Classic Graal for iPhone

[Vima]

Congratulations!!
Who won the betting? I think it was Soala?

[Deas_Voice]

o.O congrats!

[12171217]

The rocks in the water look like, really bad.

The only thing I don't mind is the interior of the spar arena.

[Dnegel]

Nice work Graal Iphone!

1337 people next?

[salesman]

Some of those tiles aren't too bad, but the cliffs, rocks, trees, bushes, and signs are disgusting. I can understand why you would want to change them, but don't use the first crappy tiles you can just get for the sake of change.

[DustyPorViva]

They're iGraalian's.

[DarkCloud_PK]

All and all, our opinions as PC Graal players on classic iPhone are moot to the developers to be perfectly honest. Its a completely different market targeted here, the iPhone players, who unlike us, are a hefty majority of Graal 'virgins'. Whatever direction that brings players in and have graal be successful in that market is going to be the direction it goes in.

I'm not saying those tiles aren't godawful, because they are. For the most part though, that's just another opinion here from another developer who has spent years on the PC version of this game. Unlike experienced PC players and devs, iPhone players don't really know the technical and development aspects of anything about this game. They don't know what this game really is or what it used to be, like we do.

Just in general, this is a different breed and generation of players altogether, so their opinions of content in general is going to be different. To new players, the graphics might look like an upgrade from what we used as default pics1.png since like 2002-2003.(i don't remember when tbh, whenever they did the major changes to the trees and stuff)

In essence, you could call this a rebirth of Graal on a different platform. Things obviously aren't going to be the same this time around. Look how the PC version turned out after awhile anyway, so I hope it doesn't go the same this time around.

Stefan shouldn't be calling us whiners though, we are trying to give him our feedback on things, albeit communication could be more polite on both sides, but calling people giving negative feedback about stuff "whiners" isn't very professional, even if you don't care about what the PC players think of what should be done on the iPhone server.

So the real question is, what those iPhone players think of everything that is being added or changed from what we are used to?

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

So the real question is, what those iPhone players think of everything that is being added or changed from what we are used to?

They feedback their opinion quite frequently. In fact in the news we asked them for their feedback on the new levels.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Originally Posted by Nataxo

They feedback their opinion quite frequently. In fact in the news we asked them for their feedback on the new levels.

That's the feedback that ultimately matters. I've always been an advocate of a server listening to its players. So I hope the tiles and gfx get changed if the general opinion of them are negative as they are here.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

because they are

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

"whiners"

It's nice that people prefer my tiles over the much superior tiles from the newworld project, but it's impossible to ignore everything that has been said on more than two pages and just do a normal conversation acting like the other side is actually caring about what you say. Some people on this forum have such a narrow view on things that it's almost laughable. Why not actually talking about what is fun and what is not fun about Classic iPhone instead of comlaining over and over again about stuff that has nothing to do with the Classic iPhone project.

See the Classic PC project: Some people were complaining over and over again that Classic needs a client-side hit detection and ignored the fact that it needs to go back to the original gameplay and create new stuff like quests instead of talking about details no one cares about. It's like 'OH NO! THERE IS A TILE ERROR!" when you could just play or work on your own interesting Graal server project.

I hope the discussion can go back to the topic

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's nice that people prefer my tiles over the much superior tiles from the newworld project, but it's impossible to ignore everything that has been said on more than two pages and just do a normal conversation acting like the other side is actually caring about what you say. Some people on this forum have such a narrow view on things that it's almost laughable. Why not actually talking about what is fun and what is not fun about Classic iPhone instead of comlaining over and over again about stuff that has nothing to do with the Classic iPhone project.

See the Classic PC project: Some people were complaining over and over again that Classic needs a client-side hit detection and ignored the fact that it needs to go back to the original gameplay and create new stuff like quests instead of talking about details no one cares about. It's like 'OH NO! THERE IS A TILE ERROR!" when you could just play or work on your own interesting Graal server project.

I hope the discussion can go back to the topic

Gut gesagt XD aber sowas von recht

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why not actually talking about what is fun and what is not fun about Classic iPhone instead of comlaining over and over again about stuff that has nothing to do with the Classic iPhone project.

So instead of complaining about updates that make the server uglier we should repeat why we love Graal so much? Also there's nothing superior about the NW cliff tiles. Maybe have a GDT edit the colors or something idk.

Originally Posted by Elk

Gut gesagt XD aber sowas von recht

XD

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's nice that people prefer my tiles over the much superior tiles from the newworld project, but it's impossible to ignore everything that has been said on more than two pages and just do a normal conversation acting like the other side is actually caring about what you say. Some people on this forum have such a narrow view on things that it's almost laughable. Why not actually talking about what is fun and what is not fun about Classic iPhone instead of comlaining over and over again about stuff that has nothing to do with the Classic iPhone project.

See the Classic PC project: Some people were complaining over and over again that Classic needs a client-side hit detection and ignored the fact that it needs to go back to the original gameplay and create new stuff like quests instead of talking about details no one cares about. It's like 'OH NO! THERE IS A TILE ERROR!" when you could just play or work on your own interesting Graal server project.

I hope the discussion can go back to the topic

I've never played the iPhone server, Xor showed me around once and things have changed since then so can't really comment too much other than from screenshots and videos I have seen and again having to talked to several of the players that had logged onto the PC server (that also happen to think that the tileset changes are "shoddy"), I don't see any reason to believe people are playing it due to any type of solid gameplay, but I believe the one thing it has going for it is quite simply the sheer huge playercount you can interact with.

While it's a little disappointing from a Classic player perspective to see so many with a nickname starting with Apprentice/Co-Leader/General/Leader etc Guilds are something that help encourage player interaction, something that can also be achieved through Sparring, PKing and Events though I don't think much effort has been put towards this yet.

With regards to Quest related content, i'm not sure if there is supposed to be any direction with that but I did notice that yet more of the Classic levels were taken in the form of the Gnome Caves for the tutorial server, this time being from a later date than the initial iPhone level set.
Again I don't know if they're being used or in what capacity but I think you'd have to do alot more than copy those to the server to create a Quest setup that would be attractive.

Something else to consider is Economy related content, Gralats are something that are required for purchasing + furnishing houses, aswell as creating Guilds, yet the only method of obtaining them last I heard seems to be cutting bushes and paying for them with real money which again I can't imagine being very attractive.

You bring up the point about the issue the PC server had with Hit Detection (although there were plenty of other issues that were raised), yet instead of further focussing on types of Community based content, or exploring alternative aspects of gameplay, you yourself seem to have focussed on the pointless and insignificant update of changing the tileset and building appearances, which unlike the Serverside Hit Detection we used to have on Classic no players had actually complained about the tiles used before.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

you yourself seem to have focussed on the pointless and insignificant update of changing the tileset and building appearances

I suspect Nintendo lawyers had something to do with this, or else they never would of been replaced, and it's just not worth fighting to get kicked off the App Store over some tile gfx.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

I suspect Nintendo lawyers had something to do with this, or else they never would of been replaced, and it's just not worth fighting to get kicked off the App Store over some tile gfx.

If true then fair enough, though this doesn't explain why the cliff tiles were replaced as they are not the same as from LTTP whereas castle tiles are exactly the same, and again i'm hearing that most players on iPhone dislike what it has been changed to.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

While it's a little disappointing from a Classic player perspective to see so many with a nickname starting with Apprentice/Co-Leader/General/Leader etc

Apprentice and Leader are the default rank names that's why you see many with those names Guilds are quite big on Classic iPhone, almost everyone is wearing a guild tag.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Apprentice and Leader are the default rank names that's why you see many with those names Guilds are quite big on Classic iPhone, almost everyone is wearing a guild tag.

I didn't mean for my post to come across as a criticism, I was bringing up Guild activity as one of the aspects that are pushing Player/Community interaction which ofcourse is something you're in a good position to utilise, I just find it unusual because Classic guilds didn't typically include the rank name as part of the nickname.

[fowlplay4]

Well anyone is more than welcome to propose new cliff tiles, or at least a fixed version so they connect properly.

[xAndrewx]

http://www.graalzone.com/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4160731AAWrvwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkifoxfOe5g


interesting

[Crono]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

http://www.graalzone.com/

interesting

this was before classic iphone :3

[xAndrewx]

oh- lolol

[DustyPorViva]

I find the legal thing baffling as there is absolutely nothing ripped in the slightest. Everything was redone, what could they be sued for?

[DustyPorViva]

Sorry, Stefan, but you really do take our criticisms way too harsh. We all have the best interests in Graal -- if we didn't we wouldn't care at all. Many people have congratulated Graal on the success of the iPhone server. 1000 players is astonishing, especially compared to the PC version. But that doesn't mean that everything is fine, or should be treated as such.

The truth is the new changes do look bad, and it's not a personal bias or anything. The NW cliffs are sketchy and unfinished, have absolutely no shading and are broken. I never liked the NW stuff from the moment I saw them. They might have worked back then but now they're way outdated.

I personally don't think my tiles are quite fitting within pics1, and everything looks miss-matched. I think pics1 by itself was quite fitting and would suffice well enough. Redoing pics1 is not an easy task, and if it's to be done it should be done well, and from scratch.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We reached more than 1000 players on one server yesterday evening Plus 160 on the tutorial server.

I've been saying the same thing since you got published on Engadget, but I'll say it again now - congrats.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Sorry, Stefan, but you really do take our criticisms way too harsh. We all have the best interests in Graal

Over the last six months Stefan has become more vocal and open about his opinions and ideas than he has been in the 7 (unfortunate?) years I've known him. It is something that, regardless of the message, really makes me happy. It brings a sense that maybe this ship isn't sinking as fast as we all think, and maybe - if we all work together - we can get it bailed out and back on the right track.

That's where we need to concentrate.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I've been saying the same thing since you got published on Engadget, but I'll say it again now - congrats.

Over the last six months Stefan has become more vocal and open about his opinions and ideas than he has been in the 7 (unfortunate?) years I've known him. It is something that, regardless of the message, really makes me happy. It brings a sense that maybe this ship isn't sinking as fast as we all think, and maybe - if we all work together - we can get it bailed out and back on the right track.

That's where we need to concentrate.

I agree to an extent. I love that Stefan is getting more involved with the community, but that doesn't make it okay. I'd just like to see them more accepting of criticism rather than always dismissing it. A lot of us put our time and effort into trying to better Graal for no other reason than to try to make it a better place -- look at all the people who have contributed to free tiles thread, all the code gallery scripts, the tutorials and such, and so many other countless people. Yet we all get handwaved when we try to say anything negative, even if the complaint has a solid backing because apparently we are whiny and ungrateful? I think many of us have been more than patient with Graal more than once.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I agree to an extent. I love that Stefan is getting more involved with the community, but that doesn't make it okay. I'd just like to see them more accepting of criticism rather than always dismissing it. A lot of us put our time and effort into trying to better Graal for no other reason than to try to make it a better place -- look at all the people who have contributed to free tiles thread, all the code gallery scripts, the tutorials and such, and so many other countless people. Yet we all get handwaved when we try to say anything negative, even if the complaint has a solid backing.

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

And all the congratulations and kudos in this thread is not appreciation enough? What the hell do you think warrants enough appreciation? Also, he needs to be accepting of criticism regardless of how much appreciation he gets -- this is a business, remember?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

Are you even reading what he's saying?

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Stephen

That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings.

Whose feelings are hurt? You aren't being very clear and the only person who seems to be taking offense to anything in this thread is Stefan.

[Door]

I actually feel bad. Stephen is doing an excellent job of spewing some of the most inane garbage possible, and he's portraying himself as a representative to Stefan.

It's pretty clear that listening to criticism is an important aspect of any organization. Leaders of any sort are completely powerless if they have no one to lead, or rebellious people to lead. Considering the fact that we pay for Graal, we have every right to criticize, and Stefan should be personally begging us for input.

Stefan: You should be thanking us for what we have to say; you should care about the people who like the things you make, especially when you are charging them for it. We play this game because we like it, not because we want to make you happy. And when we complain, it's because we want the game to be better, not to insult you. Stop taking things personally. If you're going to be a leader then you need to handle situations and work with the people you are leading, not throw a child's fit whenever something is said that you don't agree with.

Stephen: Just shut up.

[Old_Days]

Originally Posted by Door

I actually feel bad. Stephen is doing an excellent job of spewing the some of the most inane garbage possible, and he's portraying himself as a representative to Stefan.

It's pretty clear that listening to criticism is an important aspect of any organization. Leaders of any sort are completely powerless if they have no one to lead, or rebellious people to lead. Considering the fact that we pay for Graal, we have every right to criticize, and Stefan should be personally begging us for input.

Stefan: You should be thanking us for what we have to say; you should care about the people who like the things you make, especially when you are charging them for it. We play this game because we like it. And when we complain, it's because we want the game to be better, not to insult you. Stop taking things personally. If you're going to be a leader then you need to handle situations and work with the people you are leading, not throw a child's fit whenever something is said that you don't agree with.

Stephen: Just shut up.

This statement should be put in the worlds best statement book, I will give you like a million reps for this. Im glad someone doesnt actually suck up to someone whom they are paying in the first damn place.

Ive stopped playing this game for reasons like this. But Door you just hit the nail right on the head. You arent afraid to challenge authority, which is mostly what everyone else needs to do, in order for things to change.

I love you now Door.

Forever.

[12171217]

Originally Posted by Old_Days

This statement should be put in the worlds best statement book, I will give you like a million reps for this. Im glad someone doesnt actually suck up to someone whom they are paying in the first damn place.

Ive stopped playing this game for reasons like this. But Door you just hit the nail right on the head. You arent afraid to challenge authority, which is mostly what everyone else needs to do, in order for things to change.

I love you now Door.

Forever.

Three pages of "challenging authority" and you pick this post out?

[Old_Days]

Originally Posted by 12171217

Three pages of "challenging authority" and you pick this post out?

Yeah, have a problem with that?

[Admins]

Classic iPhone is quite chaotic right now, we reached 1024 connections which Linux doesn't like, trying to fix it

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Classic iPhone is quite chaotic right now, we reached 1024 connections which Linux doesn't like, trying to fix it

echo 65535 > /proc/sys/fs/file-max

Possibly different for whatever distro you are using.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

echo 65535 > /proc/sys/fs/file-max

Possibly different for whatever distro you are using.

It's already higher, but select() can only use up to 1024 sockets, changed the gserver to not use that anymore, will see if its working better now, we are again approacing 1024 players

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's already higher, but select() can only use up to 1024 sockets, changed the gserver to not use that anymore, will see if its working better now, we are again approacing 1024 players

Hopefully you changed it to something sane like epoll.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

Hopefully you changed it to something sane like epoll.

No, just trying 100 times each second to read/write data

[Crono]

does classic iphone store graphics the way the pc one does? i mean, download everything into folders etc?

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crono

does classic iphone store graphics the way the pc one does? i mean, download everything into folders etc?

Yes.