Better Terrain for GK (formerly "My Suggestions")

[Galdor]

I think GK should have terrain similar to Warcraft 3 (and no Darlene that is not
another mmorpg it just has a multiplayer mode (we been fighting about that for
a while ))
so you could actually have some level design and like have 3d
trees and cliffs ect (and if you haven't tried Warcraft 3's world editor its even
easier to make levels with that then with graals 2d editor)
so when your walking around you could actually recognize places and be like
"hey! Ive been here before" instead of the boring generated do not care feel
that you get from the current "overworld" and more monster types and
dungeons and stuff that would be awesome ... And of course remove the
stupid food and weight system that doesn't add anything to the fun factor


DAMMIT! I missed a word in the poll and cant change it..... The world is not fair

[Elk]

Agreed

I would even help galdor making textuers for the models!
For free (!!!!!!!)

[Kalyssa]

I personally think that people love graal for what it is currently, why do you want to change it?

[jonnyrocks2]

Because the current isn't fly enough.

[xickrey]

use milkshape for 3D lol some one posted a tutorial..
he used some zodiac stuff

[Elk]

Someone posted a tutorial?
Well, that was Galdor.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Kalyssa

I personally think that people love graal for what it is currently, why do you want to change it?

uhh yea but graal dont have THAT many players these days I think some change would do good.

[Crono]

Help me make my idea of Graal 3D a reality. :'(

[Elk]

We help you crono!

[Galdor]

Yea if you improve the g3d editor so it works like Warcraft 3 (and not only use it for gk) then its gonna be so super easy to make 3d playerworlds... could maybe also have animated water with sky reflection and layer tiles =D

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Galdor

Yea if you improve the g3d editor so it works like Warcraft 3 (and not only use it for gk) then its gonna be so super easy to make 3d playerworlds... could maybe also have animated water with sky reflection and layer tiles =D

Lol dude I think this is way out of CJ's league at the moment.

[Jcs1919]

Agreed but it going to be hard to work on 3d level

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Crono

Lol dude I think this is way out of CJ's league at the moment.

I dont think so, sky reflection and animated water already exist on graal 3d, the ground texturing almost works as good as on Warcraft 3 just need some fixing, placing objects could use some work tho but other then that its not too far off just need cliffs, a better UI and the camera in graal perspective :]

[kia345]

wtf is this graal3d crap you keep mentioning

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Galdor

I dont think so, sky reflection and animated water already exist on graal 3d, the ground texturing almost works as good as on Warcraft 3 just need some fixing, placing objects could use some work tho but other then that its not too far off just need cliffs, a better UI and the camera in graal perspective :]

I'm referring to the editor itself. The 2d one hasn't even been updated relative to the 'progress' made on the client, a 3d one would require much work.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by kia345

wtf is this graal3d crap you keep mentioning

I dont know its Cronos fault >=O

[Tigairius]

I have said this 100 times to many people, but I'll say it here as well... I really do agree, I would love to see an overhaul of the 3D terrain and I would even be willing to remake the entire world if it meant we could have a more realistic feel to the terrain... vertex shaded water that actually moves and possibly little waves on the shore... an arc around things moving in the water to make it actually look like you're moving through water for ships, players, etc instead of just recoloring the bottom of things to be blue... It would also be nice to have some scripted controls to be able to control the color of the water too, giving us the ability to make lava, swamps, etc.

Food system and weight system are semi-important to GK, especially the weight system, so I'm not for removing that, but perhaps revamping the food system to be more interesting. Feel free to throw your ideas at me for that, I'm all ears.

Getting realistic water and land on GK is a dream of mine that I don't think will ever happen, but if you think you can make it happen, be my guest. It would require a lot of help from Stefan though (setting up the engine, etc)...

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I have said this 100 times to many people, but I'll say it here as well... I really do agree, I would love to see an overhaul of the 3D terrain and I would even be willing to remake the entire world if it meant we could have a more realistic feel to the terrain... vertex shaded water that actually moves and possibly little waves on the shore... an arc around things moving in the water to make it actually look like you're moving through water for ships, players, etc instead of just recoloring the bottom of things to be blue...

Well realistic was not what I was thinking, I just want a more advanced terrain so that you can make some level design and of course make the game prettier, Warcraft 3's terrain is not that advanced but still tons better then Graal Kingdoms and its also easy to use so its something to aim for =)

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Food system and weight system are semi-important to GK, especially the weight system, so I'm not for removing that, but perhaps revamping the food system to be more interesting. Feel free to throw your ideas at me for that, I'm all ears.

Well sure but in a game where you can collect items its not that awesome to be slowed by that, imagine if you had that on classic the more items you get the slower you move unless you boost ur speed (like everyone does) untill you moves ridiculously fast just like if you had staff boots, im not sure but I assume that effects pvp alot :P

As for the food thing I just don't see a reason for it, food should just heal if your wounded or so.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Getting realistic water and land on GK is a dream of mine that I don't think will ever happen, but if you think you can make it happen, be my guest. It would require a lot of help from Stefan though (setting up the engine, etc)...

No I cant make it happen. And yes it would require Stefan's help to improve his own game.

[calani]

Improved 3d terrain definitely has my vote, though I'm more interested in improving the water. That's something that I've wanted since I started playing GK: jumped in the water the first time and thought it was neat to change the sprites purple, but there wasn't anything else. Took almost a year or so for staff to finally add bubbles...

Improved 3d terrain would be great, too: at current, the only non-passable terrain is around the mountains where there are npcs blocking the way. That really doesn't cut it. While I doubt caves and such would work with the current engine - no camera to move - cliffs would, as well as rivers. I hate how the only places that can have water is anywhere with a z <= 0. Could add a basic current implementation too: if the player is in water above z=0, move the player slightly toward an area with a lower average z. To get it really accurate, you'd have to add pathfinding so it follows the course of the river, but I think that would be more than is necessary.

For water, I completely agree with vertex shaders. Not everyone has cards that support them, but probably three quarters or more of gk's players' do. Cards lacking shader support are getting less and less common. The actual shader code would be pretty simple, too. Apply a repeated water surface texture, then add random-ish peaks for waves, and have them diminish as they spread out. Could angle their movement with wind, too. As they spread, stretching the poly faces out further would make it look much more fluid, and would cause the water to appear to lap at the beaches. Adding a pixel shader in conjunction with that to alter the texture slightly based on z and/or speed could add whitecaps and froth for added effect. Adding an enable/disable option in f3 video options would stop it from lagging people with older cards.

Could also add a variation on the 'realtrees' for seabed detailing - seaweed, coral, shells, sunken chests, etc. Would open the door for adding diving later, and then perhaps underwater cities for Zormite But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I think these improvements would add a ton to gk, and would definitely increase it's appeal. As with crossfire: content only goes so far. New players care about looks more than anything else, and that is what hooks them.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Food system

Food is for regaining hp/magic, so why do we eat when we're full? That's the equivalent of eating when you're not hungry. I'm not fat.

Food should deplete at an almost unnoticeable pace, until you need to regain health or something.

[MajinDragon]

I would love for GK to get a makeover like this, have a feeling it would be another failed project though...

Erm @thosewhoquestionfoodandweightsystem: They're key elements of the game, used for tactical play and realism. With the weight system, one is given an almost endless limit of regular items (obviously not heavy items in bulk) to carry as long as you have the strength for it. And the food system means players have to prepare better for fights, engage in cooking or hunt for their food. I actually feel the food bar shouldn't have been made to go down slower, it was pretty perfect, i think people felt the effects of not eating because they were fighting/levelling without rping propely to stop, make/buy food and then proceed to venture out again (you'll probably all cry: shadap bile noob).

Voted Awsome !

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

I actually feel the food bar shouldn't have been made to go down slower, it was pretty perfect

It was annoying.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

It was annoying.

Something being annoying shouldn't be removed when their's nothing wrong with it... When i was not bile (4 years ago?) i coped with it by putting a stop to my hunting and idling (biggest waste of food bar, waste because pking is useful). And in that time, making food for myself, or killing shell bomys/wolves/trex's for their meat. It was a new and simple dynamic in the game, people cried because they are too lazy, and probably, because they felt good food wasn't avaliable easy .

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Something being annoying shouldn't be removed when their's nothing wrong with it... When i was not bile (4 years ago?) i coped with it by putting a stop to my hunting and idling (biggest waste of food bar, waste because pking is useful). And in that time, making food for myself, or killing shell bomys/wolves/trex's for their meat. It was a new and simple dynamic in the game, people cried because they are too lazy, and probably, because they felt good food wasn't avaliable easy .

How does being annoying not mean something wrong? Annoying is not a good thing for gameplay. Ever.

[cyan3]

Nothing is wrong with the food system because it's main purpose is to regen health and mana so to solve the problem of food just put it in a sack until you need to regen.

[Soala]

GK is laggy enough plz =[
I guess I'll have to buy a better comp if everything gets done.
Nice ideas btw.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by cyan3

Nothing is wrong with the food system because it's main purpose is to regen health and mana so to solve the problem of food just put it in a sack until you need to regen.

Why do we eat when we don't need to regen?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by cyan3

Nothing is wrong with the food system because it's main purpose is to regen health and mana so to solve the problem of food just put it in a sack until you need to regen.

Well nothing is wrong with it now.

[Darklux]

Who needs new terrain?

GK is nice and functional, I'd rather like to finally see all damage types realized... Would be a cooler place to put some effort, not on some eyecandy...

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Darklux

Who needs new terrain?

*raises hand*

Originally Posted by Darklux

GK is nice and functional, I'd rather like to finally see all damage types realized... Would be a cooler place to put some effort, not on some eyecandy...

Well... yea GK is the best game ever but I almost think there could be improvements to both the gameplay and to the graphics

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

How does being annoying not mean something wrong? Annoying is not a good thing for gameplay. Ever.

No game is perfect for anybody, there will ofcourse be things you feel are annoying but are there to add something to the game. It's easy for something to annoy you when it's in your face. Fact is, you could deal with food, just most people are so damn lazy they'd rather have it abolished or not even feature. I mean seriously most of the time your food runs out due to idling/pking. But you can make food... You can buy food... Hell, you can dig up food. Don't even see how it was annoying... Just something you gotta do.

Originally Posted by kia345

Why do we eat when we don't need to regen?

It'd be a stupid concept if you only needed to eat whenever you got hurt. Think it keeps people moving around and having to think about how their playing more, and not just idling or hunting endlessly (possible with high ac).

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well nothing is wrong with it now.

It was better before

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

No game is perfect for anybody, there will ofcourse be things you feel are annoying but are there to add something to the game. It's easy for something to annoy you when it's in your face. Fact is, you could deal with food, just most people are so damn lazy they'd rather have it abolished or not even feature. I mean seriously most of the time your food runs out due to idling/pking. But you can make food... You can buy food... Hell, you can dig up food. Don't even see how it was annoying... Just something you gotta do.

Yea but most games are "perfect" enough for more then around 30 players to enjoy them.
And for the lazy part of course people are going to want to get rid of stuffs they just don't find fun in a game.

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

It'd be a stupid concept if you only needed to eat whenever you got hurt. Think it keeps people moving around and having to think about how their playing more, and not just idling or hunting endlessly (possible with high ac).

... If there was fun and enjoyable gameplay & content people wouldn't idle as much, so having some sort of "starve system" to fill up for fun and enjoyable gameplay & content just doesn't sound that awesome in my ears

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

It was better before

...

But im all for making a Graal Kingdoms 2 if people don't want to make big changes xD

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by Galdor

(...And for the lazy part of course people are going to want to get rid of stuffs they just don't find fun in a game...)

Thus shooting in the own knees. I dont find it fun that I have to pay in the ingame shops to get my desired items, whos with me!? Alright, just remove it.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

Thus shooting in the own knees. I dont find it fun that I have to pay in the ingame shops to get my desired items, whos with me!? Alright, just remove it.

what?.. well I think there's a difference between something that is forced on you and you die and farts fire if you don't and something that you can choose to do.

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by Galdor

what?

Im not surprised that you dont understand.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

Im not surprised that you dont understand.

I guess im suppose to feel offended but... no

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by Galdor

I guess im suppose to feel offended but... no

Ain't supposed to be an offense.

There is just a twist to assess consequences of inconsiderately changes.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Galdor

what?.. well I think there's a difference between something that is forced on you and you die and farts fire if you don't and something that you can choose to do.

It's not really forced, it's a part of the game. A very small one. And it's very easy to avoid it by just eating... The one change i think that should have been made to food is that trials shouldn't feel the effects of hunger. It's offputting to a new player to have to deal with such a thing. Just think about it, half of the poor souls walk around aimlessly, not even knowing where to get a shield, food is the last thing they want to be worrying about. Aside from that, i feel that all paying players should have the old food rate but possibly under level 10 should have a reduced one, like the current.

[Draenin]

Stop hatin' on terraingen maps. They're actually very fun to work with if you can do it properly. I am a big fan of them even if the landscape is very flat-looking, because it's good for stuff Kingdoms has, like arcing arrows, cannonballs, and so forth.

Why not just create new building structures and war devices and so on? The thing that makes Kingdoms look so featureless is that it really doesn't have many features besides houses and fences to begin with. I don't see why more monuments and locations aren't introduced in the areas that are most blank. I mostly see people revising things we already have when there's still a lot of useless, open space in the world.

I've worked with terraingen gmaps in the level editor, and they're quite awesome indeed. It makes me sad that more servers don't use them.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Stop hatin' on terraingen maps. They're actually very fun to work with if you can do it properly. I am a big fan of them even if the landscape is very flat-looking, because it's good for stuff Kingdoms has, like arcing arrows, cannonballs, and so forth.

Why not just create new building structures and war devices and so on? The thing that makes Kingdoms look so featureless is that it really doesn't have many features besides houses and fences to begin with. I don't see why more monuments and locations aren't introduced in the areas that are most blank. I mostly see people revising things we already have when there's still a lot of useless, open space in the world.

I've worked with terraingen gmaps in the level editor, and they're quite awesome indeed. It makes me sad that more servers don't use them.

yea but sorry this idea will make it way more awesome :P thats just how it is.