Who do you respect the most on Graal?

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Door

Like I said in mine, we tried being positive for a long time. Things have only gotten worse. I think really you have no defense to what I said in that post at all, since the only points you brought up are
A. We are too negative (already addressed it in my earlier post and here), and
B. You know all this already.

Oh?

You..
You know all of what I said already? Wow. Well thanks for confirming everything that I just said. You know it all already, yet you're 'trying to make things better' by telling us to shut up and be happy with the rubbish that is Graal?

As far as I'm concerned, you and the other PWAs deserve of a lot more respect than Stefan and Unixmad do. Or at least you would, if you weren't acting as their brownshirts. That's all I see right now, and in my opinion, your post says it almost outright. You knew all of what I said already. You agree with everything but my negativity, which has already been explained a million times--it's the only thing we have left to try, after working so hard to be positive for so long. All of this, yet you still defend shutting us up, telling us that our complaints are invalid, that we needn't be negative, that we shouldn't speak badly about the people who are taking our money and doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

So what if we don't want to develop? We're not paying to do the work for Stefan and Unixmad, we're paying to play a game. We shouldn't have to change it at all to be happy with it. We should definitely never be expected to do the advertising, make all the content, and design a website for the game we're paying to play.

People who make servers should not be paying for them at all. They are bringing in new players and thus revenue to Cyberjoueurs, so they should be welcomed to develop and perhaps even given a cut, if this was set up fairly. People who devote their time and money to this game without showing their distaste for how unfair it is are not saints, however. Like you Tig, these players only encourage and by allowing it to happen and even funding it. Go ahead and keep paying those two up at the top to do nothing, and let's see how soon they get a change of heart and decide to suddenly start working for what they earn.

No updates, no gratitude, they don't even show themselves on the forum.

Didn't you say something about how you wanted a new website design in order to inspire Stefan to become involved again or something along those lines? This coming from a high admin in the game, so I trust your word there. Sounds like perhaps even you are coming to the end of your line, and I don't blame you there at all. I think it's time that we step back and say that we won't be paying anymore when it is totally unfair. Rather than advertising the game to get in new ignorant victims, we should be telling them to stay away, boycotting. That is what having a free market is all about.

But instead we just stay here and complain, because we complainers are too good-natured to use such aggressive tactics, even though they certainly are more called-for than what we do now.



Ditto for you, toots.

oh shut up; long diatribes and rants about "what should be done" don't work on who you are actually trying to talk too, and these guys have heard it too many times for it to be repeated. the only thing you can tell the moderators and PWA and other types of global staff is that unless they quit doing their job and no one steps in to do it for them, then CJ and all the other "higher ups" are not going to fix anything. they won't step in and create content for something they don't get a lot of revenue from, and frankly i bet has caused them more trouble than they asked for both on the internet and in real life

until everyone stops doing the work, and instead create some sort of demand for action from them, we will see more of the same. of course the only way it could get any worse is if they close down the game entirely

or this thread gets closed and replies deleted and everything is covered up; that's usually what happens

[Door]

Originally Posted by Hiro

oh shut up; long diatribes and rants about "what should be done" don't work on who you are actually trying to talk too, and these guys have heard it too many times for it to be repeated. the only thing you can tell the moderators and PWA and other types of global staff is that unless they quit doing their job and no one steps in to do it for them, then CJ and all the other "higher ups" are not going to fix anything. they won't step in and create content for something they don't get a lot of revenue from, and frankly i bet has caused them more trouble than they asked for both on the internet and in real life

until everyone stops doing the work, and instead create some sort of demand for action from them, we will see more of the same. of course the only way it could get any worse is if they close down the game entirely

or this thread gets closed and replies deleted and everything is covered up; that's usually what happens

Have a sense of self-empowerment, man! We can and do make a difference in this game all the time. In fact we the players are the only ones who do! So it's our duty to ourselves and to the game itself to do our best to improve it. If long diatribes and rants about "what should be done" are all that you can manage, why not do them?

I'm not much for programming or art, for management or marketing.. but I am good with words (at least I think so), and I think that, whatever it is you're good at, you should always use it to make a difference or at least try to.

This is life, it's not some kind of blob that just shifts us through one moment to the next. It's something we are constantly changing and affecting ourselves. If you just sit back and let things be controlled by the few on top who know how to make it work for themselves, then you're not only giving yourself the short end of the stick, but all your peers and comrades as well. Stand up for what you know is right, regardless of how little you can say or do. Every little bit counts, and with enough effort from everyone, we can make a HUGE difference here!

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Door

Have a sense of self-empowerment, man! We can and do make a difference in this game all the time. In fact we the players are the only ones who do! So it's our duty to ourselves and to the game itself to do our best to improve it. If long diatribes and rants about "what should be done" are all that you can manage, why not do them?

I'm not much for programming or art, for management or marketing.. but I am good with words (at least I think so), and I think that, whatever it is you're good at, you should always use it to make a difference or at least try to.

This is life, it's not some kind of blob that just shifts us through one moment to the next. It's something we are constantly changing and affecting ourselves. If you just sit back and let things be controlled by the few on top who know how to make it work for themselves, then you're not only giving yourself the short end of the stick, but all your peers and comrades as well. Stand up for what you know is right, regardless of how little you can say or do. Every little bit counts, and with enough effort from everyone, we can make a HUGE difference here!

i've been silenced from doing so on more than just one occasion i can think of. the fact is, it's masses of players that make the difference, not just one or even a couple. we can all agree and talk about things, sure, but once mass action takes place to hurt the powers that be in a place that forces them to act, and the action isn't bottle-necked by some different form of "player's" opinions and goals, then we aren't going to get any answers. i'm not even sure they listen to their global staff on these issues, and they're their global ****ing staff |8

i agree with you on all points about graal, and on all points about action. but, as you may have read in this thread, i'm not a respected person on the forums, nor are many people; only a few are well known throughout graal and have access to the types of floors to actually discuss these issues with people who run the game, and they are not apart of the action we players want to see, and they agree with us

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Hiro

only a few are well known throughout graal and have access to the types of floors to actually discuss these issues with people who run the game, and they are not apart of the action we players want to see, and they agree with us

Right, because we just sit around and do nothing....

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Right, because we just sit around and do nothing....

no, you put forth action and receive nothing - it's much, much worse

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Door... I can say with utmost confidence, that any major form of boycotting would get Graal shut down faster than we would have time to come on the forums and complain the boycott not working. This is why, for that reason, that is not an option for improving Graal.

exactly, but it seems to be one of a few choices that would produce results, but it's also shooting ourselves in the foot. the current silence will just continue otherwise, but doing something can result in the game being erased

[Door]

Originally Posted by Hiro

i've been silenced from doing so on more than just one occasion i can think of. the fact is, it's masses of players that make the difference, not just one or even a couple. we can all agree and talk about things, sure, but once mass action takes place to hurt the powers that be in a place that forces them to act, and the action isn't bottle-necked by some different form of "player's" opinions and goals, then we aren't going to get any answers. i'm not even sure they listen to their global staff on these issues, and they're their global ****ing staff |8

i agree with you on all points about graal, and on all points about action. but, as you may have read in this thread, i'm not a respected person on the forums, nor are many people; only a few are well known throughout graal and have access to the types of floors to actually discuss these issues with people who run the game, and they are not apart of the action we players want to see, and they agree with us

Well not to be rude at all, cuz I totally appreciate any and all agreement, but right now you are part of the effort to stop players from getting together in mass. I know exactly ywhat you mean, and I agree, but it doesn't just happen by itself. Just as the description suggests, everyone needs to pitch in, everyone needs to be positive and contribute in some way, whatever way they can manage.

C'mon man, hop on the bandwagon! For once it's not to mock someone or spread a joke meme, it's to actually attempt at making a real difference for real people, including you and me.

WE CAN DO THIS, GUYS!