New Terms of Service

SlikRick · #1 03-09-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Welcome to Unholy Nation. These are the rules and regulations that players are required to follow. Failure to follow these rules will result in various punishments. Thank you.

Hacking/Glitching
1.)Hacking is a no tolerance situation. If you are caught hacking, an immediate 30 day ban will be placed, if not more.
a.Hacking will be defined as use of any 3rd party program to directly influence the game in any way shape or form.
b.Sending out hacking links will be held under this stipulation as well.
2.)Glitching will also not be tolerated. If a person is using a method to glitch in order to gain any sort of items or access to areas, they risk reset or ban. If you find a glitch, please report it.

Harassment
1.)Harassment is defined as anything that will disturb or upset another person.
a.Harassment may be done on player, in mass messages, or in private messages.
b.Harassment can be calling people unwanted names, continuous engagement with a player who has asked to be left alone, or threatening a player with text.
c.Harassment includes sexual and racist remarks.
d.Harassment also includes giving out personal information about a person (facebook, myspace, personal photos, name, phone number, address, etc.) without the player's consent.
e.This does include staff members as well. If a staff member asks you to leave them alone, for whatever purpose they may need (testing, dealing with other issues, etc.), please leave them alone.
2.)The general rule of thumb for harassment is to respect one another's personal bubble. If someone feels like their bubble is being infringed on, they have a right to report it.
3.)We promote the ability for people to have lively debates in mass messages. Just make sure to keep it civil and respectful of others.

Vulgarity
1.)UN will have a limited swearing mentality. By limited swearing, we mean that a few words here and there are okay. However, directing those swear words to anyone else, are not to be allowed.
a.Example: ****, that sucks versus You are a piece of ****.
b.The amount allowed is under the discretion of staff.
2.)Pornography in any form will not be allowed. This can be in message, image, or video form. No warning will be needed for this.
3.)Any discussion of illegal drugs will not be tolerated in mass messages, toalls, or public areas. If you want to talk about it, take it to private messages or private areas.

Sparring.
1.)Spar running, laming, or disrupting spars via spamming is not allowed.
a.A spar ban or a jail will be imposed for these infractions.
2.)Blocking doors in the spar room can be grounds for jailing. Please allow others to enjoy the various rooms of the spar complex.

Jailing
1.)Staff do not have to give a warning to jail. A warning is considered a privilege, not a right.
2.)When you are jailed, you are jailed until the amount of time is served or after one month of being in jail for one jailing sentence.
a.This rule will not apply for more serious infractions, including bans.
3.)If you are jailed 3 times within a week, your next jail will be an automatic 14 day ban.
4.)If you are jailed 5 times within the month, your next jail will be an automatic 14 day ban.
5.)If you are banned once, your next ban will higher. (14 days to 30 to 60 to unlimited)
6.)Logging onto another account to play while you are jailed will not be tolerated. This will result with the alternative account being jailed and both accounts having an increased jail sentence.
a.Bans will be the same way. Ban evading will extend the time of both accounts.

Unholy Nation also follows the Graal Terms of Service that is outlined on the website http://www.graalonline.com/docs/agreement.

Unholy Nation staff reserve the right to modify and enforce these rules as deemed necessary.

By pressing accept you agree to abide by the rules set by Unholy Nation.

Is this for real? This limits the rights of players and strengthens the power of staff, and even TAKES AWAY being warned, which has been something to happen on Graal for a decade. It gives the staff of UN, which I know some are not, more of a reason to be corrupt and do whatever they want. Although I do agree with some of them, I feel that the rest is nothing more than an act to give them more power then they already have over the players that occupy the server.

Fulg0reSama · #2 03-09-2012, 07:16 AM

I must admit, these rules are awful vague in certain point-outs.

Also, I've logged on a few times onto the server with this agreement popping up, I do not stay on long and I've also logged out without accepting terms, but I do have one question; Why is there no right to deny?
Is this a Terms of Service agreement or a Code of Conduct?

Considering I do not have a law degree, I am not familiar with the said differences.

DustyPorViva · #3 03-09-2012, 07:22 AM

Not sure what the problem is. Pretty much ANY game ToS can be summed up in once sentence:

"We reserve the right to disallow access to your account at any given time."

Pretty sure they could jail/ban you before without warning anyways. Do you really think their ToS gives you more or less rights? At the end of the day your account is still being handled by a bunch of people who volunteer their time, have no obligation to remain fair and just, and play the same game with the same people they're meant to approach with an unbiased attitude. If a problem arises, contact PWA as Graal rules > PW rules.

SlikRick · #4 03-09-2012, 07:22 AM

I personally think that the globals need to take a look into this because it seems more like a Dictatorship than anything else. Do what I say, or you will be imprisoned.

Fulg0reSama · #5 03-09-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Not sure what the problem is. Pretty much ANY game ToS can be summed up in once sentence:

"We reserve the right to disallow access to your account at any given time."
.

Understandable, but how come it isn't addressed then?

This seems to just dictate what will happen if you are qualified for any action we've described here.

Could they not simply state that?

SlikRick · #6 03-09-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Graal rules > PW rules.

This is exactly the problem. They are trying to override the rules of Graal. I agree that if there is a problem contact PWA, but at the same time a player should be given the right to be warned to stop their actions before an action is taken. These new "rules" take that way, so you have to deal with an injustice while you wait for the PWA to handle it. Sometimes their fast, other times they are not.

DustyPorViva · #7 03-09-2012, 07:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Understandable, but how come it isn't addressed then?

This seems to just dictate what will happen if you are qualified for any action we've described here.

Could they not simply state that?

Because they need a clause that says they can ban/jail without warning. People feel that because they pay money in a game that somehow rules don't apply to them, or that their account is worth more than a player that has no money linked to it.

"What do you mean that because I massed tons of porn that I was banned... WITHOUT WARNING!? DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY I SPENT ON THIS SUBSCRIPTION!?!"

I didn't read the entire thing, but what exactly concerns you people? Seems like typical stuff to me, and again ALL OF THIS APPLIED BEFORE anyways. They're just spelling stuff out for some reason. Pretty sure there are tons of people who have been banned/jailed without warning or even reason. Again, take it up with PWA if a problem arises. Just because they SAY they can ban you without reason doesn't mean that suddenly their rules > graal ToS, and that they can just go banning anyone they don't like(which again, they could do before these ToS were apparently updated).

Starfire2001 · #8 03-09-2012, 07:33 AM

So this might be a bit of an overreaction, considering these rules you are taking issue with have been the server rules which you could access by pming the npcserver "serverrules" for the past couple years... just now in gui form so that people actually know about them and can't claim ignorance.

Fulg0reSama · #9 03-09-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

So this might be a bit of an overreaction, considering these rules you are taking issue with have been the server rules which you could access by pming the npcserver "serverrules" for the past couple years... just now in gui form so that people actually know about them and can't claim ignorance.

I never knew about that NPC-Server pm business, might I ask how before GUI this would've been known?

I simply have an issue with the right to be able to both accept and decline, because you can easily do that in any other ToS i've ever dealt with.

http://mmohuts.com/wp-content/galler...craft-eula.jpg

DustyPorViva · #10 03-09-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

I never knew about that NPC-Server pm business, might I ask how before GUI this would've been known?

Probably told you in the server PM that there are a list of commands you can send to the server, such as serverrules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

I simply have an issue with the right to be able to both accept and decline, because you can easily do that in any other ToS i've ever dealt with.

Not really. Plenty of ToS have no way to actually "deny" them. For example with movies if you open the case you automatically agree to the terms. Many games have that if you login/play you agree to their terms. Plenty of EULA/ToS sneak in agreement clauses with various tricks. But does none of this even matter? I feel people are getting worked up over things that really don't matter. People will just accept any ToS because denying means not getting access. Would you stop playing UN? Also forcing a person to a ToS or EULA or whatever without their direct input(ala clicking 'I agree') typically doesn't float well in court.

The point however is all of this is very typical MMO ToS stuff. They need a clause saying they can ban/jail without warning because every situation is unique and needs to be approached differently, and some justify action without warning. Even the Graal ToS has this clause in it.

SlikRick · #11 03-09-2012, 07:48 AM

The basic matter is this, they are trying to take rights away from the players that beforehand they had; such as subject to warning before a jail/ban. UN has always been known for corrupt staff, once again not all of them are like this, but this gives them more freedom to do whatever they like.

DustyPorViva · #12 03-09-2012, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlikRick

The basic matter is this, they are trying to take rights away from the players that beforehand they had; such as subject to warning before a jail/ban. UN has always been known for corrupt staff, once again not all of them are like this, but this gives them more freedom to do whatever they like.

lol what? So if I had massed porn before hand I had to be warned before I was banned? What about CP?

Anyways it's something reflected in Graal's ToS anyways so you never had these rights as a player in the first place.

Again, standard MMO stuff. Don't get worked up over nothing. And no it doesn't give them the freedom to do whatever they want, it simply means if they have to do something about something then they can without worrying. And I say for the last time PWA and Graal ToS still overrule this anyways. They can't just go banning people for no reason.

All of this is just screaming overdramatic.

Crono · #13 03-09-2012, 07:57 AM

nice lets highten our enforcement on a dwindling playercount

smart choice guys a++

Fulg0reSama · #14 03-09-2012, 07:58 AM

You're right Dusty, I suppose If I decide I want to decline, I simply don't play. I am persuaded

If you wish to not accept, then don't everybody, because it actually doesn't force you in the first place

DustyPorViva · #15 03-09-2012, 07:58 AM

The rules have been cleared up probably for the sole fact of making it easier for players to understand what is and is not against the rules. It probably helps GP/staff to be more unified in their actions as well.

You say it as though discretion and approaching each problem as it is its own problem is a bad thing. It's not.

SlikRick · #16 03-09-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

.

Again, standard MMO stuff. Don't get worked up over nothing. And no it doesn't give them the freedom to do whatever they want, it simply means if they have to do something about something then they can without worrying. And I say for the last time PWA and Graal ToS still overrule this anyways. They can't just go banning people for no reason.

But by the time you get a hold of PWA and get it reversed, players have lost time. This is especially harmful for players with Gold Only time and they lose days on their time on a server they like to play because of this.

Fulg0reSama · #17 03-09-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Not sure what you're getting at here. Rules have been cleared up probably for the sole fact of making it easier for players to understand what is and is not against the rules. It probably helps GP/staff to be more unified in their actions as well.

You say it as though discretion and approaching each problem as it is its own problem is a bad thing. It's not.

Read my deleted message reason, it is not relevant as I decided to rethink my reply.

DustyPorViva · #18 03-09-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlikRick

But by the time you get a hold of PWA and get it reversed, players have lost time. This is especially harmful for players with Gold Only time and they lose days on their time on a server they like to play because of this.

Maybe. But if this gets out of hand then UN is going to be in a lot of trouble. Do you think that multiple reports of banning without reason is going to be tolerated? It won't be(or shouldn't be... but if it's not treated appropriately then why play in the first place?).

Like I said. EVERY MMO EVER HAS THIS SORT OF CLAUSE. Just because it wasn't written out before doesn't mean it wasn't applied. You're not losing any rights, they're just being more transparent about it.

SlikRick · #19 03-09-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The rules have been cleared up probably for the sole fact of making it easier for players to understand what is and is not against the rules. It probably helps GP/staff to be more unified in their actions as well.

You say it as though discretion and approaching each problem as it is its own problem is a bad thing. It's not.

I'm all for discretion in certain issues, but it does not imply what issues require it or not. This leaves a big loop hole for staff to exploit. And I agree with your porn comment that you've had, that is not acceptable. At the same time of these rules, staff limits need to be set to avoid a Dictatorship, where what I say goes and if you go against me you will be killed.

Fulg0reSama · #20 03-09-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

You're not losing any rights, they're just being more transparent about it.

This is true.

But might I ask how this changes for those who wish to argue against the persecutors themselves? Bring a PWA to cause a ruckus? That's inefficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlikRick

This leaves a big loop hole for staff to exploit.

I'd also like to state that this also does have small holes for players to exploit as well.

SlikRick · #21 03-09-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

This is true.

But might I ask how this changes for those who wish to argue against the persecutors themselves? Bring a PWA to cause a ruckus? That's inefficient.

I'd also like to state that this also does have small holes for players to exploit as well.

Small holes compared to the big ones the staff are allowed to exploit to their advantage.

papajchris · #22 03-09-2012, 08:22 AM

I can't believe you guys are making a discussion out of this. Any server has the right to punish you without warning. Your warning is agreeing to the new rules. We all know what is jailable and bannable offenses. If you dont, read the rules...

fowlplay4 · #23 03-09-2012, 08:29 AM

lol UN ToS, awesome.

The GUI is pretty bad (too small) and wasn't even centered properly on my screen.

DustyPorViva · #24 03-09-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlikRick

Small holes compared to the big ones the staff are allowed to exploit to their advantage.

You act as though staff wouldn't do shady things before; as though they need to use holes to exploit in the first place, as if this is something that will be scrutinized under a legal court. If they wanted to ban you before without warning they would have. If they want to ban you now without warning they will. Do you think now that there is a rule staying they can, that if they do other staff will not question it? That PWA will not question it? If someone bans a player because they don't like them, and another staff questions them about it and they say "rules allow me to ban without a reason" and the staff don't do anything about , I've got a surprise for you: They wouldn't have done anything about it before. Nothing has changed.

Apparently you managed N-pulse. Surely you had a "ban without warning when justified" mentality. It's standard stuff.

Starfire2001 · #25 03-09-2012, 09:17 AM

This is from 347 days ago from the in-game UN forums.

Okilian
"If you pm the NPC-Server 'ServerRules' you will notice that the rules have been updated.

Please read them as you are expected to follow them when signing on to Unholy Nation. If there are any concern, feel free to message me here to discuss them.

Thanks"

These are the same rules that are being discussed right now. They haven't seemed to cause any problem in the last year they have been in place. The gui was just added in the (vain) hope that players (mainly new players) might read them.

EDIT: Also just made the gui bigger and properly centered it.

cbk1994 · #26 03-09-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

1.)UN will have a limited swearing mentality. By limited swearing, we mean that a few words here and there are okay. However, directing those swear words to anyone else, are not to be allowed.
a.Example: ****, that sucks versus You are a piece of ****.
b.The amount allowed is under the discretion of staff.

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

Geno · #27 03-09-2012, 12:29 PM

Elizabeth for manager, we need change

BlueMelon · #28 03-09-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

Agreed.

Quote:

Sparring.
1.)Spar running, laming, or disrupting spars via spamming is not allowed.
a.A spar ban or a jail will be imposed for these infractions.
2.)Blocking doors in the spar room can be grounds for jailing. Please allow others to enjoy the various rooms of the spar complex.

Those two can be fixed. Contact your local scripter.

Draenin · #29 03-09-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

This.

MysticX2X · #30 03-09-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

Even if the word is starred out, they will still jail you...

Crono · #31 03-09-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

because that would actually make sense.

Starfire2001 · #32 03-09-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Why not just use a clientside swear filter so players can swear all they want and staff who are offended by naughty words don't have to look at them?

This exists (*SwearFilter). Generally, from what I see, another players feels harassed by the "naughty words" and then reports it to the GPs, or it's something going on in oms or mass messages, its not like the staff team are a bunch of prudes or something.

I'm not saying every situation is handled perfectly or every GP is perfect or anything, so please no sob stories, but I haven't personally ever had any problems with UN GPs ever regarding bad language, both before I was staff and since. Unless you are cursing someone out or being racist you are pretty safe.

Fulg0reSama · #33 03-09-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

I'm not saying every situation is handled perfectly or every GP is perfect or anything.

I can confirm this considering I was once jailed for simply calling a GP fat.

Cubical · #34 03-09-2012, 11:45 PM

I was jailed on UN for like 3 years because the jail script broke and everyone ignored me when I pm'd them asking about it. It took me participating the Era/UN Olympics to finally get out of jail.

NicoX · #35 03-10-2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubical

i was jailed on un for like 3 years because the jail script broke and everyone ignored me when i pm'd them asking about it. It took me participating the era/un olympics to finally get out of jail.

lol

SlikRick · #36 03-10-2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Apparently you managed N-pulse. Surely you had a "ban without warning when justified" mentality. It's standard stuff.

The only bans I allowed to happen,without warning, while I was manager was willful destruction of the server, deleting files, etc., and hacking.

DustyPorViva · #37 03-10-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlikRick

The only bans I allowed to happen,without warning, while I was manager was willful destruction of the server, deleting files, etc., and hacking.

Exactly. You allowed it, therefor there was a "clause" for it, so to say. If it can happen, then in a set of rules typically you should disclose that it CAN happen. That's all that's going on here.

Fulg0reSama · #38 03-10-2012, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Exactly. You allowed it, therefor there was a "clause" for it, so to say. If it can happen, then in a set of rules typically you should disclose that it CAN happen. That's all that's going on here.

That's two different scenarios.

Rick was protecting the actual server's stability. Which yes is the same goal as UN's, but I'm certain that the scenario of why it had been allowed could have changed whether a warning was necessary or not.

These rules are merely dictations of punishment for committing them, They appear to say that they don't need to warn you AT ALL, no matter the situation.

DustyPorViva · #39 03-10-2012, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

That's two different scenarios.

Rick was protecting the actual server's stability. Which yes is the same goal as UN's, but I'm certain that the scenario of why it had been allowed could have changed whether a warning was necessary or not.

These rules are merely dictations of punishment for committing them, They appear to say that they don't need to warn you AT ALL, no matter the situation.

No it's not different. They would ban without warning if needed. It doesn't matter if it's for server stability, it's still the point that they would ban someone without warning them. UN is simply telling players that it can happen if it needs to happen. This is important because not every situation is the same. Massing porn for example. Maybe massing goatse would qualify to let them off with a warning, MAYBE(and that's being lenient). But massing CP? Does that mean because the rules say you're allowed a warning first that massing CP would get you off with a warning since it was just your first time? Do you think that's acceptable? No. Therefor the disclosure makes sense.

I seriously don't see what the hell all the commotion/confusion is about.

Fulg0reSama · #40 03-10-2012, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

No it's not different. They would ban without warning if needed. It doesn't matter if it's for server stability, it's still the point that they would ban someone without warning them. UN is simply telling players that it can happen if it needs to happen. This is important because not every situation is the same. Massing porn for example. Maybe massing goatse would qualify to let them off with a warning, MAYBE(and that's being lenient). But massing CP? Does that mean because the rules say you're allowed a warning first that massing CP would get you off with a warning since it was just your first time? Do you think that's acceptable? No. Therefor the disclosure makes sense.

I seriously don't see what the hell all the commotion/confusion is about.

Goatse I'm certain would not be a warning at all. Last I checked the ******* is as offensive as any other part of the middle region of the body, back or front.

But back on topic: I think I'm understanding better, I promise my intention isn't to play devil's advocate.
Like you said, there's commotion and confusion, I'm merely on the confused portion.