

LegendaryTsukasa · #10 06-10-2004, 11:25 PM

Hehe, Chrono, you can list why you dislike them. Don't be scared.

And yes, the N-Pulse one is very laggy. I think it would be better as a LAT Staff tool.

Crono · #11 06-11-2004, 01:11 AM

Eventually offline editing will be taken out and it'll only be online. There are some bad things with this.

1) Saving it to your hard drive?

2) I'm sorry but some of us feel more comfortable doing things offline and THEN uploading them.

3) I dont want people to watch me placing one tile at a time.

4) I would hate working for 1 hour only to find that my internet screws up and I get disconnected. (Hey it happens :/)

5) There will be some minor lag so things would be perfectly quick.

6) What if our internet breaks? I make levels for fun while it's down.

7) Level practice? If it's going to be offline all our practice will be automatically submitted to graal and I do not want that.

8) Offline is fine. Why change it anyway?

haunter · #12 06-11-2004, 01:24 AM

These are the things i've been saying, I don't see the point in replacing Offline editing completely... What if I wanna work on something and I'm on a computer without internet access? Like a laptop or something.

DarkShadows_Legend · #13 06-11-2004, 02:38 AM

Quote:

6) What if our internet breaks? I make levels for fun while it's down

Good point. Another thing is staff that d/c people because they think they are idling. Imagine being so focused into your work you don't check pms or anything and a GP or admin thinks you are idling and decides to d/c your RC. It will suck if the work hasn't been saved automatically.

Other things to consider.
- Annoying newbs that want to see your work.
- Suck ups that harrass you to work for their server.
- Annoying newbs that wanna playa hate and diss your work cause they don't like you for any reason.
(This can turn people away)
- Stupid staff and abuse.
Example of stupid staff:
Level Maker builds a wall and the level is updated. Some newbie player is in the spot that was updated and is now on a wall. GP passes by !OMG WALL HACKER BAN BAN BAN.
Examples of abuse:
1: LAT builds a wall to trap a player for fun.
2: LAT builds a wall and calls a GP to say this guy is wall hacking. GP Bans.
- Server Down Time. When graal is down you won't be able to make levels unless you have the offline level editor.
- Level Stealers. (Alt+5 real fast, and then submit to another server.)
- Lack of Progression.
Graals level quality will go down because not everyone wants to slave away for a playerworld.
Also not everyone can produce quality levels straight away. Lots of practice is sufficient for most newcomers.

These are just some things. I'm sure other problems will appear.

darkreign3 · #14 06-11-2004, 05:40 AM

OMg i see you

LegendaryTsukasa · #15 06-11-2004, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Eventually offline editing will be taken out and it'll only be online. There are some bad things with this.

1) Saving it to your hard drive?

2) I'm sorry but some of us feel more comfortable doing things offline and THEN uploading them.

3) I dont want people to watch me placing one tile at a time.

4) I would hate working for 1 hour only to find that my internet screws up and I get disconnected. (Hey it happens :/)

5) There will be some minor lag so things would be perfectly quick.

6) What if our internet breaks? I make levels for fun while it's down.

7) Level practice? If it's going to be offline all our practice will be automatically submitted to graal and I do not want that.

8) Offline is fine. Why change it anyway?

Offline can make complex levels. Online can fix the little bugs. I don't think anyone in his right mind would place one tile at a time online while players are bugging him. But say, you forgot a little tile some place, or you need a player closed off, you could put some tiles in online, instead of having to pull up offline stuff and go through all of that.
It's a nice addition that makes fixing Level busg easier. I don;t think it will ever replace offline level making.

Xecutor · #16 06-11-2004, 05:56 AM

Well the reason replacing the offline editor was brought up was because it was said that the offline client would be done away with. I think there may be some sort of change made to the offline client, maybe just allowing tile editing rather than having the in game function.

darkreign3 · #17 06-11-2004, 06:57 AM

Ya offline editing will not be gone anytime soon.

LegendaryTsukasa · #18 06-11-2004, 02:30 PM

Why would you replace the offline level editer? That's just stupid.

Destorm · #19 06-11-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

The nicest one that I have seen is the one Malinko made.

I hate the one on N-Pulse. I think it's slowing down the server. It takes me about 2 minutes to open the levels folder there X.X

the levels folder doesnt have the private levels directly in it -_- its just because you're on a 28.8K dial-up

matt8891 · #20 06-11-2004, 04:40 PM

My NPC Administrator is currently in the process of making that.

darkreign3 · #21 06-11-2004, 04:41 PM

No, not everyone is on a 28.8k dile up modem zido..... stop makeing excuses when you get your but handed to you... you say lagger or some crap like that.....

matt8891 · #22 06-11-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkreign3

No, not everyone is on a 28.8k dile up modem zido..... stop makeing excuses when you get your but handed to you... you say lagger or some crap like that.....

Next time you should quote zid0....But anyway....That is true..People call other "****s" because of their lag...Everyone has different kinda of internet connections.Some even you laptops....Right now im using my Game Adapter for my PS2 during the summer....So i lag little bit.

Xecutor · #23 06-11-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendaryTsukasa

Why would you replace the offline level editer? That's just stupid.

Well there was talk about replacing the offline client because for Stefan, when making a new version, had to do updates for both the offline and ingame online client. As most of us know already, the RC client is going to be done away with as well and made into a weapon. I guess its a plus in someways because it will make it faster to release updates, but it does have its downsides.

Crono · #24 06-11-2004, 10:56 PM

It lessens the value of even having an RC and yes in that thread I remember someone (Loriel?, Stefan?, Jagen?) saying that offline mode will be all taken off.

I hate this idea because I like practicing my scripting offline first. I dont have to worry about messing something up and dont have to rely on my internet.

When graal goes 100% online I'll quit level making. It's a very stupid way to ruin a game that's unlike the other 100,000 lame korean mmorpgs.

Malinko · #25 06-11-2004, 11:08 PM

Alexander made a level maker, similar to Graal's offline one. Pretty fun to trap him in blackness too >=).

DarkShadows_Legend · #26 06-12-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destorm

the levels folder doesnt have the private levels directly in it -_- its just because you're on a 28.8K dial-up

lmao. You're hilarious man. I have 28.8K connection on one omputer and 56K on my other computer. 28.8K dialup has nothing to do with it because EoA had more levels than N-Pulse and it took only seconds to open the levels folder there. I also worked on Cynical with their 10 thousand levels and never had to wait 2 minutes for the levels folder to open.

Also, you're forgetting I do have levels access and the private levels are in that folder so how can you tell me the levels are not in there when i can see them? There are over 700 private levels on N-Pulse.

EsCanavi · #27 06-12-2004, 08:20 AM

i can't remeber the command as well but type /stats and look the NPC top laggy ( here the npulse problem )

DarkShadows_Legend · #28 06-12-2004, 08:29 AM

StaffLog or whatever is at the top and most of the others are local npcs from zidos level.
Online level editor is there whenever someone is using it. I assume it has something to do with the levels folder taking so long to open since there are constantly new levels being made and levels being updated and saved on the server as changes are done to the levels.
I could be wrong though, but I think those last 2 are what is causing the levels folder to take forever to open. I'm not the only person to complain about it taking forever to open. We'll probably have to get a global to check it out.

EsCanavi · #29 06-12-2004, 08:46 AM

zhalla was slow to ( the level folder ) and there was no Online Level Edit

Malinko · #30 06-12-2004, 02:44 PM

EsCanavi! So I finally meet the person who makes all that snog stuff on N-Pulse. Dude, you have made some cool stuff, maybe the firsts on Graal, but it's all really buggy =x! But back to the post! Offline level editing for life! Online level editing would be annoying anyways.

WanDaMan · #31 06-12-2004, 05:08 PM

Online level editing is retarded; I have a crap ISP i'm also on a router, now if I make a nice level which I'm happy about and I get D/Ced for some reason, I'd be pissed. So I'm not a fan of this..

Malinko didn't make one I don't think?, Alexander made the one on Babylon, but I think Malinko made a crapper one or something..

Yes, Es is a great scriptor, his work is good. But it isn't to buggy, shadowzelph screwed up his script so there was two.. Not him, his original script was the best.

Crono · #32 06-12-2004, 05:10 PM

I thought you were quiting anyway Wan

WanDaMan · #33 06-12-2004, 05:39 PM

It'd be fun to try it out, like I will be if/when graal 3D finally releases, if within 80 days, than yes.

LegendaryTsukasa · #34 06-13-2004, 01:39 AM

I swear, if I said that online leveling editing was ***, Gerami and others would start saying, "OMG ARE U STUID! IT PWNS AND ITS SO USFUL!"

Crono · #35 06-13-2004, 02:01 AM

No I wouldn't. If you said online level editing sucked I would say "w0rd"

I'm not immature enough to run around and oppose someone's views just because of one thread. I'm not like that.

LegendaryTsukasa · #36 06-13-2004, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

I'm not immature enough to run around and oppose someone's views just because of one thread. I'm not like that.

The rest of the fourms are, so I decided you might be.

Your still a suspect.

Projectshifter · #37 06-14-2004, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haunter

We're getting this built into the next version of Graal anyway...

Yes and no... I think we're working on coding one, but a lot of the new things such as RC and such are all actually coded in GScript (New engine of course). I'm debating about making an official GST release or so of an online level editor, but depends on the support for it and if I find the time. I could probably make a fully working one with some tileset additions and such to play with (NPC-insertions) if given a few hours. But only if enough people actually want it, will I waste my time building and distributing one. It would of course be logged, and it'll store logs, so you can't just up and throw on a block and try and get someone jailed

Maybe make it where it stores a copy of the level while you work, or add some kind of a rights system to it... dunno, we'll see how it goes. If enough people show me support for wanting one, then I will code one and make a poll or so about the features included.
-Projectshifter

Crono · #38 06-14-2004, 12:38 PM

Would online level editing = no more downloading levels as well? I mean, can't we use older versions of graal to load the levels and then upload them back into graal? It would

1) Suck if someone messed up all the levels...how the hell will you revert?

2) Suck if you cant edit it offline period.

WanDaMan · #39 06-14-2004, 01:27 PM

Offline better, don't you think people spend enough time on the internet anyways; I mean making an average level takes the person atleast an hour.. Fair enough, I spend atleast 2/3 hours a day on my computer, over this last week it's been about an hour since i've been doing my weights.
So if it takes an hour per level > lat tryout = 4/6 levels..
Now, imagine losing 4/6 levels you've made because of some ^bug^ or something, you'd have to start again..

Project Shifter, if you can do that with no bugs, by all means go ahead.

LegendaryTsukasa · #40 06-14-2004, 08:58 PM

From what I can see...

Objections
1) Offline editing is thrown out.
2) Cannot load levels.
3) Could be badly abused.
4) Could get bugged, and mess up everything.
5) People will get anoying with it.

Acceptance
1) Can edit bugs and tile errors easier.
2) Can make (a) level(s) online eithout having to open another Graal.
3) Don't have to go through the uploading.
4) Faster.
5) Could upload a new tile set(s) faster and easier.

I vote for it, because my server has many tile sets, and if I could load each one without having to type in the: addtiledef nameoftileset, levelname, 0; and what-not. Also, It would be faster for tile errors and screw ups.