New Manager

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Secondly, I'd like to know why some of the issues players are bringing up now regarding the validity of the PWA review weren't addressed from the very beginning (such as "the PWA don't play Classic, how can they make a decision").

I assume that most people believed that, although they didn't play classic, the PWAs would do a thorough enough investigation to get the opinion of the majority, and, combined with their own opinions, decide on who the new manager would be, if one was needed at all.

[Minoc]

So.. when's the old content going to be converted and uploaded?

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Minoc

So.. when's the old content going to be converted and uploaded?

The old content isn't worth using, didn't you know? That's why it was all left behind 4+ years ago by the one with ultimate wisdom.

[jorollychu]

looking back, thor was an excellent choice for manager but having 2 managers is ****ing stupid. when ibonic became comanager with storm production slowed down even more.

[DutchGuy]

Fact is,

Thor is a blind fool, who does only what he thinks is right. No communication skills (even i can type better, then he communicates with the people of classic)

Master Storm is a inactive fool, who has a perfect excuse for everything, and sums away every suggestion made by the players, because he also thinks HIS GOAL is the ULTIMATE GOAL.

conclusion:

2 stupid people were selected to lead classic to a place where it already was, which is at the bottom of the drain. This choice was made by people who could be my freakin lil brothers of 5 year old. I mean Bell is over 50 years old, and she let 2 kiddo's decide what's best for classsic, while she is a classic player from the beginning.

Every choice that has been made in the last 5 years, has been the wrong one. And all the people who made these choices for the server should be fired and banned from graal. They made classic what it is now, a pile of poop.

Assign some people who are new, who share classic moments, and are willing to listen to the community of classic, and maybe add stuff that the players made. Back in the days staff always added stuff made by the user. Nowadays they just follow their own agenda, they are full of their own greed. It's time someone steps up and put them on their number.

So here's my ****list:
-Thor
-Master Storm
-Ibonic
-Xiao_Dun (or whoever he is)
-Tig
-TSAdmin

And here is my wishlist:
-Tyhm
-Stryker
-Night
-Bell.

That's about it.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Reading this thread is very disappointing.
I really hope that all of you will find a way to accept the PWA's decision, and try to work together for the better of Classic.

sorry but i must say i am not accepting the pwa decision , that was the worst thing iheard so far

[DarkCloud_PK]

Does someone want to fill me in on what a deflective answer is?
That would be pretty nice.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by DutchGuy

So here's my shiitlist:

If you want to be taken seriously, you might want to avoid getting your post deleted for avoiding the swear filter.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Reading this thread is very disappointing.
I really hope that all of you will find a way to accept the PWA's decision, and try to work together for the better of Classic.

then don't read it

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Luda

then don't read it

Yea, that would solve everything....

[Luda]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Yea, that would solve everything....

ya shut it

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Luda

ya shut it

Let's...not start this kinda thing.

[Cetellic]

Originally Posted by DutchGuy

-Xiao_Dun (or whoever he is)

That'd be me pal, and you epically failed on every point of our discussion to the point where you ran away and went AFK... so how did I make your list ROFL?

[jorollychu]

gotta agree with luda

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Who are your two primary whiners? I think I've exposed more flaws in the process than anyone and I had no agenda.

The people I'm talking about are people I've openly criticized throughout this entire process. They know who they are. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you're probably not on the list of whiners.

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

I assume that most people believed that, although they didn't play classic, the PWAs would do a thorough enough investigation to get the opinion of the majority, and, combined with their own opinions, decide on who the new manager would be, if one was needed at all.

The PWA's experience involving Classic should have been called to attention from the very beginning, along with various other issues. It seems petty to bring it all up after everything has been concluded just because some didn't get their way. I acknowledge that some people have valid complaints to question the review's validity (like Stryker), but most are complaining for various other reasons such as; they didn't get into the Manager's position they've been pining to get into, don't like who the PWA appointed on a personal level, or was told to complain. Again, all pretty childish and petty reasons to complain.

Then there are the people who are bringing up the two Manager system. I have mixed feelings regarding this. Your primary example is using a fairly unstable individual (Ibonic) and a very inactive Storm. I think the variables have changed quite a bit (if Storm chooses to stay active, and Thor continues to be a rational person). BUT in the end, you might be right. There might be some issues regarding various projects in the future, but I'm hoping the PWA will actively monitor the server and resolve issues before they become too volatile. We can't make any decisions just yet. We need to give the who thing a little time so we can see how it'll turn out.

Also still looking for those poll results.

[BlackSolider]

True, we should probably give em some time before we hang em.

[GeminiP2P]

I thought everyone was suppose to vote for Storm to stay as Manager or vote DC, Stryker or Thor as a new manager. Don't really know where having two Managers came from and it's a pretty stupid outcome since this didn't go as planned, maybe the new PWA's did something stupid like ignoring all the votes and just deciding that having two Managers is acceptable which clearly seems it isn't because it looks like they didn't do what they were required to do. This is what I think for now maybe i missed some stuff.

[Kill]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I could have walked around on Classic with the 2 or 3 people that were on each day over the past couple of weeks until my virtual feet bled, but no amount of walking around on the server was going to get my review input to be swayed by something like
"This tile looks like it's been inactive for 4 years"
but since merely being on the server didn't seem to be productively moving anything along, it was a good thing that the people still had a voice.

I meant your team didn't ask every staff for their views on the matter - especially the ones with the highest administrative privileges (such as Stryker and Ranger), they also didn't look at other Classic forums such as the GC forums since looking at private forums only show a positive light on development and never the reality of things (for example the awful HD which could've been shown to you in a good light when in fact it was anything but).

The moments in which I was able to get in contact with a tiny mass of people on Classic at one time, all I got were a 3-4 man strong set of "DC Supporters" who only moaned and complained how they wanted DC as Manager, but honestly avoided most of my questions by giving deflective answers, so I knew that DC would never get manager as he were one of the people in the room, as well. You can't hope to reach the top if you deflect everything.

I can't talk for everyone else but I personally did reply to questions that were asked, and I did compare with other candidates and gave a justified reason as to why I believed this person would've been better than another person. If they gave deflective answers; you should've done your part and said that so they could answer the question you were trying to imply to avoid them changing the direction of their answer.

Originally Posted by GeminiP2P

I thought everyone was suppose to vote for Storm to stay as Manager or vote DC, Stryker or Thor as a new manager. Don't really know where having two Managers came from and it's a pretty stupid outcome since this didn't go as planned, maybe the new PWA's did something stupid like ignoring all the votes and just deciding that having two Managers is acceptable which clearly seems it isn't because it looks like they didn't do what they were required to do. This is what I think for now maybe i missed some stuff.

I suppose you were told to post here too, right Gem?

[GeminiP2P]

I came here myself to check it out and i've been reading some of the pages but not all and it looks all wrong! And anyway in my opinion the decision made looks like a wrong one. Whoever made the decision must have thought like "oh lets add Thor as Manager it will probly be for the best". I don't think it is and i've kind of noticed a drop in playercount since this decision was made. Oh well I guess this will carry on till something is done about it. In the mean time complaining will continue.

[DutchGuy]

I remember Master Storm sending me a PM somewhere around the 30th of september last year 2008 saying

Regarding my Activity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw you post regarding my activity level being greater on the forums than on the server. If you weren't already aware I recently moved into a new job and apartment in London and we don't yet have an internet connection set up (in fact we've only just got a phone line up). The only time I can get online is during work, and even then I have to fit what I do around my work. As you can probably appreciate I'm not currently able to get online.

All staff were made aware of the situation beforehand, and I've been in constant email contact with both Bell and Thor about the state/progress of the server.

Realise that I want to be on Graal, but in the short term am unable to do so.

So the admins were aware of his situation, but you can't say that this moving takes 4 years?, it seems master storm has a suitable explanation to everything that heads his way. Problem is, other admins are aware of what he's doing yet they let it slip by.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I could have walked around on Classic with the 2 or 3 people that were on each day over the past couple of weeks until my virtual feet bled, but no amount of walking around on the server was going to get my review input to be swayed by something like
"This tile looks like it's been inactive for 4 years

i only saw you log on classic 3 times in the past month and there was about 18 players online every day

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by DutchGuy

So the admins were aware of his situation, but you can't say that this moving takes 4 years?, it seems master storm has a suitable explanation to everything that heads his way. Problem is, other admins are aware of what he's doing yet they let it slip by.

I knew about it. I openly supported Storm in the private review thread. We need to make that thread public, show just what I'm talking about.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

i only saw you log on classic 3 times in the past month and there was about 18 players online every day

On the same token, I could argue I only ever saw you on 3 times as well. I know you're an active player, but it doesn't change the fact that you and I could only have seen each other as often as our times allowed us to. Just because you don't see something happening (In this case, someone such as myself getting on) doesn't mean it's not happening at all.

Originally Posted by Kill

I meant your team didn't ask every staff for their views on the matter - especially the ones with the highest administrative privileges (such as Stryker and Ranger), they also didn't look at other Classic forums such as the GC forums since looking at private forums only show a positive light on development and never the reality of things (for example the awful HD which could've been shown to you in a good light when in fact it was anything but).

All of the highest admins (Including Stryker and Ranger) were given access to a private forum created by Darlene by request of Bell in which there was a thread that held discussions between the PWA and staff. This forum was actually the idea of one of the staff, as it were.

Originally Posted by Kill

I can't talk for everyone else but I personally did reply to questions that were asked, and I did compare with other candidates and gave a justified reason as to why I believed this person would've been better than another person. If they gave deflective answers; you should've done your part and said that so they could answer the question you were trying to imply to avoid them changing the direction of their answer.

I am going to single out that part there in bold. I was actually speaking with DC about this through PMs. I would post the history here if it weren't against the rules, but the basic point was that I had tried, but whether the people asked at the time didn't want to answer, or didn't have an answer, or just plain didn't want to talk to me, I never got one from them, but they're more than willing to stand up and claim they were never heard out, now, when the review is over.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

All of the highest admins (Including Stryker and Ranger) were given access to a private forum created by Darlene by request of Bell in which there was a thread that held discussions between the PWA and staff. This forum was actually the idea of one of the staff, as it were.

Wow, quit lying. I've called out the other PWAs on their lies, I will call you out on yours. I said before that thread had one post from a PWA who was involved in the review. The rest came from Bell who kept trying to get the ball rolling. There was no discussion. There was a one sided attempt from the staff to get you to give us an idea what your thoughts were.

Even Bell admitted in this very thread that our posts left questions to be answered, yet we didn't hear from any of you except her. I really wish they would make that thread public so you guys can stop trying to use it to say you did talk to us. You didn't.

Further to the point, if the PWA felt they had spoken to me adequately, why did Tig try to apologize to me for not doing just that? (I don't expect an answer to this question. Every question I've posted in this thread that puts you on the spot has gone ignored.)

[Shadow87]

Well ill say first off, Ranger, highest power? I think not.
Secondly, It became clear to me , that PWA is basically just as corrupt as anyone else who is on graal. If this wasnt true, we wouldnt still be seeing storm on a manager tag , nor would we have seen thor given one. See classic sucks so much we now need 2 managers to attempt at saving it (never gonna happen)
I feel no ones views or opinions were even considered by the PWA, i know mine werent expressed.

And come on, TS, get real, you don't play classic enough, none of the PWAs do, especially not enough to be able to judge who our manager should have been, clearly a mistake was made, and im willing to bet we'll see that in a few months time, when nothing good has come from classic still. I mean, if our big plan is two remade graals and a cool fun newspaper! then i have no hope anylonger.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

On the same token, I could argue I only ever saw you on 3 times as well. I know you're an active player, but it doesn't change the fact that you and I could only have seen each other as often as our times allowed us to. Just because you don't see something happening (In this case, someone such as myself getting on) doesn't mean it's not happening at all.

i was on most of the time , ask anyone on the server. i saw you come online twice on your own an the third time is when dc pm you about bell ****ing the review on her own.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Even Bell admitted in this very thread that our posts left questions to be answered, yet we didn't hear from any of you except her. I really wish they would make that thread public so you guys can stop trying to use it to say you did talk to us. You didn't.

I don't have a problem with the thread becoming public if that's what you so wished, of course that's not up to me to decide, though and the thread/forum was set up to be allowed the right to bypass the rules, which may not sit well with Darlene in the public. Most of that thread turned into more of a projects and ideas thing after someone had pointed out the real issue: Trust within the team.

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Further to the point, if the PWA felt they had spoken to me adequately, why did Tig try to apologize to me for not doing just that? (I don't expect an answer to this question. Every question I've posted in this thread that puts you on the spot has gone ignored.)

I guess we'd have to leave that up to Tig to answer for himself, anyway. I would instantly assume the reason he did apologise for not adequately questioning you was simple to answer: Because he knows he didn't... or he was just trying to get you off his back by agreeing with you. Either/or. But you'd have to hear that from him, since I haven't asked him this specifically, myself.

Originally Posted by Shadow87

And come on, TS, get real, you don't play classic enough, none of the PWAs do, especially not enough to be able to judge who our manager should have been, clearly a mistake was made, and im willing to bet we'll see that in a few months time, when nothing good has come from classic still. I mean, if our big plan is two remade graals and a cool fun newspaper! then i have no hope anylonger.

Again, if I could post history of discussions, I would. My suggestion to Bell right from the beginning (I am talking even before the first review when it was just Bell simply asking "What am I gonna do about Classic, TSA? ") went a little something like this:

Fire everyone, have Skyld make it completely NPC-Based, maybe 1 or 2 GP's just for the human interaction and basic moderation of the playerworld since barely anyone bothers to get banned on Classic, etc etc etc,

Obviously a joke at the time, you can imagine, but when it did come to the review, my serious suggestion was (word for word):

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

Okay, well I have to get going to bed and all that, so I thought I'd throw something out here. I was thinking out loud to Bell when she said something that triggered a thought.

"Let them choose the proverbial pig**** they're happy to roll around in"

They know better than us, and they've made that pretty clear. Throw it to a vote/opinion poll type thing. We choose the candidates, they throw it around amongst themselves, they have a bit of control about the outcome. If it goes pear shaped, they have no one but themselves to blame.

---------------

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

i was on most of the time , ask anyone on the server. i saw you come online twice on your own an the third time is when dc pm you about bell ****ing the review on her own.

And how much of an inconvenient time was it for you when I DID log on? It was usually around midday for me when getting on, while for you, you were probably just getting ready for bed within the following 10 minutes. If you would like me to pull a history of my RC/Client-RC logins, I'll send them your way. I didn't always get on Client RC when I did log in, but 90 percent of the times that I log on anywhere, the first button I press is F6.

[xnervNATx]

what do f6 do can you tell me

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

what do f6 do can you tell me

Logs into Client RC.

[StrykerTFFD]

I'd like to note that TS in no way defended the fact I said there was no discussion in that thread, did not respond to the first part of my post. I guess it's easier to ignore the truth than admit to it.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

I'd like to note that TS in no way defended the fact I said there was no discussion in that thread, did not respond to the first part of my post. I guess it's easier to ignore the truth than admit to it.

I never defended it for the same reason I didn't post in it: It wasn't a discussion, it was exactly what I responded to your section paragraph about (thus meaning that I did actually in someway respond to your first as well as second). It's "easier" to call it a discussion since that's what it was set up for, and named, than it is to say "The thread that went nowhere"

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

All of the highest admins (Including Stryker and Ranger) were given access to a private forum created by Darlene by request of Bell in which there was a thread that held discussions between the PWA and staff. This forum was actually the idea of one of the staff, as it were.

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I never defended it for the same reason I didn't post in it: It wasn't a discussion, it was exactly what I responded to your section paragraph about (thus meaning that I did actually in someway respond to your first as well as second). It's "easier" to call it a discussion since that's what it was set up for, and named, than it is to say "The thread that went nowhere"

Took you less than three posts to make yourself look like a fool.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Took you less than three posts to make yourself look like a fool.

And I can take less than half a post to point out where you've screwed up your response: You should read the final sentence in the second quote in your post before this one.

[StrykerTFFD]

You can call it the thread that went nowhere but then also admit you didn't post in it. Yes, blame the staff not the PWA that didn't actually take part in the discussion. Cute.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

You can call it the thread that went nowhere but then also admit you didn't post in it. Yes, blame the staff not the PWA that didn't actually take part in the discussion. Cute.

hmm, I don't remember saying that it was all the staff's fault. There's no doubt in my mind that the thread failed in a joint effort, but to be fair, a lot of you had opted for Forum PMing us within seconds or minutes of posting something to either "justify what it meant" or to "elaborate privately". It's hard to support the idea of this thread's aim to be a "discussion" when most of the "discussions" took place on a one-on-one basis in PMs.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

hmm, I don't remember saying that it was all the staff's fault. There's no doubt in my mind that the thread failed in a joint effort, but to be fair, a lot of you had opted for Forum PMing us within seconds or minutes of posting something to either "justify what it meant" or to "elaborate privately". It's hard to support the idea of this thread's aim to be a "discussion" when most of the "discussions" took place on a one-on-one basis in PMs.

However that's not what you said. You made it sound as if the post on the private forums was a discussion between PWA and staff. It wasn't. Your story keeps changing every time you post. Stop.

[Shadow87]

So basically your joke suggestion was 100% a better idea than what we currently have now.


Har...har...har.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

However that's not what you said. You made it sound as if the post on the private forums was a discussion between PWA and staff. It wasn't. Your story keeps changing every time you post. Stop.

Actually, you'll find it pretty much all ties in, with the only fault on my end being as you said: I named it one thing, but in my own mind named it another. Public discretion comes to mind. It's not always nice for everyone to see that a member of a Global Team is sitting here saying something negative about something that was SUPPOSED to help clear the negativity .
-Stops-
Which is a good thing, because I haven't had breakfast yet, and time hasn't stopped while I've been here.

Originally Posted by Shadow87

So basically your joke suggestion was 100[had to remove the percent sign, damn error] a better idea than what we currently have now.


Har...har...har.

Although I'm inclined to agree, I'm not so sure that'd go over very well with Stefan. Could be wrong, but the sheer thought of it got a laugh from anyone else I said it to.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

Public discretion comes to mind. It's not always nice for everyone to see that a member of a Global Team is sitting here saying something negative about something that was SUPPOSED to help clear the negativity .

People appreciate the truth more than fluff. Even more so when there are people who know the truth posting.

[Remonq]

earlier in the thread something was said by one of the PWA that the players opinion doesn't matter, but the way i see it, almost every single classic staff member, including the Admins is opposed to this solution.

i'd also like to say that i never once talked to any of the PWA's concerning the review, not even Bell.