Support Policy Change: Playerworld backups and old project data

HoudiniMan · #1 12-29-2007, 11:10 AM

Playerworld data will no longer be released to the public from GraalOnline's backup systems.

There are several reasons for this change:

1) Stefan must personally see to each request for a data retrieval. This is not a quick task, and requires sifting through backups, finding a server to upload it for the player, etc.

2) Permissions for data usage are reserved by GraalOnline, however we have two long-standing policies: Firstly, data usage rights are granted on a first-come first-serve basis. This means that, generally, whatever server a file is uploaded or created on may use that file - and any other servers wishing to use that file must ask the server of origin.

The second policy is that players who want to revive a past project need the permission of the last owner, plus the permission of the Playerworld Administration to revive it. Before giving out playerworld backups, we try our best to establish permission being granted from the last manager of the project. However, this is increasingly done simply by trusting the word of the requester, because there is no good way to ask permission from people who have left the game - either by the PWA or the by player wanting to revive a project.

3) This greatly reduces the originality and stability of new worlds. Ideas are recycled over and over, and old scripts are not re-created for the new scripting engine which can make the server performance suffer.

4) Player satisfaction with the support center's effectiveness has been suffering from these requests. Due to the amount of time required to fulfill a request for a backup to be restored, tickets for this kind of work frequently run over 2 weeks without being resolved. It clouds up the list of support tickets that can be addressed in the present, and frustrates players who are excited but can't get the data they need for the revival.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, it will help us provide better support and help Graal evolve into new and original forms

-GraalOnline Management

cbk1994 · #2 12-29-2007, 05:23 PM

This is a good idea, several servers have requested the Sands of Glory files and said they had permission when they didn't AND we were still developing it.

Codein · #3 12-29-2007, 05:29 PM

Hopefully this'll put an end to Jigga's constant revival attempts. Hopefully it's strictly enforced because Jigga has access to old playerworld content which has not officially been released to him.

Pimmeh · #4 12-29-2007, 05:37 PM

I really like this. DoomsDay has been subject of an survival attempt without Tifa's knowing and I find it horrid.
So this is good

projectigi · #5 12-29-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

I really like this. DoomsDay has been subject of an survival attempt without Tifa's knowing and I find it horrid.
So this is good

I kinda disagree, I think managers have too many rights over the stuff that was made by the staffs (especially big things that took a lot of time/effort)

Pimmeh · #6 12-29-2007, 07:35 PM

We were talking about owners, not managers

Codein · #7 12-29-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectigi

I kinda disagree, I think managers have too many rights over the stuff that was made by the staffs (especially big things that took a lot of time/effort)

Aye, I reckon developers should be able to claim back work.

cbk1994 · #8 12-29-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codein

Aye, I reckon developers should be able to claim back work.

I disagree. They should expect that if the server goes down, it will be lost.

However, if they have a backup, I think that's fine.

Bell · #9 12-29-2007, 08:07 PM

Rules haven't changed regarding content in the sense that if you develop something for a server, it belongs to the server. cbk is right though, if that person has kept a backup of scripts he's made himself and the server it was used on no longer exists, he is free to use them elsewhere.

This rules changed is in regards to Graalonline providing backups only. All other rules still apply. Its still illegal to steal content guys.

DustyPorViva · #10 12-29-2007, 08:10 PM

When you work for a server you work for the server, not for yourself. Ya it sucks to lose hard work but that's just the way it is. You should back up your stuff and ask the old owners of the server if you can use the stuff YOU made. This of course doesn't apply to UC servers as they come and go so fast and none of your work would probably ever see the light of day.

trevor987 · #11 12-30-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

Playerworld data will no longer be released to the public from GraalOnline's backup systems.

Is that an implication that playerworld owners will not receive backups either, such as if a server crashes/is deleted/whatever? I've seen a few servers go down (especially Atrius) because of players like KuJi deleting everything, and I just wanted to clarify for everyone whether we should start working under the assumption that we don't get backups :X

Twinny · #12 12-30-2007, 04:51 PM

I didn't think UC worlds got backed up all that much...

Codein · #13 12-30-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

I disagree. They should expect that if the server goes down, it will be lost.

However, if they have a backup, I think that's fine.

That's exactly what I meant. Say if I made a tileset for a playerworld and it fails and flops, I should be allowed to use those tiles elsewhere. I mean, is it really fair for owners to give away my work to someone like Jigga? An owner who didn't really contribute much, either way.

Horrified · #14 12-30-2007, 07:09 PM

Personally, I back up my server for myself every other day.

If you are the owner of your playerworld, you should take the initiative to backup your work in case of crazy players like this KuJi throwing away all your work.

Pimmeh · #15 12-30-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codein

That's exactly what I meant. Say if I made a tileset for a playerworld and it fails and flops, I should be allowed to use those tiles elsewhere. I mean, is it really fair for owners to give away my work to someone like Jigga? An owner who didn't really contribute much, either way.

An owner who doesnt contribute shouldnt be owning the project.

Codein · #16 12-30-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

An owner who doesnt contribute shouldnt be owning the project.

I've seen it happen, quite a lot.

cbk1994 · #17 12-30-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

An owner who doesnt contribute shouldnt be owning the project.

More like sponsors than owners.

Pimmeh · #18 12-30-2007, 08:26 PM

Dude, thats lame....Owners should be like...the MAIN game designers! THEY want the project to succeed, after all?

Bell · #19 12-30-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevor987

Is that an implication that playerworld owners will not receive backups either, such as if a server crashes/is deleted/whatever? I've seen a few servers go down (especially Atrius) because of players like KuJi deleting everything, and I just wanted to clarify for everyone whether we should start working under the assumption that we don't get backups :X

Servers will still receive backups due to hardware failures or server crashes. They just need to put in a support ticket like normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codein

That's exactly what I meant. Say if I made a tileset for a playerworld and it fails and flops, I should be allowed to use those tiles elsewhere. I mean, is it really fair for owners to give away my work to someone like Jigga? An owner who didn't really contribute much, either way.

If the server is no longer being used and won't be returning. You could use your tileset elsewhere if you designed it. You would just have to have saved a backup of the tileset yourself.

Codein · #20 12-30-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

If the server is no longer being used and won't be returning. You could use your tileset elsewhere if you designed it. You would just have to have saved a backup of the tileset yourself.

And what happens if the owner has a backup of this tileset too and decides to use the tileset on one of his other projects? A project in which I don't work.

Bell · #21 12-30-2007, 09:17 PM

In an ideal world you would both ask each other if the other person cared if each used it but this is graal so chances are that won't happen. My best guess at this point will be that whoever of you uses it first will get the useage rights to it.

Spark910 · #22 12-30-2007, 10:14 PM

Never really understood passive owners / sponsors.

If there was a way to get your money back, ok... but surely everyone doing it is either (a) just kind - which is fine (b) wanting to come back and abuse the position once finished, public and popular.

Concerned that some may be there for B.

Laek2007 · #23 12-30-2007, 10:46 PM

I don't see why this is suppose to be a "good" thing. This only states that Stefan simply dosn't have the time to deal with us normal players.

Trust me been there done that...

This means, NO server what so ever will be able to make a comeback. And if a server is hacked, or somehow staff violated, you'll not be able to recover data. So someone tell me how this is suppose to be a good thing...

I'm sorry I just don't see it.

Pimmeh · #24 12-30-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laek2007

I don't see why this is suppose to be a "good" thing. This only states that Stefan simply dosn't have the time to deal with us normal players.

Trust me been there done that...

This means, NO server what so ever will be able to make a comeback. And if a server is hacked, or somehow staff violated, you'll not be able to recover data. So someone tell me how this is suppose to be a good thing...

I'm sorry I just don't see it.

Wrong, it just means that Jigga wont be allowed to make an revival.
The OWNER should approve of the revival!

Laek2007 · #25 12-30-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

Wrong, it just means that Jigga wont be allowed to make an revival.
The OWNER should approve of the revival!

Yes but in most cases the OWNER has left graal. And this means if the Owner leaves graal, NO ONE CAN REVIVE IT. Except if the Owner comes back to graalonline.

And if I got it right, I'm not even sure that the Owner will be able to revive data. "NO DATA WILL BE SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC".
This mean the Owner as public aswell. Anyone working outside graal, except global and people
incharge of graalonline of course.

If I got it right, Stefan just don't have the time to look for data. Because it takes alot of time and effort.

This dosn't mean people like Jigga won't be able to recover.
It means people like you and me who own servers won't be able to recover data if our servers are hacked or staff-violated.

I'm gonna follow one single rule from now on. Don't trust anyone, because if you lose your stuff.. G'd luck trying to revive it, trust me I tried reviving stuff for Providence, the support took 2 weeks just to answer. Another week for Stefan to watch the ticket. And after that I waited 3 weeks for Stefan to come help. And if not Jigga himself, helped me finding a long hacked script backup. That he himself hacked or somehow got the hand off. I would've withdrawn my attempt to revive this server.

Get your facts right.

cbk1994 · #26 12-30-2007, 11:14 PM

Get your facts right. They said if it crashed or was hacked they would give a backup. As an owner, its your responsibility to back up your server, not GraalOnlines.

Laek2007 · #27 12-31-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Get your facts right. They said if it crashed or was hacked they would give a backup. As an owner, its your responsibility to back up your server, not GraalOnlines.

I backup myserver. My recent post was about retreving some data from a old backup back in 2002. This won't be possible anymore. And yes, I just saw that I missed that. Server faliure and a hacked server will give you the oppertunity to recover data. That's all I need to know.

Bell · #28 12-31-2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laek2007

I backup myserver. My recent post was about retreving some data from a old backup back in 2002. This won't be possible anymore. And yes, I just saw that I missed that. Server faliure and a hacked server will give you the oppertunity to recover data. That's all I need to know.

5 year old backups don't even have scripts that work properly with the new engine so wouldn't it be more trouble than its worth in the long run to revive it?

I personally don't quite understand why if a developer of a server didn't want to bother saving a backup that long. Why should they expect Graal to save them in pristine condition. If I remember correctly, servers weren't even backed up as often as they are now.

Again though, just to repeat for those that like to skip through these threads.
If you have a server online and for whatever reason some disaster strikes. You can still request a backup or rollback to repair it. The time it takes to do it should, in theory, be reduced as there won't be dozens of other requests waiting in line before you.

If you however wish to get it restored instantly, I suggest each server make backups of their own.

cbk1994 · #29 12-31-2007, 05:20 AM

On Vesporia, I don't make regular backups; I'm not sure if Jave does that, but in any case, it's just me, Drake, and Jave, so I'm not too worried about anything.

On Utopia, I made daily backups. I have over 60 different backups of Utopia.

My scheme is that I backup every day; if for some reason I don't get on, no problem. I backup weapons, classes, and npcs.

On fridays and sundays (right before the big rush of development for the weekend and right after), I make a FULL backup. I organize everything like it is in the file manager. All of those full ones together are over 200 MB z.z

HoudiniMan · #30 12-31-2007, 08:35 AM

Graal has never guaranteed data integrity, so everybody should be keeping their own backups.

However, if a server crashes, or a staff member deletes everything, or the economy is ruined by bugs, etc, we will be happy to assist in any way we can to get your world back to a stable condition.

The big difference is we will not give out data for servers that are no longer online. If you want to revive a project, that is fine, but you need to find the data yourself - we won't give it to you.

So to summarize:
1) We will definitely still help with backups if anything happens to your server

2) To revive an old project you need to have the files or get them from somebody who has them - we won't give you backups of servers.

napo_p2p · #31 12-31-2007, 09:45 AM

This rule has Jigga's name all over it.

Anyways, there should be an easier way for playerworld owners/managers to make their own backups. The RC file browser is buggy at times...

It would be nice of there was the option to download whole folders (including all subdirectories) ... or maybe even some kind of read-only FTP access for playerworld owners.

DustyPorViva · #32 12-31-2007, 10:33 AM

I didn't know they gave back-ups to anyone anyways... what was I missing out on?

Tom · #33 12-31-2007, 04:04 PM

I think if people take the time to build good quality servers, staff members should take the time to recover if needed o_o

cbk1994 · #34 12-31-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I think if people take the time to build good quality servers, staff members should take the time to recover if needed o_o

By staff members do you mean Graal staff, or server staff?

HoudiniMan · #35 01-01-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I think if people take the time to build good quality servers, staff members should take the time to recover if needed o_o

We will recover the server if anything happens to it and it's online - but we won't give out backup copies of servers to people who want to revive it or use the content on something else. That content has to come from the playerbase or ex-staff who can control the access much better than we can.

Curt1zzle · #36 01-01-2008, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

We will recover the server if anything happens to it and it's online - but we won't give out backup copies of servers to people who want to revive it or use the content on something else. That content has to come from the playerbase or ex-staff who can control the access much better than we can.

Hey Whodini, will you facebook add me plz?