I love the quality of the Moderators here

[Crono]

I can't begin to tell you how much I love Kai's posts. Straight to the point, well said, big words, proper grammar, and a hell lot of quotes.


As for this whole thread of player vs mod, I really don't have anything to say -_-; All I have to say is that this forum is for us players to communicate and such. Not to be silienced by a mod or anything of the sort.

All the mods seem to act like we also believe that heated arguments are bad, flame wars are bad, negative comments about one another is bad, and so on. To tell you the truth it's human nature to fight, argue, put eachother down etc. -shrugs- Like I said I have nothing to say. :3

[Lance]

Originally posted by protagonist


No, she's right. People are just trying to witchhunt now.

Replacing 'People' with 'The supermods' would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Gerami
I can't begin to tell you how much I love Kai's posts. Straight to the point, well said, big words, proper grammar, and a hell lot of quotes.


As for this whole thread of player vs mod, I really don't have anything to say -_-; All I have to say is that this forum is for us players to communicate and such. Not to be silienced by a mod or anything of the sort.

All the mods seem to act like we also believe that heated arguments are bad, flame wars are bad, negative comments about one another is bad, and so on. To tell you the truth it's human nature to fight, argue, put eachother down etc. -shrugs- Like I said I have nothing to say. :3

One thing that some haven't learned, is that you can have a heated "discussion" without insults, calling people names, and flaming.
A very important leason to learn for real life, trust me
You cant disagree with your boss, and say "omg, you suck you flaming retard!" and expect a positive response, more appropriately, you would explain to your boss why you disagree in an appropriate manner, such as: "I disagree with what you said because....." Put in a respectful, and positive way, he would be more willing to accept what you say, even if he disagrees with you.
These boards are no different, word your posts in a positive, respectful manner, and you will get alot better response then if you were to flame.
There is absolutely no excuse to flame another person, ever.....You can disagree with a person in a positive way, you can give a person advice in a positive way (which would help them, instead of lowering their self-asteem). There is absolutely no excuse for calling people names, such as idiot, retard, dummy, etc....
I personally wont tolerate it, I have no tolerance for disrespect, flaming, name calling, and things such as this....if you cannot speak to someone without doing this things, then simply dont post.
Everything that you people do, are lessons learned in real life, even on graal, and these boards, remember that.

Agree, or disagree...it is up to you, but do it in the right way

Replacing 'People' with 'The supermods' would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?

That's pretty funny coming from you.....

[Lance]

Originally posted by Darlene159
One thing that some haven't learned, is that you can have a heated "discussion" without insults, calling people names, and flaming.

Sure. It lacks an element of fun, but what's the importance of fun, anyway?

A very important leason to learn for real life, trust me
You cant disagree with your boss, and say "omg, you suck you flaming retard!" and expect a positive response, more appropriately, you would explain to your boss why you disagree in an appropriate manner, such as: "I disagree with what you said because....." Put in a respectful, and positive way, he would be more willing to accept what you say, even if he disagrees with you.

We are not arguing with our bosses. We are debating with each other. Your analogy is flawed.

These boards are no different, word your posts in a positive, respectful manner, and you will get alot better response then if you were to flame.

Some people have thick skulls, which chisels must be taken to in order to get through them and make one's point. Trust me - I've seen them. I've spoken to them. And, I've gotten through to them my way.

There is absolutely no excuse to flame another person, ever.....You can disagree with a person in a positive way, you can give a person advice in a positive way (which would help them, instead of lowering their self-asteem). There is absolutely no excuse for calling people names, such as idiot, retard, dummy, etc....

An idiot should get used to being called one. Such a fact should not be hidden from them, else they shall go through life blaming everyone else for their own mistakes.

I personally wont tolerate it, I have no tolerance for disrespect, flaming, name calling, and things such as this....if you cannot speak to someone without doing this things, then simply dont post.

You won't tolerate something which (as Kai so aptly pointed out) is not against the rules? Excellent moderation. I will echo his suggestion to actually read the rules you think you are upholding, as I doubt you've given it more than a quick glance. If you need help with some of the more complicated words, feel free to ask, and one of the rest of us will be glad to help you out.

Everything that you people do, are lessons learned in real life, even on graal, and these boards, remember that.

Indeed. The current lesson would be: "You must attempt to reason with the inept, whether you'd like to or not."

Agree, or disagree...it is up to you, but do it in the right way

I quite obviously disagree.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Lance
[B]

Sure. It lacks an element of fun, but what's the importance of fun, anyway?

You cant have fun without insulting people, flaming, or calling people names? That is a pity.....

We are not arguing with our bosses. We are debating with each other. Your analogy is flawed.

Actually, it isnt flawed, people need to learn how to deal with critsism in a positive way, whether it be on a game, forums, or in real life, or they will be in real trouble.

Some people have thick skulls, which chisels must be taken to in order to get through them and make one's point. Trust me - I've seen them. I've spoken to them. And, I've gotten through to them my way.

Eh, I think they might get the point eventually, if they are continually warned, or eventually banned for a period of time for continuously breaking the rules...such people shouldnt post here if they cant follow such simple rules.

An idiot should get used to being called one. Such a fact should not be hidden from them, else they shall go through life blaming everyone else for their own mistakes.

Not everyone has extremely high intelligence, doesnt make them an idiot....teens today have low enough self-esteems, they dont need you making it worse....I 100% disagree with this comment.

You won't tolerate something which (as Kai so aptly pointed out) is not against the rules? Excellent moderation. I will echo his suggestion to actually read the rules you think you are upholding, as I doubt you've given it more of a quick glance. If you need help with some of the more complicated words, feel free to ask, and one of the rest of us will be glad to help you out.

Except that IT IS against the rules...take your own advice, and re-read the rules yourself, I have read them fully several times.

[MrCharles]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Hmm, I never saw that, and have no idea who deleted it. You didnt get a warning?

eh... the thing is he didnt really need a warning because what he said really did have to do with the picture. x.X :P :o

[zell12]

Anyway, the point is made. We want to communicate with eachother and not have our threads closed or our posts deleted because we did nothing wrong, just because a moderator thinks the threads purpose was served, it is off topic or people are flaming.

If people post things WAY off topic, it should be deleted, obviously. Use your discresion.
If people are flaming, then do what Kai said to do, don't close the thread.
And finally, if you think the thread served its purpose (eg: "Who is the guild admin?"; someone replies, "Oh, thats (whatever his name is).") then don't close it. The players will eventually stop talking about it if they want to. Why shouldn't they be able to contune to reply?

Come on now Moonie, you can adjust your ways, can't you, for the better of the community? And not just you, all the moderators.

[Spark910]

Each post will be moderated accordingly.
However we will take into your concern to keep more posts open and prune the thread instead of closing.

[Darlene159]

Come on now Moonie, you can adjust your ways, can't you, for the better of the community? And not just you, all the moderators.

There is always an adjustment period with any new job....I believe I already posted that it was a good idea to maybe prune posts of flaming, and spam, rather than to delete them, except in extreme cases where the thread makes absolutely no sense because of a massive amount of deleted posts....
I agree with spark

[marcoR]

You know, I agree with you there Moonie, that's why I've stopped complaining for a while

[zell12]

Well, atleast I got somewhere... I am not good and this sorta stuff, compared to Kai. hehe

Well, I just hope that the moderators can lessen their urge to delete/close threads...

[konidias]

I agree 100% to the big post Kai made. (that Moongoddess so heavily avoided responding to)

I made a thread in hello/goodbye stating that I was back. About 20+ posts in, the thread started going slightly off topic, but still very on topic at the same time. It was an interesting debate which I would have like to see the end of.

However, it was trashcanned. Then it was modifed later on. Then it was re-added. Now please explain to me how that's a good moderating move.

There was absolutely NOTHING in that thread even needing changed. People (ie Lance), were making an ass of theirselves, by trying to pin me and Angel for "account sharing" because she upgraded my account for me. But still, it was not off topic, and nobody was tearing anyone's head off. We were simply debating whether or not it was illegal to upgrade someone's account, with no intention of using it.

But *sigh* now that thread is pretty much dead. Who knows where it would be right now if it wouldn't have been mutilated by the moderators. I'm guessing that more than likely, the debate would be resolved.

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Lance


Replacing 'People' with 'The supermods' would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?

No, I'm talking about the rude, ignorant people who keep bashing them.

[Lyndzey]

Lets look at the original reason this thread was made; to tell the mods that some of the threads should not have been closed or deleted.

Please just give me 3 examples of threads that should not have been closed/deleted. Please don't respond with a long post about anything else, just give me the 3 examples.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Lyndzey
Lets look at the original reason this thread was made; to tell the mods that some of the threads should not have been closed or deleted.

Please just give me 3 examples of threads that should not have been closed/deleted. Please don't respond with a long post about anything else, just give me the 3 examples.

I can give one... and um... people can add to that...

My "I'm back" thread was trashcanned, modified, and then re-added. When there was no need for any of it.

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by konidias


I can give one... and um... people can add to that...

My "I'm back" thread was trashcanned, modified, and then re-added. When there was no need for any of it.

I did not see that thread but I think I was told that people were trashing Angel. I think it was moved to the trashcan, then later modified to remove the parts that were offensive to Angel. It was probably added back when this thread came up, showing that this thread has caught attention of all the mods.

Although I do not agree with every thread that is placed in the trashcan or closed, I am still waiting for the supermods to adjust to their position. Once people give them a chance to do so (They've been around for what, a week almost? excluding Angel), I'm sure it will all work out.

Oh and to make it clear, you and Angel were not account sharing in any form or way. Hope that takes care of that argument.

[WHIPENIE4]

Originally posted by Lyndzey


I did not see that thread but I think I was told that people were trashing Angel. I think it was moved to the trashcan, then later modified to remove the parts that were offensive to Angel. It was probably added back when this thread came up, showing that this thread has caught attention of all the mods.

Although I do not agree with every thread that is placed in the trashcan or closed, I am still waiting for the supermods to adjust to their position. Once people give them a chance to do so (They've been around for what, a week almost? excluding Angel), I'm sure it will all work out.

I saw it. x.x I was the one who thought it was sharing when she payed for it but i was wrong as you said, kinda started a little riot. but we solved it at the end of the Thread and there wasnt a problem

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by WHIPENIE4


I saw it. x.x I was the one who thought it was sharing when she payed for it but i was wrong as you said, kinda started a little riot. but we solved it at the end of the Thread and there wasnt a problem

Was there any offensive things said about Angel in the thread? Other than that, I don't see much of a point for moving it to the trash can.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Lyndzey


Was there any offensive things said about Angel in the thread? Other than that, I don't see much of a point for moving it to the trash can.

No there wasn't... Basically someone brought up that it was account sharing, and I said giving out your pass isn't against the rules, and Lance said something about me not knowing what account sharing was.

But that's it... there wasn't any "trashing" of Angel. As a matter of fact, nearly the entire thread was nothing but thanking and praising Angel for her generous action of upgrading my account.

[Spark910]

It was moved as we were doulbe checking the upgrading thing. And then that, and posts linked to were removed.

Posts were deleted, modified sounds like posts were edited, which they were not?

[konidias]

Originally posted by Spark910
It was moved as we were doulbe checking the upgrading thing. And then that, and posts linked to were removed.

Posts were deleted, modified sounds like posts were edited, which they were not?

Um... Angel is a supermod... do you not think she would have moved it herself if it was breaking any rules. As a matter of fact, do you think she'd even upgrade my account if it was breaking the rules? Use your head man.

I said the thread was modfied. Not individual posts. Deleting posts from a thread is modifying the thread.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Lyndzey


Was there any offensive things said about Angel in the thread? Other than that, I don't see much of a point for moving it to the trash can.

I dont recall if there was anything offensive said to or about Angel, but the posts from Emily were crude, and people were bashing her. And Lance was being nothing more than negative.
For everyone's info, I am the one who moved the thread to the trashcan because, as konidias said, it would have mutilated the thread as there was alot that needed to be deleted, I thought the best alternative was to remove it, Spark deleted the posts that should have been deleted, and put it back up.....I have already stated that I should have done what spark did instead.

[MrCharles]

Originally posted by Darlene159
And Lance was being nothing more than negative.

dot dot dot
people are allowed to be negative ya know.

[Spark910]

Originally posted by konidias


Um... Angel is a supermod... do you not think she would have moved it herself if it was breaking any rules. As a matter of fact, do you think she'd even upgrade my account if it was breaking the rules? Use your head man.

I said the thread was modfied. Not individual posts. Deleting posts from a thread is modifying the thread.

No, as she is busy with her job so cant moderate as much.
And I never once said it wasnt modified, I said it sounded different than it was.

[superb]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I dont recall if there was anything offensive said to or about Angel, but the posts from Emily were crude, and people were bashing her. And Lance was being nothing more than negative.
For everyone's info, I am the one who moved the thread to the trashcan because, as konidias said, it would have mutilated the thread as there was alot that needed to be deleted, I thought the best alternative was to remove it, Spark deleted the threads that should have been deleted, and put it back up.....I have already stated that I should have done what spark did instead.

It was still a bad decision no matter how much you sugar coat it.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Spark910


No, as she is busy with her job so cant moderate as much.
And I never once said it wasnt modified, I said it sounded different than it was.

Um, okay, then why was she made supermod? You only half answered my question. She didn't even have to worry about handling the thread, because she wouldn't have done it in the first place if it was against the rules. Don't try to escape the fact that you didn't use your head by avoiding the question.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Lance


Replacing 'People' with 'The supermods' would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?

Ohh I guess that leaves you out too huh?

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by konidias


Um, okay, then why was she made supermod? You only half answered my question. She didn't even have to worry about handling the thread, because she wouldn't have done it in the first place if it was against the rules. Don't try to escape the fact that you didn't use your head by avoiding the question.

She does mod the forums, she just cant be on 24/7, as none of us can....The 3 of us working together works well, as when one of us cant be on, another can.

[Lyndzey]

I'm still waiting on 2 more examples.

[Chrismas]

Hey a quality of graal is the lack of quality choices in its administration areas. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. How do you gain popularity? Controversy... so hey graal practices it well, so kudos to them

[Lance]

Originally posted by MrCharles


dot dot dot
people are allowed to be negative ya know.

It's bad for the community, though!

You're absolutely correct, Farin.

I will also note that, in koni's thread, I never once said he and Angel were account sharing. I merely stated that you should not (except in special circumstances, with Angel upgrading his account being one of them) give out your password to anyone, as it is illegal to do so.

I really dislike when people do not take the time to read my posts, but instead isolate one or two words of a point and attempt to argue with it rather than address my actual point.

Lyndzey: How about my quitting thread as #2? A quick jog to the trashcan should yield a #3.

[marcoR]

But it's so much fun, can I bee a special exception, like konidias was?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
As for the rest of the posts, I see nothing worth replying to, as most isnt even true.

Still you continue to avoid answering my points. I'm not saying you should do an honest point-by-point like I do, you can skip the parts you don't like, but at least respond to the parts relevant to your job. You have not yet justified that idea that, because a thread's purpose has been fulfilled, it's okay to close it.

Originally posted by Darlene159
You cant disagree with your boss, and say "omg, you suck you flaming retard!" and expect a positive response, more appropriately, you would explain to your boss why you disagree in an appropriate manner, such as: "I disagree with what you said because....." Put in a respectful, and positive way, he would be more willing to accept what you say, even if he disagrees with you.

I'm not an employee here, I'm a customer. I would hope that you understand the difference. The reality is that part of your job is listening to user input, regardless of how much sugar is coating it. If you ignore criticism just because it isn't tied with a pink ribbon then you're failing in your role.

There is absolutely no excuse to flame another person, ever

There doesn't need to be an excuse, because it's not intrinsically wrong. Neither is it explicitly mentioned in the rules.

I personally wont tolerate it, I have no tolerance for disrespect, flaming, name calling, and things such as this....if you cannot speak to someone without doing this things, then simply dont post.

See what I meant about oversensitivity and mindless moderation? Everybody laces their posts with disrespect sometimes, and you're by no means an exception. If you ban negativity then you make the environment even more unfriendly, because the users feel that they are being stifled by the mods. It gets even worse when you consider your long-standing tradition of misinterpreting people's posts

Everything that you people do, are lessons learned in real life, even on graal, and these boards, remember that.

What the billy-o are you trying to say?

[zell12]

Originally posted by Lance
Lyndzey: How about my quitting thread as #2? A quick jog to the trashcan should yield a #3.

I made a thread after yours was deleted asking what happened to you and your thread. And I wake up the next morning and it's gone. Explain to me why it was deleted... as well as Lances' orgional goodbye thread?

Lyndzey, why are you being like this? That are many examples, I said two, Tseng said one, whats-his-face said another, and there were move mentioned by Kai and in previous posts.
Mabey you should take a look around and see for yourself? Golly. :o

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by zell12

Lyndzey, why are you being like this? That are many examples, I said two, Tseng said one, whats-his-face said another, and there were move mentioned by Kai and in previous posts.
Mabey you should take a look around and see for yourself? Golly. :o

You gave me two, one about Kamuii (lets see what Kamuii has to say about that) which also had Lance saying it should be deleted. The other one you gave me was one where the maker requested it to be closed, as well as DragonX. Do you think DragonX has poor judgement now?

Who is whats-his-face? What example did he give?

Lance's "Goodbye" thread is the only one I see that probably should not have been deleted. Lance, please give me specific threads (other than your goodbye thread) that should not have been moved to the trash can.

I have looked through the trash can Excal and I see many threads that should be in there. There are a couple of threads I disagree for being in there, but they are new mods and they should be given a chance.

I don't see why you had to make this thread when they have been on the job for like 1 week. I wouldn't have cared if you made this thread after they had been doing these things for a long time. But just give them a chance to adjust to their jobs first.

I don't know about your thread asking about what happened with Lance's thread, but I'm assuming it was removed because 1) you could have taken it up privately with one of the supermods and 2) it was deleted because you sort of recreated a thread that was deleted (for whatever reason that it was)

[Kaimetsu]

Threads that shouldn't have been locked (click the titles):

It's illegal because it annoys me!!!

No. It's humor, Sparky. You may not find it funny, but that doesn't mean it's worthless.

An argument might happen!!!

Moon Goddess, closing a thread means that it quickly slips down the list. When the PWA are trying to relay an important message, this is not a good thing! Its purpose had been fulfilled? Spark could've closed and stickied it if it was purely an announcement, but it was left open from the beginning because the PWA wanted to allow discussion of the new rules.

You choked that purpose to death, because you thought some people might say nasty things to each other. Nice work.

Discussing playerworlds in the playerworlds forum?!?!

You again, Spark. Sure, the question had been answered, but it had led to an entirely different line of debate. Was it silenced simply because it put your decisions under question?

What a horribly offensive thread!!! I think I will leave it on display!!!

If it's against the rules, remove it. Put it in the trashcan and send a PM to the creator. Of course, you'll have to first ignore the fact that player communication is the only real way for people to learn about the Graal world and community, and that you're cutting off the flow of useful information.

I don't agree with this project, so I'll stop people from talking about it!!!

Angel, hi, nice to see that the whole supermod trio can come to this party. I happen to agree with you about the NW 'revival' project - I think it's a pathetic ploy from untalented developers to gain some recognition through other people's work and achievements. I think it drags the NW name into the dirt, like having a child complete one of Da Vinci's paintings. I think it's an unforgiveable insult to the original project, and those who contributed to it.

However! That's no reason to forbid discussion on the matter! Perhaps if these wannabes see how unimpressed people are, they'll abandon their futile quest for acceptance. Who knows? Either way, people should have a right to discuss matters that interest them, as long as they're not breaking any rules.

Hey, you shouldn't be using the forums with that account!!! I'll solve this problem the only way I know how!!!

Spark! Again! Yes, he shouldn't be posting with that account. But why the heck does that mean you should close the thread? The moderator gizmo has more than one button! If you want to stop him from benefitting from his illegal thread then move it to the trashcan!



So, that's six? And I only checked the Playerworlds forum, since that seems to have the highest concentration of inept moderation. Mistakes are fine, people, but unless you start thinking before acting, they're just gonna keep on happening.

[Echoes]

o nos kai is back

[Blitz_Hunter]

Oh no, I feel a <3 Kai coming on...

[Lyndzey]

Kai, thank you for doing what I have been asking for all along.

Taking the time to do so has brought it to my attention that there is a slight problem, but I still think that over time they will adjust to their position. Not everyone is going to be good at a job they just got. Lance made a thread similar to this one in the sandbox and I am sure we can discuss this issue further in there.

I ask for the rest of you to please stop insulting the moderators. I know the intention of this thread was not to flame the mods, but to ask them to change. I am sure that Excal got his point across and that there will be change within the supermods.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
severely correct in every way

Kai, will you marry me?

I couldn't agree more. Lance it's all in that word you like to use called context. You directed it towards me as if you were trying to make me look foolish. Your post was basically something along these lines:

quote of mine you used: giving out your pass isn't illegal

your reply: you obviously don't know what account sharing is

It's not exact, but it's close enough. All you were doing was being an ass and trying to imply that somehow I was doing something wrong, and that I'm a *****, and whatever else you like to label me as. It sounded to me like you felt that giving out your pass equated to account sharing, and that somehow I was stupid for thinking otherwise.

But newsflash. Giving out your password is not account sharing. Stop trying to be "helpful" because it's obvious what your true intentions are. I'm surprised you haven't put a dunce hat on me and helped me walk around because you feel like you're so superior to me.