Castle Quest Released

[ffcmike]

After 5 months of work, with some 50+ levels prepared towards the overall project, the Castle dungeon is at last released.

For one final time those up to date with previous quests can talk to Master Li to begin the Castle.
A Notebook entry has also been added to all players who have obtained the sword, which becomes completable after the Castle quest.

As stated before, this quest has always been our planned target for shifting the focus off of quest development, and on to community based content in preparation for the server going live.
So I expect to post information regarding Event plans and ideas in the not too distant future.

With the reward of a full heart at the end of the Castle, it is important to note that health is now defaulted to 3 HP within spar, PK and Event levels.
Players health is however restored to its original value upon exiting into a normal level.
Similarly it is planned for sword power to be defaulted at level 1 should level 2 be released in future, whereas walk speed has always been defaulted to level 3 speed in these levels.

It is also worth noting changes that have been made to the cycle of gelats since the release of the Tomb quest.
Gelats are no longer dropped via PKing, and only via dieing within a quest, or as a result of a baddy, where they are then only visible to the owner and not obtainable by others.
Once again, dropped gelat count is stored to the player, and then deducted from whenever a killed baddy drops gelat.
The gelat value now varies according to the strength of the baddy, something simple such as a bat can only drop a green gelat, whereas a baddy soldier can drop a blue gelat.
The ratio dropped upon death has been halfed, while the ratio of dropping via killing a baddy has increased, albeit there is little significant purpose to gelats until a later time.

[Tricxta]

YAY, I've been waiting for this day to come for ever! Does this mean new content will appear quicker now or will you save it up for a big update?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Tricxta

YAY, I've been waiting for this day to come for ever! Does this mean new content will appear quicker now or will you save it up for a big update?

Depends on your definition of content. The focus will be primarily on Events now, which for some time will be more about getting extra core systems for them in place, but I hope to eventually have test play nights on a weekly or bi-weekly basis sooner or later. Don't forget we already have the Team Events system which basically keeps control of any team based event such as CTF with little extra work.

[maximus_asinus]

release this ***** already

[Tricxta]

I played through it, it's a really well thought out quest. It's just a bit too easy when certain staff spill the beans on tactics >_>

[ff7chocoboknight]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Crono]

well im currently stuck and have no idea what to do so...until a faq logs on i suppose.

[smirt362]

This ladder doesn't work. Also, having to get damaged by the boss to kill it is kinda stupid.

[Tricxta]

That ladder works for me o_0

[smirt362]

Originally Posted by Tricxta

That ladder works for me o_0

It worked for me after I reconnected, sometimes they just don't work though.

[Luda]

wtf is with the difference in tiles??

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

well im currently stuck and have no idea what to do so...until a faq logs on i suppose.

It doesn't really help anyone to just say "I'm stuck" without explaining the problem. With more information, not only could could someone (and not necessarily a staff member) provide a solution but it would be there to see should someone else encounter the same problem and see this.

I can say however that the solution was for you to simply fall down the top right side of the level with the cannons, in order to fall down into an inaccessible part of the level on the lower floor.

Originally Posted by smirt362

This ladder doesn't work.

That's odd, I've never received any other reports of them not working. I know it would be possible to become stuck should you lag out as there's a scripted warp involved, otherwise I can only really wait until someone experiences it again then attempt to debug it.

Originally Posted by smirt362

Also, having to get damaged by the boss to kill it is kinda stupid

Admittedly it's something unordinary for quest bosses, but then it's still possible to defeat the boss without dieing despite this, and even more so when helped by the slight advantage that can be gained in carrying a rock into the boss room beforehand. It is also why there are 2 moles rigged to drop HP.

Originally Posted by Luda

wtf is with the difference in tiles??

[Seeker99]

Blarg! I can't figure out to hurt this dem boss, other than that this quest was pretty awesome!

[Galdor]

Guess I have to download graal again xP

[Seeker99]

Finished the quest, it was awesome! Even better than all of those dungeons I loved on Minish Cap!

[Luda]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

These tiles don't match the other ones that take up majority of the level and I'm sure majority of the quest as well

[DustyPorViva]

There definitely seems to be a huge jump in quality between various graphics, and I can see that just from screenshots.

[Demisis_P2P]

I really really like those tiles though!

However, I'm always conflicted about that style of levelling; where all four walls are visible.
One one hand it lets you put doors visibly on all four walls, and it feels much more true to LTTP.
But on the other hand all of the other objects inside the level start to look out of perspective and it creates a weird visual effect.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It doesn't really help anyone to just say "I'm stuck" without explaining the problem. With more information, not only could could someone (and not necessarily a staff member) provide a solution but it would be there to see should someone else encounter the same problem and see this.

I can say however that the solution was for you to simply fall down the top right side of the level with the cannons, in order to fall down into an inaccessible part of the level on the lower floor.

yup did it all yesterday.

boss fight was disappointing. i didnt even know what to do until gambit walked in and told me you had to slash him twice near a wall.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

i didnt even know what to do until gambit walked in and told me you had to slash him twice near a wall.

That's actually wrong.
Have to just slash him 3 times within a certain amount of time for him to smash you into a wall.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

That's actually wrong.
Have to just slash him 3 times within a certain amount of time for him to smash you into a wall.

excellent boss design when players have to be told what to do without anything remotely hinting at the proper way to go about it. the mechanic itself is pretty stupid and counter-intuitive. i just spammed while against the wall.

the baddy that throws rocks at you was more clever than this guy. based on this mini-boss i initially assumed you were supposed to collect bombs from the moles and throw them at him like you did previously, but that would make too much sense and actually show some decent design and progression.

: - )

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

excellent boss design when players have to be told what to do without anything remotely hinting at the proper way to go about it.

In the scene that occurs before the fight begins, the boss is shown to be slashed and hurt, which can suggest the need to slash it, and the baddy is shown to be slammed into the wall.
I suppose I could make one rock fall down at this point in order to hint at that part.

Originally Posted by Crono

based on this mini-boss i initially assumed you were supposed to collect bombs from the moles and throw them at him like you did previously, but that would make too much sense and actually show some decent design and progression.

If this was the case I'm sure there'd be complaints about the solution being over-done and predictable.
Nevertheless the solution to the boss does require the throwing of an object similarly to the miniboss, just using the tool that was obtained after defeating the miniboss, which seems like decent design and progression to me.

[Demisis_P2P]

there should be a quest with a giant zorbi mini-boss and the room slowly fills up with water during the fight and you have to get out and hit a switch to drain it all again because every time the zorbi is under water he regenerates some health and spawns more baby zorbis. also something to do with jolt bombs and water idk.

because remember how you have that cool water filling room? thats what reminded me.

[Geno]

****ing epic.


I figured out everything without the need of an FAQ :o

maybe dumb luck 0:?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

In the scene that occurs before the fight begins, the boss is shown to be slashed and hurt, which can suggest the need to slash it, and the baddy is shown to be slammed into the wall.
I suppose I could make one rock fall down at this point in order to hint at that part.

Zeldaisque games always educate the player through first-hand experience. A lot of the time the mini-bosses serve as a warmup and hint at a possible mechanic you need to consider for the end boss. Throughout the dungeon you used bombs to knock the soldiers off the guns, so I'd think a smart player would have assumed bombs were to way to go at the end, only to find out the moles don't drop them. A player's first reaction is to try slashing, but once you see the troll blocks it you want to quickly move from fear of a counter-attack. Not only is that common behaviour in these types of games vs NPCs, but vs players aswell.

If this was the case I'm sure there'd be complaints about the solution being over-done and predictable.
Nevertheless the solution to the boss does require the throwing of an object similarly to the miniboss, just using the tool that was obtained after defeating the miniboss, which seems like decent design and progression to me.

The thing is, throwing the rock at the boss is incredibly simple. The boss moves so slowly that you're under no pressure to move or dodge anything. Once you figured out that you needed to spam on the boss against a wall, it became way too easy and a disappointing end to what seemed like a pretty decent Graal quest.

Keep in mind that my train of thought while doing these quests is from the perspective of the casual player. I can settle for trial and error, as that's how it usually ends up going on any Graal server, but I actually want Classic to come out with SOME level of quality. There's too many counter-intuitive designs all over the quest, which may work for the average player, but is not a good thing to have. A good example is the bit where you need to step off the platform and into the pit...RIGHT after you dodge cannon balls in an attempt NOT to fall in the pit. Getting hit on purpose by the boss...when the entire PvE experience was doing anything you can to dodge and not get hit. These are small points that are very easy to fix and go a long way.

[Geno]

nig you are hardcore

[Crono]

ya thats my monthly dose of productive advice

no more of that for a while

[Geno]

xD

[Galdor]

>=O I got stuck on second key I cant find it.... brag some more geno >=O
edit: racil helped me xP

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

A good example is the bit where you need to step off the platform and into the pit...RIGHT after you dodge cannon balls in an attempt NOT to fall in the pit.

I'm not sure that this is a good example. Once you've pulled the chain across the ledge the focus is shifted to a previously locked opening door in the top right corner of the level, where the floor is marked out infront of where you can fall down.
If you have fell down the pit into the level below, or if it occurs naturally that you're now above that same level, you'll have seen a key on top of the inaccessible cliff at the top right of that level.
The same thing happens in LTTP.

[MattKan]

I've died nearly six times now due to the fact that you're unable to strike the baddy without being hit yourself.

Not very fun so far because of this.

[maximus_asinus]

I have found a bug that makes the quest unbeatable because you get trapped behind an invisible wall.

[Tricxta]

Can't you just use "unstick me"? lol

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Tricxta

Can't you just use "unstick me"? lol

Yes, but when you break this specific part going back to it even after closing/opening Graal does not fix the problem and there is a permanent barrier.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Yes, but when you break this specific part going back to it even after closing/opening Graal does not fix the problem and there is a permanent barrier.

Ah, I've found the problem now, luckily it was only temporary.

[ffcmike]

Changed the boss + baddy part to provide more of a hint:

[Emera]

It's looking fantastic ^_^

[Crono]

good

[smirt362]

Originally Posted by MattKan

I've died nearly six times now due to the fact that you're unable to strike the baddy without being hit yourself.

Not very fun so far because of this.

You can kill the moles for health, but its still a pretty long drawn out process to kill him

[Bell]

Originally Posted by smirt362

You can kill the moles for health, but its still a pretty long drawn out process to kill him

Life isn't easy