Harassement on Era

[draygin]

I used to know quite a few people who where 30's, 40's, some even 50's almost all of them pretended to be around 17 for the sole reason of not being harassed and insulted about their age. Graal is the only MMORPG I've ever really seen this problem on such a large scale. I even had people a couple of years ago harassing me because I was 18. Which I thought was stupid. I mean oh no just because I turn 18 I have to quit graal. But any more I don't really expect any better out of the Graalian community.

[protagonist]

Originally posted by draygin
I used to know quite a few people who where 30's, 40's, some even 50's almost all of them pretended to be around 17 for the sole reason of not being harassed and insulted about their age. Graal is the only MMORPG I've ever really seen this problem on such a large scale. I even had people a couple of years ago harassing me because I was 18. Which I thought was stupid. I mean oh no just because I turn 18 I have to quit graal. But any more I don't really expect any better out of the Graalian community.

There's a big difference between saying "omg aren't you retiring? LELEL" and what was said here.

[brock128]

Global Ban. Sexual Harassment is NOT a joke. Anybody who does it should be AT LEAST Globally banned for a month.

[draygin]

Originally posted by protagonist


There's a big difference between saying "omg aren't you retiring? LELEL" and what was said here.

No there isnt because I didnt specify the things they said in relation to it.

Think>Think>Think

[Good_Ol_Daze]

Ok, instead of sending the lynch mob to get Signas, how about, you right click on his name, stick with this now, it might be confusing, ok now, you see a list of commands, now here's the tricky part, click IGNORE.

[Darlene159]

Kai, kindly dont attack me for not doing your job...I have posted in several threads that was started just like this one that needs to be closed because they broke the rules...not one of them were ever closed, so I quit. I am not a moderator anymore, and it pisses me off that you attack me because I didnt say anything.
Why is it still open? Why are all the others still opened? Because they dint break the rules in your eyes....some people dont even bother with the rules here now because you dont enforce them. I am tired of posting in threads that need to be closed, it is a waste of time, obviously it is allowed now. I suggest you leave me alone

As for this case...this guy should be permanently banned from staff, and Era.
Personally, I have really cracked down on sexual abuse on Npulse, and I dont get near as much of it anymore, only once in awhile with a trial account of someone just asking to get banned.
If Era cracked down, as well as any other server having problems in certain areas, they would see a big difference. Unixmad did say there was 0 tolerance for sexual harrassment, and I really strongly believe this should be enforced 100%. The fact that she is an adult does not make any difference at all.

[protagonist]

Originally posted by draygin


No there isnt because I didnt specify the things they said in relation to it.

Think>Think>Think

Well then stop being so ambigous and post clearly .


In my experience that is the basic gist of the "you are to old to play Graal" thing.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Good_Ol_Daze
Ok, instead of sending the lynch mob to get Signas, how about, you right click on his name, stick with this now, it might be confusing, ok now, you see a list of commands, now here's the tricky part, click IGNORE.

So, just put people on ignore that sexually harrass? I dont think so, that doesnt solve the problem

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by protagonist
And so the argument about "what is wrong" isn't brought into this thread, let me state that the use of crude attacks targetting an individuals private and personal life is pretty wrong.

Not objectively so.

Originally posted by Darlene159
Kai, kindly dont attack me for not doing your job...I have posted in several threads that was started just like this one that needs to be closed because they broke the rules...not one of them were ever closed, so I quit.

Abstaining from complaining about it is one thing. Posting in the thread and supporting its cause is another. You clearly advocate the existence of this thread, and thereby showcase your hypocrisy.

Secondly, you never stopped posting in such threads. Yesterday I deleted a thread where somebody complained about what they saw as Golbez' corruption - a thread where you had complained about broken rules. Today I deleted a thread about a corrupt staff member on Chaos Faction. If memory serves, you posted in that one too. Note that I took action against both of these threads, but would've done so sooner if you had reported them properly instead of simply preaching to the participants.

Thirdly, you have no grounds to claim that I don't do my job; I'm more active than any supermod I can remember. You make the lie that I am inattentive to my job simply to dirty my name, because I don't agree with you on some minor issues ¬_¬

As for the claim that some of your posts are overlooked, perhaps you might consider the fact that I don't read every thread?

I am not a moderator anymore, and it pisses me off that you attack me because I didnt say anything.

I hardly attacked you, and it's not as though you haven't done your share of sniping.

Why is it still open? Why are all the others still opened?

Because they're not harmful. Because, in fact, they benefit Graal itself. In this thread, Signas' actions were brought to light - allowing swift response from the admins and a disciplinary kick to his reputation. In others, important matters have been brought to the attention of the players.

Some threads like this are spiteful and don't tell the whole story. If I see such threads, I remove them. But I refuse to remove threads that, in my eyes, are beneficial to Graal and its playerbase. Especially when the written rules are so ambiguous.

Unixmad did say there was 0 tolerance for sexual harrassment, and I really strongly believe this should be enforced 100%. The fact that she is an adult does not make any difference at all.

*shrugs*

Unixmad said there would be zero tolerance, so that's what we enforce. It's pointless to suggest that we take alternate action, but my post didn't do that. I simply explained what I would do if I were in charge.

[konidias]

About the age thing... Anyone who thinks it's "weird" that people older than 20 play Graal, you need to open your eyes. I mean, what is weird about adults watching cartoons? What is weird about adults playing games intended for teens?

Have you ever stopped to think who exactly produces this entertainment? That's right! Adults! I mean think about Stefan and Unix. They are adults, and yet Stefan makes a game for teenagers. Why? Why doesn't he make a game for adults? Maybe because he likes the types of games teenagers play.

I don't see how it's weird at all. All the guys that made Pokemon are like 25+. Yet they play it and work on it more than any kid does. Who makes all childrens cartoons? Adults. Who makes all childrens games? Adults. Who makes the clothes, toys, stories? Adults.

I don't see how age has anything to do with gaming. It's not like once you reach a certain age, you have to stop playing videogames, and start raising a family and going to work all day, and not have any fun.

[cloudstrifevii]

I'm a little late but he = banned for a month and after that his account will probaly be reset.

[thesaiyan]

Originally posted by Tseng
Sexual harrassment is very bad and should not be tolerated, agreed.

But, I feel the problem is more with the fact that they don't understand how bad it is.

So, what are the choices?

1) Give each person that does it such a serious warning (Again, the 1 week ban seems rather appropriate here) that they'll never want to do it again.

2) Make an example out of the first one who does it, completely go overboard his punishment so that nobody else will want to do it again (until, of course, they've forgotten the example, at which point they will start up again).

Number one seems far more feasible to me.

I'd go for number 2. Every since Seara has been playing Era she always has caught crap like that from people. I remember Zorg the old Asst Manager massing that harrassment to other players will be punished and specifically said not to bother seara because of who she was. He punished who harrassed her and I think Signas should receive the same. Everyone knows sexual harrassment is wrong, doesn't take a smart person to figure that out.

Just log onto Era for a few minutes and you will see the masses of people being total idiots to others. Not saying that to you Tseng, you know how it is there already. You yourself were harrassed and called corrupt by those people. You know how they act.

[osrs]

This is a serious thing. :/
Ban this guy for ever.

[Nitkizi]

Originally posted by konidias
About the age thing... Anyone who thinks it's "weird" that people older than 20 play Graal, you need to open your eyes. I mean, what is weird about adults watching cartoons? What is weird about adults playing games intended for teens?

Have you ever stopped to think who exactly produces this entertainment? That's right! Adults! I mean think about Stefan and Unix. They are adults, and yet Stefan makes a game for teenagers. Why? Why doesn't he make a game for adults? Maybe because he likes the types of games teenagers play.

I don't see how it's weird at all. All the guys that made Pokemon are like 25+. Yet they play it and work on it more than any kid does. Who makes all childrens cartoons? Adults. Who makes all childrens games? Adults. Who makes the clothes, toys, stories? Adults.

I don't see how age has anything to do with gaming. It's not like once you reach a certain age, you have to stop playing videogames, and start raising a family and going to work all day, and not have any fun.

You also have to realize that the average gamer nowadays is 18+. I'm not sure if that's true for pc gaming, but Graal would have a much larger playercount than it has now, you would see that that number would hold some water.

[Tseng]

Koni, I couldn't agree with you more. Ironically, I myself have been harrassed on occasion because of my age (17). I never saw any age limits to play graal - for anyone to imply that there are, there must be something seriously wrong with them (perhaps they follow "society" too closely, becuase "society" is the only thing whichi says that adults shouldn't play games. I never did like "society."

Originally posted by thesaiyan


I'd go for number 2. Every since Seara has been playing Era she always has caught crap like that from people. I remember Zorg the old Asst Manager massing that harrassment to other players will be punished and specifically said not to bother seara because of who she was. He punished who harrassed her and I think Signas should receive the same. Everyone knows sexual harrassment is wrong, doesn't take a smart person to figure that out.

Just log onto Era for a few minutes and you will see the masses of people being total idiots to others. Not saying that to you Tseng, you know how it is there already. You yourself were harrassed and called corrupt by those people. You know how they act.

Yes, I know how it is on Era. Maybe I'll drift on a few times and "be the bad guy" a bit more. However, I've always disliked the "Make an example out of someone" method - frankly, I find it to be unfair (and, before someone posts that being sexually harrassed is unfair, I KNOW it's unfair - I have already made it clear that I do not tolerate it).

[protagonist]

How about, instead of setting examples or giving warnings, we just ban every person that sexually harasses?


Honestly guys, it's simply IMPOSSIBLE for rage or perversion to overshadow common decency as far as the computer goes if you are a competent and mature person. In my opinion, the Graal community should try to strive for a competent, mature community.

[Darlene159]

Kai, if this thread is legal, and you arent closing it, why are you busting my chops for posting in it? If you wish to warn me for something I did wrong, then do so....otherwise leave me the hell alone, and I wont say it again

How about, instead of setting examples or giving warnings, we just ban every person that sexually harasses?

Exactly, and this is what I am doing, and will continue to do on Npulse...permanent ban

[konidias]

It's the only reason Era maintains such a high playercount. They barely ever ban anyone, unless the person harasses someone there who has the power to ban, then all of the sudden it becomes offensive.

If Era banned people that broke rules, they probably wouldn't even be in the top 10 on the serverlist.

[Mismimicism]

Well back to our primary topic, Signas is no longer in Era Mafia all short, Peg Leg will find a new decent leader. Since Signas is an old player of Era and its his first ban, I still think he should be unbanned and have him learn his lesson (hey, I liked the mine 1000 rocks idea Ryguy :P) But however, if anything else happens with Signas once again, I'll be easy on the permanent ban, we dont want trouble makers after all, but we want to teach them some rules too, if you just directly permanent ban them, they could just go do that on other servers that could care less, and I agree with Tseng that other players will just see this example and forget it after a few months and the same problem will come back again.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by konidias
It's the only reason Era maintains such a high playercount. They barely ever ban anyone, unless the person harasses someone there who has the power to ban, then all of the sudden it becomes offensive.

If Era banned people that broke rules, they probably wouldn't even be in the top 10 on the serverlist.

I hate to say it but I agree with you..

[TifaKhan]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

stuff

I think, maybe i'm wrong, but to me and maybe Moon Goddess too, if that person had sworn and cussed you like he did me, you would have done something because what he said was uncalled for.
Unixmad said zero tolerance for sexual harrasment, i pointed that out, and got cussed at and sworn at and called names and you did nothing.
Yet im sure if someone did that about something you pointed out you would have acted immediately.
If i'm wrong i apologize.
But i dont apreciate stating something made rule by our so called *owners* and getting sworn at over it.
(or whatever you wish to call unixmad)

[thesaiyan]

Guys, you also have to realize that a female was harrassed sexually. To them its 23094823438 times worse if it happened to a guy. Its the truth and everyone knows that. Signas was just plan wrong in what he did. He broke rules but he isn't getting the full punishment. To bring up an old thing that happened before. Inphektid, he was globally banned for calling someone "***." What signas did is worse in my opinion but he gets off easy. Something doesn't add up right.

[Geno]

Originally posted by TifaKhan


Unixmad said zero tolerance for sexual harrasment, i pointed that out, and got cussed at and sworn at and called names and you did nothing.

No. you pointed out that unixmad has a 0 tolerance rule aginst sexual harasment and that signas should be banned. then i pointed out that it was bot a very severe case of sexual harasment and then go off and start saying that i disreguard the rules. and then you try and belittle me by asking "what planet did you wake up on today".

and then you say that i am the one taht "cussed and swore at you"?

look lady, if you want people to be nice to you, maybe you should try and not attack them.

[craig17]

Lol thx yea i think era should make a new jail and make an npc for it i know chrisz can do it, lol make the guy mine 10000 rocks if he wants to play bad enough he will do it and just simply make a new level and have a simple window of how many rocks he has, once he has his max rocks to get out of jail make him goto some give it to some guy npc and he gets out 1000 wouldent take that long to mine at all so 10000 would be a good #. It would be really good it would teach you not to do it again because its a pain in the butt to do that work, and im sure after you did that you would lern your lesson not to do it again infact all servers should and also have a record that you have been jail and what not. and if its repeated once more then make it like 100000 rocks after that perment ban:o

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Geno


...i pointed out that it was bot a very severe case of sexual harasment ...

It was a very severe case of sexual harassment. What was said is filthy and such things make Graal look bad. Instead of being ignored they should be removed.

[Darlene159]

Uh, Geno....if you will look Tifa was replying to Kai, not you...and I dont believe she was even talking about you either.

How you can say that it wasnt a bad case of sexual harrassment is beyond me, it was disgusting. If it were me, he would be banned from my server, and I would be pushing for a global ban....we dont need people who say those things to other people playing, they have total disregard for the rules, and total disrespect for people

[Nitkizi]

Originally posted by craig17
Lol thx yea i think era should make a new jail and make an npc for it i know chrisz can do it, lol make the guy mine 10000 rocks if he wants to play bad enough he will do it and just simply make a new level and have a simple window of how many rocks he has, once he has his max rocks to get out of jail make him goto some give it to some guy npc and he gets out 1000 wouldent take that long to mine at all so 10000 would be a good #. It would be really good it would teach you not to do it again because its a pain in the butt to do that work, and im sure after you did that you would lern your lesson not to do it again infact all servers should and also have a record that you have been jail and what not. and if its repeated once more then make it like 100000 rocks after that perment ban:o

SL used to have a jail where you had to wash so many dishes (as many as the staff set for them to do) until they could get out. If I could find the backup for it, I would bring it back. It was actually more fun to me than a punishment, but hey.

But, I think he should get the punishment he is getting now is fine, and a perm. ban if it happens again. What he said is sick, and to say it isn't, isn't really logical. You could be taken to court for sexual harrasment and defametory comments for saying that to someone.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Kai, if this thread is legal, and you arent closing it, why are you busting my chops for posting in it?

It's not illegal, but your warped interpretation of the rules would normally say it is. I merely asked, out of curiosity, what factor made you grant Seara immunity to the rules.

Originally posted by TifaKhan
I think, maybe i'm wrong, but to me and maybe Moon Goddess too, if that person had sworn and cussed you like he did me, you would have done something because what he said was uncalled for.

You're talking about Geno? You were the one who started the fight, how can you complain about him perpetuating it? And I asked him to be less retaliatory, didn't I? What more do you want? Do you expect me to ban him for this one offense?

Yet im sure if someone did that about something you pointed out you would have acted immediately.

I would reply, but I wouldn't use any of my powers unless the person had an unacceptable tendency to make such posts. Geno isn't raising hell all over the forums, so I let it slide.

Originally posted by Darlene159
Uh, Geno....if you will look Tifa was replying to Kai, not you...and I dont believe she was even talking about you either.

If I understood her correctly then she was referring to Geno. If not then I have no idea what she's talking about.

[Geno]

Originally posted by Darlene159
How you can say that it wasnt a bad case of sexual harrassment is beyond me, it was disgusting. If it were me, he would be banned from my server, and I would be pushing for a global ban....we dont need people who say those things to other people playing, they have total disregard for the rules, and total disrespect for people

i am saying it was not severe becuase all he did was send some text to her. severe would be pysicly touching her. or sending graphical images.
now don't you think Grabbing Someones Behind is worse then saying some bad things?
i doubt that it caused seara pain to hear these words.

to sum it all up you asked how can i say it is not severe., i just want to know how these words are so severe. did they leave a bruse on your arm? do they cause you to loose sleep at night?
i understand that it is WRONG and aginst the rules. but i just don't see it as a banable offince.


and to kai, i'm sorry about calling her an idiot, but she offinded me when she said that i have no respect for the rules. in my opinon it was a even blow. i just get carried away and defend fire with fire, sorry.

[Princess_Galadriel16]

He just didnt send it to me, He massed it out, so now all that had mass on read it, those were just 2 that he send to forum, he send more after that,, I get stuff like this all the time but this was the worst of them all.

[craig17]

take him to mines im telling you!!!

[Golbez]

Originally posted by craig17
take him to mines im telling you!!!

Um... your 17 and you act like a little child grow up...
Ok, the idea would be ok but see mining wont stop him, like I said he would get off for about a week or so then come back PM a stuck in jail because of a big. If it got this many peoples attention he should be banned

[craig17]

yea this guy should be banned but for like a new thing no you dont just get stuck in this jail a staff would have to put you in there and you could get out once you did all the qwork and staff could easily check if you had done the work or if that not to even bother staff make a simple npc that knows once he is done his mining 10000 rocks or whatever the amount maybe he can be warped back to the startpoint and also his account should be reset that would teach a good lesson , man you wanna sit on the computer all day for a week to mine 10000 minerals or more and you know how boring that would be? thats my point it would work great, guess only bad part is he could go to anotuer server and be the same way. bu tother servers could do some sort of jail work job also, i red in the forums earlier about they used to have to do a certain amount of washing dishes..

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Geno




i am saying it was not severe becuase all he did was send some text to her. severe would be pysicly touching her. or sending graphical images.
now don't you think Grabbing Someones Behind is worse then saying some bad things?
i doubt that it caused seara pain to hear these words.

to sum it all up you asked how can i say it is not severe., i just want to know how these words are so severe. did they leave a bruse on your arm? do they cause you to loose sleep at night?
i understand that it is WRONG and aginst the rules. but i just don't see it as a banable offince.


and to kai, i'm sorry about calling her an idiot, but she offinded me when she said that i have no respect for the rules. in my opinon it was a even blow. i just get carried away and defend fire with fire, sorry.

The sexual harrassment here IS severe verbally. A person does not have to physically touch another person to sexually harrass them, or for it to be deemed severe. Sexual harrassment is sexual harrassment, whether it be physical or verbal. Dont sit there and say how someone else should feel about text. I personally do not wish to see crap like that from a child....it is a very uncomfortable feeling, and trust me, we arent playing this game to have that kind of feeling on a daily basis.

what factor made you grant Seara immunity to the rules.

I didnt...you stated this thread isnt against the rules, so how did I grant her immunity? I am not going to go around to these threads anymore and state that they need to be closed, and if I feel like replying to the thread, then I will do so, if you dont like it, too bad....warn me, ban me, or just shut up and leave me alone like I have done with you. It isnt against the rules for me to post in a thread that it should be closed, and it also isnt against the rules for me to NOT post in a thread that it should be closed, nor is it illegal for me to post in a thread that you as a supermod deem appropriate to leave open (even though it clearly breaks the rules) should I choose to reply to it. When I do something illegal, then feel free to warn me, otherwise dont make a thread go off in a different direction attacking me...I have left you alone and gone a different route instead of posting arguements to you here, I suggest you do the same

[Demon]

Hmm... I think they should just jail the offender until he apologizes and the female accepts.. thats what some do. so it could range from 5 min to a life time.

[Golbez]

To whom it may concern:

If you are a recipient of this letter, you have been following the case of sexual harassment against the person you know as "Seara Yamada." I am deeply saddened if you have been offended in any way as a result of the textual attacks that she, and the entire population of era received on July the 14th. I can not take these remarks away but hopefully I can logically explain them to you. Let me explain.

Many of you may know a graalian player named "Midnight Reaver." He was a real-life friend of mine till a short while ago. The two of us got into a fight and I have decided to cut our friendship off. I had previously accessed the graal client at his house so my account and password were both recorded into his accounts cache. The perfect way to take out any anger and bad blood he had towards me. He then proceeded to harass several players including "Lone Blue Wolf" and "Seara Yamada." Even though it was not me who committed these vile and disturbing acts I do, however accept full responsibility for them seeing as it was my own ignorance that got me into this trouble.
I will apologize to both of the "victims" of these textual attacks. I hope you will accept my appology as well. Please forgive me for the acts of a spiteful person. He will get what is coming to him in due time. I look forward to seeing you soon.

Regretfully Yours,
Andrew Jack
"Signas"

Signas IMed me this, it does seem wierd that he masses this. He doesnt act like that normal
You should allow him to change is password so it stops X_X

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I didnt...you stated this thread isnt against the rules, so how did I grant her immunity?

My opinions are irrelevant. You clearly believe this type of thread to be illegal, but you suspended your usual condemnation in Seara's case.

leave me alone like I have done with you

You've left me alone? Hah! You guttersnipe at me whenever you see the opportunity! If you require an example, I can easily provide one.

[Kaimetsu]

Back on topic (separated into two posts so as not to diminish the importance of this one):

I received the following from Signas himself:

To whom it may concern:

If you are a recipient of this letter, you have been following the case of sexual harassment against the person you know as "Seara Yamada." I am deeply saddened if you have been offended in any way as a result of the textual attacks that she, and the entire population of era received on July the 14th. I can not take these remarks away but hopefully I can logically explain them to you. Let me explain.

Many of you may know a graalian player named "Midnight Reaver." He was a real-life friend of mine till a short while ago. The two of us got into a fight and I have decided to cut our friendship off. I had previously accessed the graal client at his house so my account and password were both recorded into his accounts cache. The perfect way to take out any anger and bad blood he had towards me. He then proceeded to harass several players including "Lone Blue Wolf" and "Seara Yamada." Even though it was not me who committed these vile and disturbing acts I do, however accept full responsibility for them seeing as it was my own ignorance that got me into this trouble.

I will apologize to both of the "victims" of these textual attacks. I hope you will accept my appology as well. Please forgive me for the acts of a spiteful person. He will get what is coming to him in due time. I look forward to seeing you soon.

Regretfully Yours,
Andrew Jack
"Signas"

Judge it on its merits. I can't assume that he's telling the truth, but, personally, I extend to him the benefit of the doubt.

[Lyndzey]

Signas never seemed like the kind of guy to do something like that.

The only thing that led me to believe this is that Era Mafia and Tachi are always at war (Seara is the leader of Tachi and he is the leader of EM)

[Golbez]

Originally posted by Lyndzey
Signas never seemed like the kind of guy to do something like that.

The only thing that led me to believe this is that Era Mafia and Tachi are always at war (Seara is the leader of Tachi and he is the leader of EM)

Well there was no one in Era Mafia it was just Sig, he was going to hire more people but he never did. Tachi and EM were at war but all gangs are lol. EM basically was in no condition to fight a war. I dont think he would do this over a war.. o.O