You're welcome, Eurocenter

[oo_jazz_oo]

The system of "You pay us to make stuff, we sell it, you get nothing" will only work for so long...
Look at Graal development now. Theres not much going on...maybe with a few servers, but as a whole, nothing is happening. UN is a pretty good example of that.

Once the developers get tired, and once there aren't any more good developers, what is Stefan going to do? Re-re-release classic as another server? Oh wait, hes doing that already.

The least Stefan could do is give us adequate development tools. -_-
They charge us to make them content, dont give us proper tools, then charge us to play.
If they dont want to give a cut of the money to developers, couldnt they at least help us make content?

They throw some 10 year old tools at us, then take the content we make with them, slap em on a new platform, and re-sell it.

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

=Of course, I have agreed to this deal, and it is fully legal, no disagreement there. But why would they do this? It certainly isn't drawing a good image of them, and it certainly is scaring a lot of talented people away. It is also the source of a lot of negativity in the game, due to how mixed the developers and players are.

Why complain now? This has been going on for about a decade now, on and increasing scale, yet this is the first universally agreed upon "Stefan/Unix are leeches" debates.

Nothing major has changed, other than them charging to upload shields. Remember when they decided to charge you to play certain servers? And, then charge you to play classic servers. And, then take away the "lifetime classic" subscription?

You've been paying money to upload (use the tools, same thing) in one way or another for years now.

Originally Posted by oo_jazz_oo

They charge us to make them content, dont give us proper tools, then charge us to play.

Because, that is the game! That is what Graal is! For the past 5 years or so, I would imagine that like 50% of the playerbase was involved in development somewhere or another. And, that's probably low balling it.

They are charging you for the game. You aren't doing graal any favors. You're making something for yourself and your friends. Does graal, in some way or another, benefit from that? Yes. That's the give and take.

[salesman]

You can spin it however you want, but it comes down to one simple fact: Graal makes money off of content made by paying customers without giving them any kind of compensation. Do they have to give us compensation? No. Should they? Maybe. If they did, I doubt it would be anything extraordinary.

If you really think you have what it takes to make money off of your work, go somewhere else. There are plenty of free game engines/frameworks out there that you can use. However, keep in mind that the Graal engine is extremely easy to use in comparison. Graal gives you an already fully functional game before you write a single script or create a single graphic.

edit: you can't do something for free and then turn around and complain that you're not getting paid. You knew what you were getting yourself into. It's not like they're lying to you about what they offer.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by salesman

you can't do something for free and then turn around and complain that you're not getting paid. You knew what you were getting yourself into. It's not like they're lying to you about what they offer.

Just because I've agreed to something doesn't make that thing good. There is room for improvement and I'd like to see it happen.

Originally Posted by Mykel

Why complain now? This has been going on for about a decade now, on and increasing scale, yet this is the first universally agreed upon "Stefan/Unix are leeches" debates.

Nothing major has changed, other than them charging to upload shields. Remember when they decided to charge you to play certain servers? And, then charge you to play classic servers. And, then take away the "lifetime classic" subscription?

You've been paying money to upload (use the tools, same thing) in one way or another for years now.

I can't speak for others, but personally I still play this game and still develop on this game, so every moment of this sub-par situation affects me directly. Why would I not discuss it, given that?