New Manager - Page 5

weeway · #**161** 03-09-2009, 07:12 AM

Announce that classic is in need of dev we might get some pretty good people a and set up a fourm or whatever listing exactly what needs to be done and made and have a section open to suggestions to what players think should be made :O

MiniOne · #**162** 03-09-2009, 08:19 AM

Agreed, hiring more dev may be the solution though hiring and firing managers over and over again can be confusing for many players since different managers have different views upon what should occur in the game.

StrykerTFFD · #**163** 03-09-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

GP is rendered nearly useless, and kind of hurts the server as well if they try to be of too much use. Since we have a low playercount, there isn't much to police, and being that the population as of current is a bit more vulgar and profane than other server's populations, if you try to overpolice, a few of classic's community members end up being jailed or banned, and that brings the community down more than them dropping f-bombs would. It's why GP is so lax on the rules as it is. I doubt Stryker wants to harm the community.

Glad somebody else finally said it so I can stop saying it. Just to throw it out there, without a realistic population I can't do a hiring either. (Read:Stryker wants to do a hiring so get people on the server darn it.)

MiniOne · #**164** 03-09-2009, 08:41 AM

There would be no point in hiring ETs FAQs and GPs for a server with such a low playercount compared to the previous years.

xnervNATx · #**165** 03-09-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

Tickets are nearly useless, there's so many.
.

i can prove it !

MysticX2X · #**166** 03-09-2009, 02:59 PM

GC isn't initially screwed over. In fact, GC could be saved if just a few measurements were taken that should of been a while ago.

People still play events. Not a lot, but they still do. Could of it been because of how GC's spoiled players with the severe influxes of CTF? Probably. Is the server really dry on playercount that it can't get players? That too.

There's like 6 GP's so I don't see why they would need more. But then again, half of them play other servers.

DarkCloud_PK · #**167** 03-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Agreed, hiring more dev may be the solution though hiring and firing managers over and over again can be confusing for many players since different managers have different views upon what should occur in the game.

This is for all the people preaching that a management change would cost more than its worth.

Withouth the management, you're putting full faith and basically all control with your dev team. For the people that play this server, storm represents the lack of management and the reason the dev team has been so stangnant up until now.

Is it all his fault? No.
Could he have done a better job then, and be doing a better job now? Absolutely 100%, while he isn't the sole cause of classic's current epidemic, he is certainly a large factor.

So over the years, he has built a nasty reputation of being the cause of classic's failure. He simply made a lot of mistakes by not acting in alot of key situations that may have turned the tide for classic early on. Thus, he has become the image of the servers stagnant status, which bring down overall morale for everyone, staff and all, by a lot. To the point where players dont want to play, and staff certainly don't want to work, even the admins. The bare minumum job he is doing right now is not enough to redeem himself of his past reputation, and it shouldn't be coming down to that anyway. When you expect the players to hate you and the job you are doing, for such an extended period of time, I really don't think you should be in that position any longer.

I fully understand that management changes are chaotic by nature, and should be avoided when possible. However, I think this change is inevitable. Storm's repuation is so far under right now with the vast majority of his population and staff, and I honestly don't see it improving much with him doing the bare minimum(read: the job he is doing RIGHT now) to keep Bell off his back. With a management change with the state classic is in now with its manager, you revitalize the hope within the community. A new manager would bring a feeling of change of direction in where classic is going for both the players and staff members, and would give the vast majority of players and staff something they have been asking for, for a long time.

Even past the image factor storm has, which plays a major role in being a figurehead on a server, I still think someone could be doing a lot better and more hands on job with the manager position, all with the players' and staff supporting them more than they would storm. Thus, making the end result all this worth more good than the chaos it would cause by tenfold.

Give the people what they've been asking for for over 3 years.

Bell · #**168** 03-09-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weeway

Announce that classic is in need of dev we might get some pretty good people a and set up a fourm or whatever listing exactly what needs to be done and made and have a section open to suggestions to what players think should be made :O

Jan 29 Classic News announced hirings

http://classicgraal.net/applications/development/

There already are Classic forums which you currently happen to be posting on which often people do post their ideas on.

BlackSolider · #**169** 03-09-2009, 05:59 PM

DC is correct.

Mystic is not completely correct. Yes, GCs overhosted ctf. Yes, it is partially their fault. But like I said before, a declining playercount in 08 created bigger gaps in between events. Since there was no content, people were having less fun than they had previously. GCs decided to try and fill the 'fun void' by hosting the "funnest" event we had, CTF. Did it work? For a while, yes. But we can see where that got us. CTF is now the only widely requested event, and by far the one event the majority will join. Many events are now simply unhostable because not enough people join them. GCs have tried to correct the event imbalance but to no avail. Until other events are as fun and competitive as CTF (or at least how CTF used to be,) we will still have an event imbalance.

Kristi · #**170** 03-09-2009, 06:19 PM

You all speak like it is super easy to be a manager or admin and push other people to work without compensation. The difference between years ago and now is that people expect a much higher quality of content, and the pool of people willing to work for free has decreased. You think you can push someone to work? They will quit. Scripting used to be easy because no one expected quality content. Carrying a pizza around was awesome. Snakes made of cross explosions were awesome. Now this stuff is lame in people's eyes. They expect more.

You want content? Push cyberjoueur to pay developers.

People currently develop because they enjoy it. Forcing rules and projects they don't agree with makes it not fun. Therefore, they won't do it.

BlackSolider · #**171** 03-09-2009, 06:28 PM

Maybe if the servers had some sort of payment for the devs, such as rare items, tickets (if they were valuable), it would motivate them to work on stuff.

But yeah, working for free on something you don't have any heart for...can't imagine having any incentive to do it at all, much less with any quality.

MysticX2X · #**172** 03-09-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

DC is correct.

Mystic is not completely correct. Yes, GCs overhosted ctf. Yes, it is partially their fault. But like I said before, a declining playercount in 08 created bigger gaps in between events. Since there was no content, people were having less fun than they had previously. GCs decided to try and fill the 'fun void' by hosting the "funnest" event we had, CTF. Did it work? For a while, yes. But we can see where that got us. CTF is now the only widely requested event, and by far the one event the majority will join. Many events are now simply unhostable because not enough people join them. GCs have tried to correct the event imbalance but to no avail. Until other events are as fun and competitive as CTF (or at least how CTF used to be,) we will still have an event imbalance.

How so? CTF has spoiled this server big time. There are several other fun events that I could think of, and creativity is one essence to a GC. It is the fault of the GC team for overkilling CTF where it can be the only hostable event right now. In fact, I take that back. There are events in which some people still will enjoy.

I can agree that with tickets being completely useless, that creates no incentive for events. Right now with this GC items rule of "cant damage", you honestly won't see a drive for tickets. I gave my suggestions to Night about making tickets useful again, but that would have to warrant a ticket reset.

DesolateRestriction · #**173** 03-09-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristi

You all speak like it is super easy to be a manager or admin and push other people to work without compensation. The difference between years ago and now is that people expect a much higher quality of content, and the pool of people willing to work for free has decreased. You think you can push someone to work? They will quit. Scripting used to be easy because no one expected quality content. Carrying a pizza around was awesome. Snakes made of cross explosions were awesome. Now this stuff is lame in people's eyes. They expect more.

You want content? Push cyberjoueur to pay developers.

People currently develop because they enjoy it. Forcing rules and projects they don't agree with makes it not fun. Therefore, they won't do it.

Exactly. I Couldn't agree with you more.

BlackSolider · #**174** 03-09-2009, 06:42 PM

Ticket reset wouldn't be a horrible thing. It'd be a "fresh start" of sorts. Laura currently has 666 tickets. Seriously...thats just...wrong.

Yes, other events can be "fun". But, arguably, no event is as "fun" as a competitive 6-5 game of ctf. Yes, some people enjoy other events. Ryu likes pot race (b/c hes good at it). A few others like sumo. Some people like pictionary. But the single event that most people love the most (or at least top 3) would be CTF.

grim_squeaker_x · #**175** 03-09-2009, 06:54 PM

What if the Classic people want Classic be as it was and the content quality wouldn't be a problem? Atleast it wouldn't be for me. You can always have some cheapass scripting as fill-ins until you have time to make something better.

But that's just my opinion. I like classic for what it was! That probably has something to do with how players there used to be. But I really miss a lot of how the playerworld used to look and what was were. I miss that old place where you could get a trident and then go further and end up in "gerudo valley". I vote for a change of manager because the current manager doesn't do a good job. I hope this will either push storm to be much better or make a new manager feel pressured to do a better job not to let down everyone that wanted a change.

xnervNATx · #**176** 03-09-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Ticket reset wouldn't be a horrible thing. It'd be a "fresh start" of sorts. Laura currently has 666 tickets. Seriously...thats just...wrong.

Yes, other events can be "fun". But, arguably, no event is as "fun" as a competitive 6-5 game of ctf. Yes, some people enjoy other events. Ryu likes pot race (b/c hes good at it). A few others like sumo. Some people like pictionary. But the single event that most people love the most (or at least top 3) would be CTF.

are you jealous i have 666 tickets? its not my fault if you always lose the events ok? i won them fair and square. if they could release npc maybe id have less.

Bell · #**177** 03-09-2009, 07:04 PM

As of this morning, I have asked both TSAdmin and Tigairius to do a formal management review. Please try to not bombard them all at once and understand that it may take them some time to speak to everyone they feel the need to speak to. If you have input on the subject though, don't hesitate to discuss it with them. Both can also be reached via forum pm for those who aren't in their timezone. As I said before, this decision will not be mine alone and I feel its time to bring in the rest of the team.

xnervNATx · #**178** 03-09-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

As of this morning, I have asked both TSAdmin and Tigairius to do a formal management review. Please try to not bombard them all at once and understand that it may take them some time to speak to everyone they feel the need to speak to. If you have input on the subject though, don't hesitate to discuss it with them. Both can also be reached via forum pm for those who aren't in their timezone. As I said before, this decision will not be mine alone and I feel its time to bring in the rest of the team.

nice bell , about time someone made a move.

MysticX2X · #**179** 03-09-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

are you jealous i have 666 tickets? its not my fault if you always lose the events ok? i won them fair and square. if they could release npc maybe id have less.

Many people have tons of tickets ranging from 200-400 and currently no use. There is no way possible to introduce a new ticket economy with tickets this inflated. They should of been capped ago when their was the rumor of tickets being capped to 50 or 100 and gralats being capped to 10k. Now it will be hard without an influx of complaints from the people with the high ticket counts.

xnervNATx · #**180** 03-09-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Many people have tons of tickets ranging from 200-400 and currently no use. There is no way possible to introduce a new ticket economy with tickets this inflated. They should of been capped ago when their was the rumor of tickets being capped to 50 or 100 and gralats being capped to 10k. Now it will be hard without an influx of complaints from the people with the high ticket counts.

i heard many time from players in events "i dont play for the tickets but for the fun" . WHAT economy we need is GRALAT economy , from my opinion i am NOT saying yes to the tickets reset

Mark Sir Link · #**181** 03-09-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Maybe if the servers had some sort of payment for the devs, such as rare items, tickets (if they were valuable), it would motivate them to work on stuff.

no

Bell · #**182** 03-09-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Maybe if the servers had some sort of payment for the devs, such as rare items, tickets (if they were valuable), it would motivate them to work on stuff.

But yeah, working for free on something you don't have any heart for...can't imagine having any incentive to do it at all, much less with any quality.

Era or Zodiac, I forget which now, pays event coins for all staff through their time on rc. From what I've seen it just encourages idling.

xnervNATx · #**183** 03-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Maybe if the servers had some sort of payment for the devs, such as rare items, tickets (if they were valuable), it would motivate them to work on stuff.

r u serious????

rare items, who would make them?? themself?

SwimChao · #**184** 03-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Era or Zodiac, I forget which now, pays event coins for all staff through their time on rc. From what I've seen it just encourages idling.

One of our past Managers, who I really liked tried to encourage staff to do a positive job by rewarding them with a currency they could use in a "Staff shop". It was the one thing he did that I thought was a terrible idea.

By positive job, it meant if you didn't get fired for a month you got another coin.. or something along those lines.

Bell · #**185** 03-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwimChao

One of our past Managers, who I really liked tried to encourage staff to do a positive job by rewarding them with a currency they could use in a "Staff shop". It was the one thing he did that I thought was a terrible idea.

By positive job, it meant if you didn't get fired for a month you got another coin.. or something along those lines.

The really good developers really don't seem to be impressed by that though. They want cash. One of the dev servers I think even tried that and it didn't seem to last. Probably because in that case it just encouraged script theft to hand over to the server to get money for.

SwimChao · #**186** 03-09-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

The really good developers really don't seem to be impressed by that though. They want cash. One of the dev servers I think even tried that and it didn't seem to last. Probably because in that case it just encouraged script theft to hand over to the server to get money for.

Most true.

LordSquirt · #**187** 03-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Era or Zodiac, I forget which now, pays event coins for all staff through their time on rc. From what I've seen it just encourages idling.

Era gives out one EC coin for every seven hours on tag. It's not an outrageous incentive, however, I guess it's better than nothing. I think this is only for PR Staff also, not Dev.

DarkCloud_PK · #**188** 03-09-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

As of this morning, I have asked both TSAdmin and Tigairius to do a formal management review. Please try to not bombard them all at once and understand that it may take them some time to speak to everyone they feel the need to speak to. If you have input on the subject though, don't hesitate to discuss it with them. Both can also be reached via forum pm for those who aren't in their timezone. As I said before, this decision will not be mine alone and I feel its time to bring in the rest of the team.

Okay, Classic.

This is the time many of us have been waiting for.
I highly urge you guys to PM
Tig
and
TSAdmin

PM them with any opinion you have. The future of Classic is based on this decision made by them. So player opinions from Classic are completely paramount at this point. I urge everyone to share your opinion, whatever it maybe be, or however insignificant you may think it is. Every player on this server counts, and it counts in this decision.

Kristi · #**189** 03-09-2009, 08:55 PM

All of you people running for new manager, put your money where your mouth is.

How would you get people to work?

How would you get people to work on things they don't really want to?

DarkCloud_PK · #**190** 03-09-2009, 08:58 PM

Aren't you forgetting the second rule of reasons why people develop?
Either for themselves on stuff they want to do, or to see their things get used and praised.

Hell, the stuff I work on now is more for the latter reason than the former.

Kristi · #**191** 03-09-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

Aren't you forgetting the second rule of reasons why people develop?
Either for themselves on stuff they want to do, or to see their things get used and praised.

Are you saying if the staff made something, storm would prevent it from going up? Because if not (and I know storm isn't preventing content from going up), having this quality doesn't make anyone more qualified then storm.

I think it is understood that if people worked, their work would be used. That is not going to change under new management. Next?

DarkCloud_PK · #**192** 03-09-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristi

Are you saying if the staff made something, storm would prevent it from going up? Because if not (and I know storm isn't preventing content from going up), having this quality doesn't make anyone more qualified then storm.

I think it is understood that if people worked, their work would be used. That is not going to change under new management. Next?

It will change with playercount, and a more active and involved figurehead.
Inactivity breeds inactivity.
Low player counts breed lower player counts.

Kristi · #**193** 03-09-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

It will change with playercount, and a more active and involved figurehead.
Inactivity breeds inactivity.
Low player counts breed lower player counts.

You can't say the reason storm is a bad manager is because under a new manager more things will be developed without telling how.

If developers developed things they liked AND hated for the sheer joy that people would use it, then the issue would have been dissolved long ago. The real problem is that we can't get staff to work on the server to begin with. I know all the good developers will laugh in the face of a promise that their work will be seen. If this is your big solution (the promise), then fat chance...

I'm serious, can someone please tell me why they would be a better candidate, because just saying "I'll be more active" won't cut it. You need to explain what you will do when you are active.

xnervNATx · #**194** 03-09-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

It will change with playercount, and a more active and involved figurehead.
Inactivity breeds inactivity.
Low player counts breed lower player counts.

the low playercount will stay the same as long NOTHING move.

BlackSolider · #**195** 03-09-2009, 10:03 PM

The idea I stated about giving devs tickets or something was based more on rewarded for releasing content, rather than # of hours. Anyone can idle on tag. We need people who actually get stuff done. Thus we should reward them with something more than a "good job" and a "get to work on the next project".

Remonq · #**196** 03-09-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniOne

There would be no point in hiring ETs FAQs and GPs for a server with such a low playercount compared to the previous years.

i've said this before and i'll say it again, a low playercount does not justify a low GP/GC/FAQ count. everyday i see people needing FAQ help, everyday there are people asking when the next event will be hosted, everyday i see people being harassed or abused, or using trainers. naturally some of these are more often than others and i'm just an FAQ, i can only do so much, but i will be a little unconventional if i do need to be in order to make people happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

The idea I stated about giving devs tickets or something was based more on rewarded for releasing content, rather than # of hours. Anyone can idle on tag. We need people who actually get stuff done. Thus we should reward them with something more than a "good job" and a "get to work on the next project".

there really isn't a good answer to this, and if there is one then we haven't found it. it doesn't help that classic scripting isn't like most other servers. perhaps someone who knows how to script and has the freetime should make some kind of scripting guide or something along those lines. i've told FAQ to keep an eye out for developers that are roaming about, i saw one the other day but have yet to talk to thor about it.

-Ramirez- · #**197** 03-09-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remonq

perhaps someone who knows how to script and has the freetime should make some kind of scripting guide or something along those lines

That's easy. Here it is:
1. Be prepared to deal with the most horribly-designed group of scripts imaginable.
2. Feel free to try whatever you want, but you WILL need to follow endless chain calling back and forth of all the systems to figure out what's really happening.
3. Wonder why you're even bothering when there's no benefit to you other than potential "praise" that won't come anyway.
4. In the event that you try to do something anyway, and it fails in any way whatsoever, be ready to take endless insults and childish anger from everyone who expects perfection at all times.

I wonder why constant and consistent work isn't done.

(Regarding #4 in particular: ) I really wish some of you could see how DC reacted to the update I made to HP a few days ago. It was truly pathetic. (As some of you know, it wasn't functioning properly for several hours due to an oversight and lack of accurate information.) It makes me want to spend all of my free time on the server that might blindly give him even more control over others! That was somewhat of a tangent, but such lack of patience and understanding needs to be known under the current circumstances.

Remonq · #**198** 03-09-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

blahblahblah

how about something a little less sarcastic and that isn't intended to be a direct insult against a particular player. is that too much to ask for?

-Ramirez- · #**199** 03-09-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remonq

how about something a little less sarcastic and that isn't intended to be a direct insult against a particular player. is that too much to ask for?

All 4 points were completely valid and realistic. The last simply reminded me of extra information that people need to be aware of. If its purpose was to insult DC, I wouldn't have added it to the post. I would hope people that're going to give opinions to the PWA staff are going to be informed as much as possible and not just go based on personal opinions. Also, #4 was not limited to DC.

BlackSolider · #**200** 03-10-2009, 01:54 AM

@ ranger's top post on the page.

Yes, a low playercount is an excuse for a low GP/GC/FAQ count. I personally try to only host quality events, and a 4 player event isn't a 'quality event' in my books. Other GCs might think differently; other GCs might agree with me. Regardless, I'm not going to try to force events just to try and raise the playercount. I personally don't find them fun to play nor watch, and so I don't host them.

Similarly, GPs aren't needed in mass number right now on classic. I don't ever hear about people hacking or anything nowadays. Honestly I don't agree with jailing people for swearing (excessive swearing or racism is another story,) but even then I don't see it as much as I used to. Thus you don't need a GP online 24/7 b/c, as far as I know, they wouldn't be doing much all day but glaring at people who swear.

Similarly again, FAQ aren't needed in great numbers on classic. We have very few quests that noobs need help with, and anyone that has a question can just ask any friendly player. I'm not saying FAQ aren't needed; they just don't need to be on 24/7 'just in case' some noob has a question or needs help. Obviously noobs are needed because they (hopefully) eventually grow into solid new players, but let's be honest here: FAQ is the least important of the staff positions. Now I can already picture you going off on that statement, saying how uninformed I am about your job and the role you play in the server. That's all fine and dandy. But let's be realistic. FAQs are needed when new content is released and people (noobs and current players alike) need help; FAQs aren't needed as much when the playercount is at 15.