Propositon to Stop Base Laming

[XdNemesisXd]

If you will go after any base and don't lame post here

[Crono]

What?

[Elizabeth]

............what?

[XdNemesisXd]

You will go after bases instead of lamming to get people not to lame

[Crono]

Yes, I do this anyway.

[XdNemesisXd]

LOL wooh!

[jkool666]

This is what Pheet is trying to say...

New players learn from our actions, they learn how to play the game based on what we do. So if they see us doing nothing but standing at enemy HQs laming players, they'll do that because they assume thats how you play the game.

While your playing Iricia, do some of the following
-Send team messages (blue text message) giving orders on bases to capture
-Capture bases of your own continueously

If a bunch of people do this, it will eventually let us play Iricia the way it was intended. There will always be a few base lamers, but entire teams standing as bases for 20 minutes streight is just silly...

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by jkool666

This is what Pheet is trying to say...

New players learn from our actions, they learn how to play the game based on what we do. So if they see us doing nothing but standing at enemy HQs laming players, they'll do that because they assume thats how you play the game.

While your playing Iricia, do some of the following
-Send team messages (blue text message) giving orders on bases to capture
-Capture bases of your own continueously

If a bunch of people do this, it will eventually let us play Iricia the way it was intended. There will always be a few base lamers, but entire teams standing as bases for 20 minutes streight is just silly...

...But we know perfectly well that wouldn't work.

The only way you could get people to change their way of playing, which they have adapted to for so long, would be to FORCE change on them by making it impossible to lame the enemy base.

[jkool666]

Originally Posted by Minomato

...But we know perfectly well that wouldn't work.

With attitudes like that, no. Your choice, I guess you like base laming, not gaining experience or playing a map to its full potential.
^This answer goes for all Negative Nancys ;P

[doyouskate]

capturing bases is sooo fun...

[jkool666]

When theres people there to defend them, it is. Which is the overal outcome we're trying to achieve.

[Nefir]

The B1 action was great, let's just force our team mates to go there, enemies won't have much choice than to come to us for kills. Unless we change the wanted base, or stick with get all the bases.

[Nataxo]

General Nat is organising her team >:]

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by jkool666

With attitudes like that, no. Your choice, I guess you like base laming, not gaining experience or playing a map to its full potential.
^This answer goes for all Negative Nancys ;P

The point I'm making is that "talk" doesn't fix things. Action fixes things. Can't you communicate with other staff members to see what you can do about this? As far as I know, the most direct path to the solution is the most promising. I believe Dante would be able to help in some way, as he's already tried to accomplish such a thing.

In the many threads that have come and gone, the same problem keeps coming up- there's not enough players. Not enough players being on the server constantly means that there'll be times where people are forced to spawn camp, due to players not coming back to fight as swiftly as the opposing team prefers, or they won't play at all. I think we're pretty lucky that some people are still playing and we haven't taken away their only means of entertainment by now, even if it annoys others. It helps in the long run, basically. Restating my point, the only way you're going to not have people linger around their spawn points is if there are more people playing on the server- mainly Iricia.

If you don't like spawn camping, or being camped for that matter, you can just go to another planet, right? Whoa, wait a second... I just went on platform, and Darkness is getting spawn camped! How about that. And how about Zone Wars? Same deal, I'm seeing there; obviously, that planet was made for spawn camping, as the power generators are placed RIGHT in the teams' respective spawn locations. KoTH? Yeah: Why defend a four sided hill when you can keep the enemy pinned down in their own base while you gain points over time? I could go on for awhile, trust me, but I recognize that Alpha (Alpha/Spar, but I'm not talking about the Spar area) doesn't have this problem. What's this mean? Well, we can take what we did on that planet, learn from it, and put it to use on other planets!

Now, don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying all planets need to be like Alpha's design; I'm just saying that we can solve this problem with common sense and recycling the resources we already have. A shiney new system isn't necessary at all. Might be nice, but it's not needed. We've got what we need already; all it needs is some modifications and willing people to put the plan into motion.

[jkool666]

Originally Posted by Minomato

The point I'm making is that "talk" doesn't fix things. Action fixes things.

How is everyone taking bases talking?

I did it myself the other day, focused on taking bases and encouraging players to do the same with team chat. People were protecting bases, going for new ones, ect. No one really spawn lamed :S.

Originally Posted by Minomato

Not enough players being on the server constantly means that there'll be times where people are forced to spawn camp, due to players not coming back to fight as swiftly as the opposing team prefers, or they won't play at all.

Yes but we have more players now... Zones playercount has been going up lately.

Originally Posted by Minomato

Well, we can take what we did on that planet, learn from it, and put it to use on other planets!

True, but what does this have to do with fixing Iricia?

Originally Posted by Minomato

We've got what we need already; all it needs is some modifications and willing people to put the plan into motion.

Correct, we don't need anything, other then willing people who would discourage others from base laming is all we need ;P.

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by jkool666

How is everyone taking bases talking?

I did it myself the other day, focused on taking bases and encouraging players to do the same with team chat. People were protecting bases, going for new ones, ect. No one really spawn lamed :S.


Yes but we have more players now... Zones playercount has been going up lately.


True, but what does this have to do with fixing Iricia?


Correct, we don't need anything, other then willing people who would discourage others from base laming is all we need ;P.

You can go around using a jet pack all day to get all the bases, and people on the other team will just take them back in the same way you just did. After that, they resume the camping routine. There are minimal rewards and fights from that, which is why it's not a good alternative to those who want to fight.

May I remind you that the playercount is not at a constant value, so people playing at different times (like if they live in different time zones and such) don't play with as many players. There might be sudden spikes, but they quickly diminish.

Iricia is a planet. Connect the dots. I know you and the other members of the staff have the creativity to deal with any problem such as this.

Discourage... by what means? You can actually fight them on the planet if you want, trying to keep them out of the base, even though it makes them want to lame even more. Dante's even tried to "cheat" to get players to stay away from the Storm Rider base when Sweep Fleet Lames them, and vice versa... Although, it's been pretty easy to avoid him.

Adding on to discouragement of spawn laming, the discouragement that people have been getting from taking the numbered bases is greater, from what I've seen. Players have been "hunted" by their own teammates that switch teams in the next round, whom make an attempt to teach the "wrong" aspects of Iricia to the usually new and poorly equiped players. These situations lead to both parties not having any fun, and it doesn't help with players getting more kills, due to the fact that they're trying to chase or run from the other one for long periods of time. I must say, though, I realized that many of the players on this server can display a great amount of effort; just in the wrong areas of playing.

[doyouskate]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Not enough players being on the server constantly means that there'll be times where people are forced to spawn camp, due to players not coming back to fight as swiftly as the opposing team prefers, or they won't play at all.

Have to agree here, today the player count was about, on average, about 25. There is no one at bases and I'm forced to spawn camp. Although, that is what i prefer to do anyway.

Originally Posted by Jesse

Correct, we don't need anything, other then willing people who would discourage others from base laming is all we need ;P.

There will always be people that won't focus on taking bases and personally i don't really see how you can change it. There has always been base laming but today's laming is just more extreme.

[pooper200000]

This may seem out of place, but I believe that fixing Iricia is killing Iricia.
The reason Iricia is liked so well, is because of its design and base laming. The design only makes it easier to base lame. To fix Iricia would be, in essence, to kill Iricia and destroy what makes Iricia so fun to so many people (Base laming)

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by doyouskate

There will always be people that won't focus on taking bases and personally i don't really see how you can change it. There has always been base laming but today's laming is just more extreme.

Precisely. We can't change people's minds once they have them set...

...But I still believe that we can:

[Schetti]

I am going to take base 3 and 4.
While I make box forts
I allrdy took 65 Objekts(bases) on sunday

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Minomato

You can go around using a jet pack all day to get all the bases, and people on the other team will just take them back in the same way you just did. After that, they resume the camping routine. There are minimal rewards and fights from that, which is why it's not a good alternative to those who want to fight.

Oh really? Then why was Arctic such an active and successful map in 2004-2005? In between bases 3 and 4 you usually had a few good sparrers in the middle, ready to fight anyone that came around. Base 5 was an easy one to get, but most of the time there were mines hiding about, and base 2 pretty much ended in atleast one conflict (as it's so close to the enemy's HQ).

Base 1 was a war zone, and I don't think I need to describe how it was. People used the base to it's full potential; they set up mines, some hid in the bunker (including medics waiting for the wave of enemies to go away), and other surrounded both the base and the base's roof.

They did all this because they WANTED those bases, and keeping base 1 almost always ensured victory.

[Raeiphon]

Originally Posted by Crono

Oh really? Then why was Arctic such an active and successful map in 2004-2005? In between bases 3 and 4 you usually had a few good sparrers in the middle, ready to fight anyone that came around. Base 5 was an easy one to get, but most of the time there were mines hiding about, and base 2 pretty much ended in atleast one conflict (as it's so close to the enemy's HQ).

Base 1 was a war zone, and I don't think I need to describe how it was. People used the base to it's full potential; they set up mines, some hid in the bunker (including medics waiting for the wave of enemies to go away), and other surrounded both the base and the base's roof.

They did all this because they WANTED those bases, and keeping base 1 almost always ensured victory.

Precisely.

These new goddamn headstrong kids charge people with gratuitously overpowered weapons (even moreso than the past, oddly enough) and except reasonable people to conform to their ideals of 'strategy'.

Strategy is not rushing at someone and attempting to display your 'mad skillz' by lobbing pipebombs or using a colourifle. Strategy is using the immediate environment, and your definition of 'base laming' is essentially highly effective area denial. Defense, contrary to popular belief - is not actually 'laming' either.

People still get angry at me for running into a bunker and stabbing the poor helpless sod who charged in attempting to get me as an easy kill. Then I get swathed in a furious torrent of rage by them that just makes me laugh.

Do you want to be that guy? You know, the guy who sat down and cried in the middle of a game of bullrush because he got tipped when several people cornered him? Reassess yourselves and don't allow the perception of 'honor' jeopardise your gaming experience.

[Jesper]

Yes ,we can !

[Dante55555]

Originally Posted by Minomato

The point I'm making is that "talk" doesn't fix things. Action fixes things.

Jesse was offering a plan of "action".

Originally Posted by Minomato

Although, it's been pretty easy to avoid him.

warpto 30 30
/get minomato

You go boom.

Originally Posted by Raeiphon

Reassess yourselves and don't allow the perception of 'honor' jeopardise your gaming experience.

I haven't seen a single drop of honor in Zone's community since v5.

Originally Posted by jkool666

stuff

How about we can global saying "TAKE BASE 1!" or maybe "Whoever takes base 1 gets a prize". We could offer small money prizes or so. It could encourage many people to go after the base.

[RevolutionJS]

Ye make b1 importanter I say that for years....

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by Crono

Oh really? Then why was Arctic such an active and successful map in 2004-2005? In between bases 3 and 4 you usually had a few good sparrers in the middle, ready to fight anyone that came around. Base 5 was an easy one to get, but most of the time there were mines hiding about, and base 2 pretty much ended in atleast one conflict (as it's so close to the enemy's HQ).

Base 1 was a war zone, and I don't think I need to describe how it was. People used the base to it's full potential; they set up mines, some hid in the bunker (including medics waiting for the wave of enemies to go away), and other surrounded both the base and the base's roof.

They did all this because they WANTED those bases, and keeping base 1 almost always ensured victory.

Sorry to say, but that was years ago. Gelats didn't exist then, so the amount of people having jetpacks wasn't such an incredibly high amount. People don't want bases anymore because "winning" on Iricia doesn't give a really great reward, compared to spawn camping.

Originally Posted by Dante55555

How about we can global saying "TAKE BASE 1!" or maybe "Whoever takes base 1 gets a prize". We could offer small money prizes or so. It could encourage many people to go after the base.

That's great, but once the "events" are done, they go right back to spawn camping. Unless you want this to be a constant thing, I don't see how it will work. Even if it became constant, it'll end up being abused sooner or later.

Originally Posted by Dante55555

warpto 30 30
/get minomato

You go boom.

The objective is to get people to take bases rather than spawn camp, not trying to discourage them from playing the game itself.

Originally Posted by Dante55555

I haven't seen a single drop of honor in Zone's community since v5.

Tough. It's the Online Gaming generation that Zone got from trying to be more public, which caused it to attract the wrong crowd.

[Huwajux]

Wasn't this guy an FAQ or something? Or is my imagination playing tricks on me again?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Sorry to say, but that was years ago. Gelats didn't exist then, so the amount of people having jetpacks wasn't such an incredibly high amount. People don't want bases anymore because "winning" on Iricia doesn't give a really great reward, compared to spawn camping.

Heres my point:

.

Heres your head:

o

Here's my point going way over your head:

.
















o

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by Crono

Heres my point:

.

Heres your head:

o

Here's my point going way over your head:

.
















o

xD

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by Crono

Heres my point:

.

Heres your head:

o

Creative, but you have yet to make an attempt to correct me. By all means, feel free to explain your point specifically. If I am not getting it, then a key part of the issue is going to be warped and twisted in ways it was never meant to be.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Creative, but you have yet to make an attempt to correct me. By all means, feel free to explain your point specifically. If I am not getting it, then a key part of the issue is going to be warped and twisted in ways it was never meant to be.

Jetpacks existed back then too, it's not the problem.

The problem is the drive to claim bases, some motivation for players to actually capture all the bases and hold them to win. Some form of incentive is needed.

Whatever is there right now is obviously not working.

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by Crono

Jetpacks existed back then too, it's not the problem.

The problem is the drive to claim bases, some motivation for players to actually capture all the bases and hold them to win. Some form of incentive is needed.

Whatever is there right now is obviously not working.

Right, so like I said, "winning" on Iricia doesn't give much of a reward.

[XdNemesisXd]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Right, so like I said, "winning" on Iricia doesn't give much of a reward.

There really is no reward. People just want kills. I think if everyone captured bases it would be better. More fun when Jesse and I tried it everyone had to fight us.

[Raeiphon]

Easy fix to all this.

Offer experience to all people present at the base (of a particular team of course) when it's captured, and a small amount awarded every minute thereafter that the base is held.

There's your incentive to capture bases.

[Minomato]

Originally Posted by Raeiphon

Easy fix to all this.

Offer experience to all people present at the base (of a particular team of course) when it's captured, and a small amount awarded every minute thereafter that the base is held.

There's your incentive to capture bases.

Doesn't sound promising. With that system, one team would capture all but one base, and THEN go spawn camping, so they can get free EXP while holding the enemy back.

[DeathOfRa]

Uh, easy solution...
Create a timer, if someone is inside a base for more than 10 minutes, it automatically warps them to the door of the complex if they are constantly getting kills in the bunker.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Right, so like I said, "winning" on Iricia doesn't give much of a reward.

That wasn't what I was arguing against. Re-read what I quoted from you.

Also, sup guys:

[Dante55555]

Originally Posted by Minomato

Gelats didn't exist then, so the amount of people having jetpacks wasn't such an incredibly high amount.

Lol?

Everyone had jetpacks back then, new players could just buy them for 7500 money. You didn't need to USD to get them. Everyone who was P2P had one and even some trials (DDC, that maniac) had them after playing for hours straight.

Is today opposite day? Your statement is totally backwards.

That's great, but once the "events" are done, they go right back to spawn camping. Unless you want this to be a constant thing, I don't see how it will work. Even if it became constant, it'll end up being abused sooner or later.

It'll work by encouraging teamwork, if only for a short time. Hopefully it will catch on, people will see how much fun it is (we'll do it on a weekend when there's a bunch of people, as well as more ETs online to help). We have to try something, Mino.

Originally Posted by Crono

Jetpacks existed back then too, it's not the problem.

Agreed.

The problem is the drive to claim bases, some motivation for players to actually capture all the bases and hold them to win. Some form of incentive is needed.

Agreed.

[bahamutstevetff]

home base should have some sort of defence system.

[Dante55555]

Like what?