Graal Free To Play on Facebook and Android

[ffcmike]

Yesterday I noticed an observer mode bug which I was previously unaware of.
If you're using V5 and the observer and/or yourself have UDP enabled, and they follow your player on their screen, they do not appear invisible on your screen, and their character appears to be stuck on top of your character as you move around, which can be pretty annoying.

On the subject of it, another bug I've not mentioned before is that when using V6, an observer's gani will remain frozen on the same frame.
Lets say a trial enters observer mode in the middle of slashing, you'd see them stuck on the sword gani. Having a clientside hit detection which scans the gani of other players to detect attacks, it is actually possible to be hurt by an observer, and the variable player.isobserver doesn't seem to be synced to other players clients. Not sure if this is an issue with default systems.

It's also annoying when observer mode coincides with clientside <-> serverside triggers.

[ffcmike]

So about 2 and a half weeks ago I emailed Stefan + Unix for the 2nd time (first time was ignored again) a German, French and English copy of Classic's micro-transaction plans.
Incredibly, I got a response just 2 minutes later. My astonishment quickly turned into disappointment however, when I read the reply of:

Stefan: Can't you just do it in English, I feel stupid when receiving such mails.

The reason this is funny is not because the email did happen to include the original English copy, but because it implies it would have been read and/or replied to.

Stefan, if there is anything you should feel stupid about, it is the fact that you think of yourself as both a game designer and a business man, while utterly failing to even acknowledge the massive flaws, as well as the proposed solutions or requests for clarification, concerning the cancer you call observer mode.
Either you are ignorant of just how detrimental to gameplay observer mode is, or you are knowingly neglecting an issue which is bad for PC Graal's business.

[fowlplay4]

why did u send him the same document in three different languages

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

why did u send him the same document in three different languages

To minimise potential misunderstanding, which when you consider Stephane's approval is required, and him traditionally not being too comfortable with English, was worth a try.

[skillmaster19]

LOL. Thor he is just trying to find a way to reply. He's probably uncomfortable with answering your requests and all that, so he looked for something easy to say.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Graal needs a Marketing Team to advertise properly and always has done. Spark910 gave it a shot a long time ago whilst being a Game Master but no one has bothered since to my acknowledgement. It's such a shame especially with the success of iPhone servers you would think as a business they would invest in such a department to bring in more customers or at least an advocate team who communicate with higher staff in relating topics.

I would agree that there should be greater efforts to market, advertise and promote the game, something I try to do as often as what's reasonable for a UC server via Youtube, albeit to an existing audience. Serious attempts to accomplish this however would largely be a waste of time, as it matters little how much effort you put towards advertising something with such a high price, comparatively few players, and with restrictions prohibitive towards new players properly experiencing the game.

One of the suggestions Stefan did give to me when he initially responded was that we should make trials upgrade to gold in order to "unlock" the later quests. Lets ignore the issue of such quests being intended to help attract new players in the first place, and put things into perspective.
How much did the latest Zelda game cost in comparison to the price of Gold?

[DustyPorViva]

Advertising a game as "free" and then closing off a portion of the game for paid players is a good way to piss people off. Pay for looks and that's about all you should be able to pay for. It's enough for every other MMO out there, and even the working method for iClassic, so I don't see why they'd try to push anything different on the PC servers.

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Advertising a game as "free" and then closing off a portion of the game for paid players is a good way to piss people off. Pay for looks and that's about all you should be able to pay for. It's enough for every other MMO out there, and even the working method for iClassic, so I don't see why they'd try to push anything different on the PC servers.

Correction, it might've started off with just looks but now it has become guild houses, houses, outfit slots, VIP exclusive rooms, and I might've missed some.

Either way, if you don't play on the iServers you're missing out on a good portion of gameplay still.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Tricxta

Correction, it might've started off with just looks but now it has become guild houses, houses, outfit slots, VIP exclusive rooms, and I might've missed some.

Either way, if you don't play on the iServers you're missing out on a good portion of gameplay still.

All of that can be purchased with in-game money. You have to remember that on PC Graal currently they're using a gralat system separate from in-game currency.

Anyways, houses? Aesthetic. They serve no gameplay purpose right now, you just get to pretty up a room and show it to others. No different than decorating your player body. Outfit slots? Again, that just expands the character customization aspect of the game. VIP exclusive rooms are nothing but get-together rooms for VIP people(not like VIP has THAT much going for it), do people even go there? Again, you can't compare a VIP room to a quest. I could play iClassic(if I really ever played it) and not really feel left out for not buying any of that stuff.

[Hezzy002]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

All of that can be purchased with in-game money. You have to remember that on PC Graal currently they're using a gralat system separate from in-game currency.

Anyways, houses? Aesthetic. They serve no gameplay purpose right now, you just get to pretty up a room and show it to others. No different than decorating your player body. Outfit slots? Again, that just expands the character customization aspect of the game. VIP exclusive rooms are nothing but get-together rooms for VIP people(not like VIP has THAT much going for it), do people even go there? Again, you can't compare a VIP room to a quest. I could play iClassic(if I really ever played it) and not really feel left out for not buying any of that stuff.

So what you're basically saying is that the entire game is aesthetic, maybe with exception to sparring and the guild tower takeover things?

You know, that's pretty much exactly right.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

So what you're basically saying is that the entire game is aesthetic, maybe with exception to sparring and the guild tower takeover things?

You know, that's pretty much exactly right.

It is pretty much a large dress-up game with a chat room. But you can earn money in the game if you have the patience for it. This can't be done on PC because of the segregated currency system(not to mention unifying the currency like on the iOS market would have problems as any ol' staff could just hand out money), so the only way you'd be able to access those end-game quests would be to actually shell out real money. In the end though, nothing of major content is hidden away for those who pay, and anyone can spar, PK, quest(pitiful example as there are less than a handful on the iPhone server).

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Advertising a game as "free" and then closing off a portion of the game for paid players is a good way to piss people off. Pay for looks and that's about all you should be able to pay for. It's enough for every other MMO out there, and even the working method for iClassic, so I don't see why they'd try to push anything different on the PC servers.

You must not be familiar with unixmad (Stephane Portha). I would recommend doing an old school google search on him. He is known for stealing, and I'm sure he is going to do everything he can in order to get a dollar. All of the staff(globals) that run this game are not paid, unlike any other game.. and possibly illegal?

[ff7chocoboknight]

Global staff and developers voluntarily work and create content for the game.

If the voluntary developers no longer wish to do it volunarily--let's call it a strike, Graal will have a large problem when content isn't being created or it's being half-assed by sub-par developers.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by ff7chocoboknight

Global staff and developers voluntarily work and create content for the game.

If the voluntary developers no longer wish to do it volunarily--let's call it a strike, Graal will have a large problem when content isn't being created or it's being half-assed by sub-par developers.

God damnit **** *** **** ur ****ing signature.


on topic: Yeahh.. voluntarily my ass.

[ff7chocoboknight]

How is it not voluntary? Players are taking time out of their day to work on a game for free.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by ff7chocoboknight

Players are taking time out of their day to work on a game for free.

need i say more?

Do you see Admin's on WoW or any other game putting in all the effort... for free?

[dude2020]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

You must not be familiar with unixmad (Stephane Portha). I would recommend doing an old school google search on him. He is known for stealing, and I'm sure he is going to do everything he can in order to get a dollar. All of the staff(globals) that run this game are not paid, unlike any other game.. and possibly illegal?

Actually did google this,
why isn't he in jail, seriously. The best part about all this, someone posted about it on these forums and Darlene deleted that thread.

He can get away with not paying people on this game because it's all volunteer work (Which is absurd, some if not most of these people actually do amazing and creative things for nothing at all). They post that this isn't a paying position and cycle through the community for developers and globals so he can be lazy and get all the profits.

[cbk1994]

As a developer, I would rather see Stefan give some attention to PC Graal than to get paid for my work. There are some very simple things he could do to make life a whole lot easier for us. I think that would go a lot farther in motivating staff members than profit sharing would.

[ff7chocoboknight]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

need i say more?

Do you see Admin's on WoW or any other game putting in all the effort... for free?

Are you dense? You're trying to argue with me and we are both saying the same thing.

[dude2020]

Originally Posted by ff7chocoboknight

Are you dense? You're trying to argue with me and we are both saying the same thing.

It's not exactly voluntarily, if people don't develop, then players get no new content.

also.. I'd like to put it out there that there are developers that put stuff out for free that's amazing....

Originally Posted by dude2020

yadadada

Neg rep with the comment being "uninformed", pls explein. I'd like to be informed

[NicoX]

Everybody should stop putting work into Graal and lets see how Graal turns out at all...

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by NicoX

Everybody should stop putting work into Graal and lets see how Graal turns out at all...

I would disagree with this, we've already seen Graal's management are happy enough to let a server on the Gold tab rot indefinitely. Plus who would ultimately be losing out?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by NicoX

Everybody should stop putting work into Graal and lets see how Graal turns out at all...

There will always be iClassic players willing to "one up" others, and PC Graal doesn't mean much to CJ anymore anyway so...

[NicoX]

Originally Posted by Crono

There will always be iClassic players willing to "one up" others, and PC Graal doesn't mean much to CJ anymore anyway so...

Im sure if the Developers would go into a "strike" they would feel it badly. But this will never happen I guess

[Crono]

Originally Posted by NicoX

Im sure if the Developers would go into a "strike" they would feel it badly. But this will never happen I guess

iClassic players are not hard to please.

[Hezzy002]

iClassic has zero talent on its staff team. iEra's close behind. Half of the people developing for those servers didn't even know that pixel art, programming existed until they started playing on the iPhone servers. It's basically a huge amount of mediocre developers *****footing their way into more content. The way people "script" on the iPhone is horrible; I've seen it. They just look at tons of other scripts and piece them together in random ways until they get something remotely close to what they want. It's pathetic and horrible.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

iClassic has zero talent on its staff team. iEra's close behind. Half of the people developing for those servers didn't even know that pixel art, programming existed until they started playing on the iPhone servers. It's basically a huge amount of mediocre developers *****footing their way into more content. The way people "script" on the iPhone is horrible; I've seen it. They just look at tons of other scripts and piece them together in random ways until they get something remotely close to what they want. It's pathetic and horrible.

Sounds like how Graal used to be before all of us turned into giant jerks. I kinda miss it.

[skillmaster19]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

iClassic has zero talent on its staff team. iEra's close behind. Half of the people developing for those servers didn't even know that pixel art, programming existed until they started playing on the iPhone servers. It's basically a huge amount of mediocre developers *****footing their way into more content. The way people "script" on the iPhone is horrible; I've seen it. They just look at tons of other scripts and piece them together in random ways until they get something remotely close to what they want. It's pathetic and horrible.

scripting for iPhone is incredibly limited unlike pc. You have to use practically no loops or timeouts because of how slow the iDevices are. There are so few things you can do so that explains why most the items are really simple. On pc you can script rather carelessly and stuff will still work smoothly since pcs have generally much faster cpus. On iPhone you have to make a lot of optimizations so you don't lag.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by skillmaster19

scripting for iPhone is incredibly limited unlike pc. You have to use practically no loops or timeouts because of how slow the iDevices are. There are so few things you can do so that explains why most the items are really simple. On pc you can script rather carelessly and stuff will still work smoothly since pcs have generally much faster cpus. On iPhone you have to make a lot of optimizations so you don't lag.

Sorry, but lack of loops/timeouts is not an excuse to not create quality code. Some of the stuff I've seen on iEra is... urgh.

I'm not making a big deal out of it though, because all of us started out with pretty crappy code I'd imagine. I enjoy seeing new players going through the same learning process I did over 10 years ago.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

iClassic has zero talent on its staff team. iEra's close behind. Half of the people developing for those servers didn't even know that pixel art, programming existed until they started playing on the iPhone servers. It's basically a huge amount of mediocre developers *****footing their way into more content. The way people "script" on the iPhone is horrible; I've seen it. They just look at tons of other scripts and piece them together in random ways until they get something remotely close to what they want. It's pathetic and horrible.

You mean how just about all of us were when we were new to Graal?

[ffcmike]

Alright Stefan now that you're back from your vacation I thought I'd bump this.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

So about 2 and a half weeks ago I emailed Stefan + Unix for the 2nd time (first time was ignored again) a German, French and English copy of Classic's micro-transaction plans.
Incredibly, I got a response just 2 minutes later. My astonishment quickly turned into disappointment however, when I read the reply of:

The reason this is funny is not because the email did happen to include the original English copy, but because it implies it would have been read and/or replied to.

Stefan, if there is anything you should feel stupid about, it is the fact that you think of yourself as both a game designer and a business man, while utterly failing to even acknowledge the massive flaws, as well as the proposed solutions or requests for clarification, concerning the cancer you call observer mode.
Either you are ignorant of just how detrimental to gameplay observer mode is, or you are knowingly neglecting an issue which is bad for PC Graal's business.

And I also thought I'd show the response you shockingly managed to muster to my latest email:

Stefan: you mean helping with Gelat items and getting rid of observer mode, or more about future developements?

Seems you were either taking the piss or have a ridiculously short memory.

We have a production-ready server of a particularly high quality imminently awaiting going live, which is perfectly capable of supporting a micro-transaction scheme, has a stable and experienced staff team, and has a high level of scripted security and monitoring. Yet the level of response I have received from you over the last 10 months, regarding the planning and preparation we have put so much effort towards has been utterly pathetic.

I get the fact iPhone is your golden goose and so PC Graal is a low priority, but it would not exist if not for the efforts of countless volunteer developers past and present, yet you still take take take, and never give back, not unless it benefits you directly. How many years were developers asking for you to implement a method to determine the killer with default hit detection?
You ignored these requests for all those years, right up until you yourself required it. I bet if someone offered a port of Graal that allowed a 1:1 transition of servers, a fair subscription policy, and no legal consequences, the vast majority of developers would jump ship.

I haven't even been demanding that you approve such plans, merely that you at least acknowledge them and give a decent response, basically show that you actually give a damn about this game. While I am extremely disappointed with the level of response, the one saving grace is that you do not deserve to be receiving any additional revenue from PC Graal.

[oo_jazz_oo]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

iClassic has zero talent on its staff team. iEra's close behind. Half of the people developing for those servers didn't even know that pixel art, programming existed until they started playing on the iPhone servers. It's basically a huge amount of mediocre developers *****footing their way into more content. The way people "script" on the iPhone is horrible; I've seen it. They just look at tons of other scripts and piece them together in random ways until they get something remotely close to what they want. It's pathetic and horrible.

Originally Posted by skillmaster19

scripting for iPhone is incredibly limited unlike pc. You have to use practically no loops or timeouts because of how slow the iDevices are. There are so few things you can do so that explains why most the items are really simple. On pc you can script rather carelessly and stuff will still work smoothly since pcs have generally much faster cpus. On iPhone you have to make a lot of optimizations so you don't lag.

You know, I rarely post on these forums any more, but I just gotta say how wrong you are...you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. At all.

I am part of iClassics staff team, and to say I have no talent is rather insulting. Or to say that Jerret has no talent. Or to say anyone else for that matter.

And scripting on the iPhone is limited, but not in the ways you have said.
If you can script efficiently and know what you're doing, its not hard. Its identical to scripting on PC.
So...before you go off on the iClassic staff or development, educate yourself.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Sorry, but lack of loops/timeouts is not an excuse to not create quality code. Some of the stuff I've seen on iEra is... urgh.

Which scripts? The code in general is well organized, optimized, documented.

[Elk]

Because this thread is about The Facebook/Web version of Graal

Also to Dusty's comment about the context of iClassic, I couldn't agree more from a gaming psychology point of view

[Felix_Xenophobe]

do people actually play fb graal

[Pandar]

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe

do people actually play fb graal

About 600% the amount of players that play PC Graal, yes.

[Felix_Xenophobe]

Originally Posted by Pandar

About 600% the amount of players that play PC Graal, yes.

**** i gotta get in on some of that action

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe

**** i gotta get in on some of that action

It's over-rated unless you like your hats...ALOT

[Godoco]

Originally Posted by unixmad

3) We are releasing an Android version
The Android release will come either in April

4) New developer tools
New Developer Tools including level editor will be released in Mai and June

Hate to bump. But what happened to this ?

[Admins]

It's not always easy to plan, for the dev tools we were planning to hire someone but he got family problems. We are working on quite exciting things but if we only get such feedback here (deleted some posts) then we should probably not announce anything.
The Android version was already ready 4 years ago but we are hesitating with the release because we want to make sure it will be popular. It should be available sometime this year though