betflipping

[bloodykiller]

It needs to be deleted.

Morally: You're making 90% of the server (especially the 12 year olds) gambling addicts.

Most importantly: Players lose all their money/items, cry/get pissed off and decide to quit for good/kill themselves. The playercount certainly hasn't flourished lately.

[Kohola_KinG]

I am a big gambler in real life. I go through phases of losing big money and winning big money to. It is very stressful when you lose but that's on your own doing.

Do i think betflipping should be on era? I do for selfish reasons because i enjoy it but i disagree with it because it promotes gambling and gambling is 18 or 21+ in most country's. I am pretty sure it is illegal to have it on era due to age restrictions as you're promoting gambling to people under-age.

Like i said, I enjoy it and I've lost millions but i would understand why it was removed (if removed).

That's my 2 cents on it.

[Fidel Castro]

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

I am a big gambler in real life. I go through phases of losing big money and winning big money to. It is very stressful when you lose but that's on your own doing.

Do i think betflipping should be on era? I do for selfish reasons because i enjoy it but i disagree with it because it promotes gambling and gambling is 18 or 21+ in most country's. I am pretty sure it is illegal to have it on era due to age restrictions as you're promoting gambling to people under-age.

Like i said, I enjoy it and I've lost millions but i would understand why it was removed (if removed).

That's my 2 cents on it.

Who are you making plays on over at will hill for the WC?

[Kohola_KinG]

Originally Posted by Fidel Castro

Who are you making plays on over at will hill for the WC?

Not sure who to back yet. I've been betting on the friendly's though, England lost me a bet tonight.

[Fidel Castro]

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

Not sure who to back yet. I've been betting on the friendly's though, England lost me a bet tonight.

Same. Thought that one was good to go, especially after a weak Mexican side took it to them. England just isn't playing how they should be.

I've been killing it on friendlies overall though. Trying to build up that stack for the real thing. Placing some futures on some teams to get out of group already.

[lTBSl]

There is a disclaimer when you enter the casino...It is at your own risk to be money and lose...If you lose that is your fault.

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by lTBSl

There is a disclaimer when you enter the casino...It is at your own risk to be money and lose...If you lose that is your fault.

the problem is that most people on era are under 18, therefore not qualified to make such decisions

[shrimps]

Nobody complains about the lottery which has been there for years..... I don't get it. :o

[bloodykiller]

step 1. Player bets
step 2. Player loses all his money
step 3. Player quits

Result: Lower playercount

I can upload a drawing if needed.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

I can upload a drawing if needed.

If you would that'd be great.

[shrimps]

Yes, please make a drawing, I don't understand what it is you are trying to say.

[fowlplay4]

bloodykiller's right, we should delete her account.

she has made a really convincing argument and i believe we should do as she wishes, a women knows best in this situation.

[Tim_Rocks]

I call dibs on her items.

[BlueMelon]

A drawing would help us visualize what you are trying to portrait.

[Kohola_KinG]

Me waiting on this picture.

[fowlplay4]

here's a picture of part of this thread on a monitor in the desert:

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

I am pretty sure it is illegal to have it on era due to age restrictions as you're promoting gambling to people under-age.

I'm just going to point out that it's only illegal if you are gambling with real currency.

[Kohola_KinG]

Originally Posted by Fiberwyre_P2P

I'm just going to point out that it's only illegal if you are gambling with real currency.

Promoting gambling to under aged people is also illegal i'm pretty sure.

[Godzilla]

I made a pretty penny off of betflipping, if I recall I got scammed of millions and with my last million that I was given back from the scam I betflipped my way to 15million +

Although I was one of the luckier ones, I do not advise betflipping at all but it's good to have there for people who want to stretch their luck after being down for so long.

[lTBSl]

I made 6 mil in the last day...I also have made 25 million in a day and then lost to tre and he got reset due to usding LOL

[Stephen]

In my experience on GK, these sort of wager games greatly improve the balance of the economy - it drives scarcity.

[shrimps]

Especially since every time people betflip it takes money out of the economy.

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by Stephen

In my experience on GK, these sort of wager games greatly improve the balance of the economy - it drives scarcity.

2 players have 100k each.

They bet it all.

One player has 200k and the other has 0.

Has the balance improved?

[shrimps]

He said economy, not individual person.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

2 players have 100k each.

They bet it all.

One player has 200k and the other has 0.

Has the balance improved?

The economy, for general purposes on Graal, represents how fast a currency or valuable is created versus how quickly it is destroyed.

When this is disbalanced there is one of two extremes:

1. Everyone is rich and everything costs a million dollars.
2. There is an elite which is rich and most items are prohibitively expensive.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The economy, for general purposes on Graal, represents how fast a currency or valuable is created versus how quickly it is destroyed.

When this is disbalanced there is one of two extremes:

1. Everyone is rich and everything costs a million dollars.
2. There is an elite which is rich and most items are prohibitively expensive.

In the case of Era, currency can be created infinitely at ever increasing rates due to various recent updates (money from kills, increased money from kills buff, even points from said kills, pawning, etc.) and level scaling on the default jobs such as mining/trash/flowers.

Meanwhile with players gaining money faster/easier there's virtually none or very limited (a few hundred dollars on a million dollar bet.. I even raised these fees without anyone knowing) outlets/ways of removal for all this which is created. Recently some of these even got removed:
-Shovels don't break anymore, and you get shells faster/can even use shell TNT...
-Taxes were removed on the player businesses, and people rarely buy individual ammo anymore (never from the more expensive NPC shops) with unlimited options.
-GRC isn't used anymore, people buy potions from the mall.
-Most misc. items you can get from quests in a few minutes, or just buy at the mall.
-Many more houses.. with less active playerbase making for less lockers/apartments required.
-Most new cars are coded with the option making them require no fuel. Skateboards no longer break.
-All the new melee options are indestructible. They got rid of the gun rental/ability to set bounties.

Just all these little nuisances that kept people in check at the few thousand dollar mark are too casual to even exist when players have millions.

So, given enough time.. you will always arrive at the first option in this case. That's why the money only goes up, and after every Reset we eventually reached the same climax of million dollar Mp5's. Though we've never really waited this long.. so you're at the point where some players can't even use the 'Withdraw All' option on ATMs since 3.74m or something is the maximum Gelats you can hold in the default Graal system. Fun right?
-----

Bet-flipping has a disclaimer when you enter, nobody summons them to the tables and locks them in blocks or anything... it's honestly fine.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

In the case of Era, currency can be created infinitely at ever increasing rates

Yea, that's why there needs to be a balance. If it's easy to create money you need to make ways to easily spend money which are appealing to the masses.

If that's not possible it needs to be harder to make money or some rules (ie, bank fees) need to be implemented.

I've spoken to several managers - they all seem to believe it's reasonable that picking flowers or shells earns a player anywhere from 6,000-10,000 dollars per session. Hmm...

[Kohola_KinG]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I've spoken to several managers - they all seem to believe it's reasonable that picking flowers or shells earns a player anywhere from 6,000-10,000 dollars per session. Hmm...

Define session? To earn 10k from shells would take hours of work. I am also pretty sure picking flowers takes even longer.

It's not money making systems that's pumping millions into the economy. It's the money you get per kill and selling gang points. That's were most of the money is coming from.

We have some individuals who have sky high mining levels but i wouldn't worry about that to much. Not as much as gang points and the money you get from kills.

An ULMS, Gang ULMS or BH PK. I could easily walk away with 10k after them events. It's that high.

[Zongui]

everyone is rich on era nowadays. value of money is weak.

[Kohola_KinG]

Originally Posted by Zongui

everyone is rich on era nowadays. value of money is weak.

I wouldn't say everyone. I am certainly not rich anymore but the problem is, i can get rich if i want to because certain systems allow me to.

I still & always will disagree with putting every weapon into the shops. Now people don't have to overspend to get their weapons, they can get them much cheaper in stores. This allows money to be divided within the community between each player.

Let's face it, we aren't communist. We all shouldn't have the same guns, same money etc It's no fun that way.

The truth is. We need poor people trying to get rich & we need the rich trying to get richer. It's harsh but it works better.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I've spoken to several managers - they all seem to believe it's reasonable that picking flowers or shells earns a player anywhere from 6,000-10,000 dollars per session. Hmm...

More, if you're considering a golden shovel/worker pot (removes the fee) and the new addition of Shell TNT (like the only thing Zach has ever made..), and more if you're considering a maxed level bouquet maker who buys the raw flowers from others.

Most managers have had the wrong mindset for running Era. Keeping the same team and monitoring the same systems, without any ambition or goal generally gets us 6 months of nice ice (ie. nothing).

The economy of Era is a whole other spectrum that is as rarely touched as Koho's Koho. I don't expect these guys who can barely babysit the server to have the nerve to actually jump in and touch the basis of the currency.. but if anything we should have a Money Flow Admin/Moderator working on balancing these things instead of some specialized admins ruining gun balance, making their friends gang leaders, or in more recent cases.. running a team of one. (ie. gani admin)

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

I wouldn't say everyone. I am certainly not rich anymore but the problem is, i can get rich if i want to because certain systems allow me to.

So much this. I remember when I would sit in BB mines spending an hour a day just to afford ammo and pizza (which I got on sale since Nub owned AM and Sales owned SP). This is before the thousand dollar potions, and when ammo boxes were just 4$ but we were required to work everyday just to compete. I remember mining with Sales specifically one time; cause the machine spit out 5 diamonds at once and we all flipped the f**k out.

Now, I can login and make a half a million dollars in a day doing the quests 3 times and pawning the prizes; using the buffed mining for a little bit; running a bhpk and selling my points; then betflipping for a hour. But why do this when there's no outlets to even spend the money on?

I've been saying for quite awhile now that money is worthless, and thus have refused to sell/trade anything or work/buy for anything. I get potions, ammo, and bombs for free. I lend whatever gun I feel like using; or just mess around with the ones I got for free from doing events.

Before I was forced to login a hour early and take pride in some hard work to get my daily fun. Now I login for 5 minutes, have everything possible, and get bored after sparring a few laggers. The game-play has taken a huge plummet based solely on how the recent teams have treated the economy.

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

I still & always will disagree with putting every weapon into the shops. Now people don't have to overspend to get their weapons, they can get them much cheaper in stores. This allows money to be divided within the community between each player.

Let's face it, we aren't communist. We all shouldn't have the same guns, same money etc It's no fun that way.

The truth is. We need poor people trying to get rich & we need the rich trying to get richer. It's harsh but it works better.

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by shrimps

He said economy, not individual person.

the economy is made out of individuals. The facts are simple: when people lose all their money they quit and betflipping makes a lot of people lose all their money.

[lTBSl]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

the economy is made out of individuals. The facts are simple: when people lose all their money they quit and betflipping makes a lot of people lose all their money.

So don't betflip and you don't assume the risks of losing your money....not a hard concept to grasp...nobody has a gun to anyones head irl saying BETFLIP OR DIE

[bloodykiller]

stop being american... i obviously don't betflip and definitely don't need to but there are so many addicted *****s on era that do and it damages the playercount. i was joking about the drawing but maybe some of you guys would actually benefit from it

[shrimps]

yes please draw

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

stop being american... i obviously don't betflip and definitely don't need to but there are so many addicted *****s on era that do and it damages the playercount. i was joking about the drawing but maybe some of you guys would actually benefit from it

Have you considered drawing for a living?

[Godzilla]

I attempted to make the economy scarce by taking out all of the illegal money and items I could find whilst I was in a position of power but the over-whelming amount of cash was something like $150million and I only ended up taking it down to around 90million, which at the time we thought was a great achievement, I would be interested to see how much money is in Era's economy after about a year or so since it was at 90million

[Kohola_KinG]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

I attempted to make the economy scarce by taking out all of the illegal money and items I could find whilst I was in a position of power but the over-whelming amount of cash was something like $150million and I only ended up taking it down to around 90million, which at the time we thought was a great achievement, I would be interested to see how much money is in Era's economy after about a year or so since it was at 90million

I wouldn't consider it a great achievement. If you did what you said you did then i would consider it a good job but certainly not a great achievement. You cleaned it up but you didn't fix the issue that caused it to get that high in the first place. When you do that, then it's a great achievement.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by Kohola_KinG

I wouldn't consider it a great achievement. If you did what you said you did then i would consider it a good job but certainly not a great achievement. You cleaned it up but you didn't fix the issue that caused it to get that high in the first place. When you do that, then it's a great achievement.

That was the next step in our plan before they got foiled with corruption in the Team and management. I don't consider it an amazing achievement but it was a working progress to a better future. I had a bunch of notes on RC which I documented the entire progress, I made all the PRs do the same at the time and someone deleted them once I was removed.

[Spikedude]

It's pretty tough to fix the economy without a reset at this point. With all the money that's out there, some of which is on accounts that haven't been online in so long; plus the number of cool items that were supposed to be rare (like the mp5 navy)... You'll never get it all back without a reset. And it's mostly been decided that a reset is out of the question. I'd love to find an answer to the current economy.