Events Do Not Make Up For Content!

[Crono]

Is anyone else here sick and tired of seeing the same server over and over which only has events to keep it's name up? I'm seriously tired of the same server over and over with a giant 1000000000000 level events house with 320948092.9 events. It's so stupid. To make up for nothing to do, they add events!

It pisses me off when players EXPECT events. Events were originally rare things held to get the graal community together and shove some competition up everyone's bums. Now it's just players wanting 5 events a day on any given server. It's really taken graal and is not doing it any good.

Speaking of players expecting events...

A great example would be Zone. Players there expect us to host everyother day, whether for an item or not. Events are not something you ask for. They're something you should appreciate getting even if it is once or twice a week.

I just wish servers would stop thinking that event houses are a vital part of server development. I'd rather see a server be more flexible and implement "events" into their OW.

Examples would include Xone's kingdom wars, constant server wars between Sanstrata and Mithica, and such. It's so much better then placing a 50 foot event house.

[Chicken_l33t]

I agree, and perhaps introduct player hosted events back into it like on Graal 2001 how they had CS and you could play yourself (from what I recall )

I think questing should be braught back into play more. Shaded Legend had done this really nicely, but ruined it in my oppinion with the skipping of quests =[

[Malinko]

I agree.

I mean, I guess "new age" GraalOnline has become accustomed to having events on their worlds. I think Valikorlia is the creative one because events there are big and just aren't won for some sort of benefit to gain additional items.

I remember on Unholy Nation a long time ago, I thought it would be cool for guilds to claim some random flag on the overworld and challenge other guilds to get the flag. Whether from player killing or NPCs, I thought it would be fun just to see who can hold the flag longest. There wouldn't be an end either, just to claim "superior" status.

[CidNight1142]

Well, events do have some other value on some servers. For example, on GK, events are often used to balance the economy. By releasing ECs into the population (hopefully to both noobs and oldbies, but that's up to us to balance the events correctly) you effectively force the price of both EC's and any EC based items down. Same thing with releasing brutals and GK's. Its an important balancing factor.

[Crono]

Exactly Cid. Events -shouldn't- be there to balance economies. I'm so tired of stupid event prizes being the only source of fun npcs. What happened to those good ol NPC stores where you can buy lame PKing npc books for 5000 gralats (of course after obtaining 100k from a hacker)?

Events are ruining our servers. Theres nothing to do.

[Warcaptain]

It makes me nervous about making a playerworld that really doesnt use events every 5 seconds to entertain its players.

[konidias]

It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand you say events are making up for lack of content. On the other hand you say events are things that "get the community together".

Events, technically, ARE content. Anything on the server is content. It's just that events use the same content over and over, with different items and such as prizes. Events on these servers have to be used as frequently as they are because Graal playerworlds are not big time games with huge professional teams and lots of funding. They can't release new content every day unless these people threw away their lives for nothing but your entertainment.

The reason the events exist is mainly so that developers have time to work on content while players have something to do on the server.

It's a poor reason I know. But what can you do about it? You provided no solution, just a lot of complaining. It's not as easy as to just "make more content and hold fewer, more rare events".

[Mogwai]

I don't know about this... I've seen more than just events on servers. When it comes to online interaction events seem to work great in my opinion. Not every server is developed around a leveling systems, events are just time killers that are fun.

The problem I am seeing are the various copied versions of events. Like every server has capture the flag and once a server comes out with something original many other servers just tend to copy.

As for economy... I don't see it effecting anything unless the manager doesn't know how to control it.


Edit:
Also events are simple to make, and if you consider the amount of support playerworlds get for complicated systems... it works best in this situation.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand you say events are making up for lack of content. On the other hand you say events are things that "get the community together".

I understand this, but if they are held too often (let alone in the same place) it begins to lose it's value and becomes more of a stupid everyday thing.

Events, technically, ARE content.

I understand that they are content but people seem to think that events will cover up for nothing to do. Sure they may be getting away with it now, but people like me are sick of it because every server is the same.

PK, Spar, Event house.

Quests are like, meh.

It's just that events use the same content over and over, with different items and such as prizes. Events on these servers have to be used as frequently as they are because Graal playerworlds are not big time games with huge professional teams and lots of funding.

Im sorry but Xone, Sanstrata, and Delteria did just fine back in 2001 without a bigshot events house. As a matter of fact I don't remember Xone and Sans having event houses. Delteria is a maybe.

They can't release new content every day unless these people threw away their lives for nothing but your entertainment.

I'm not asking for this. I'm asking for something that entertains the player for a long enough time to produce other things. I.E on Graal 2001 people worked hard for days to earn money. The staff had one week to release something players could buy.

The reason the events exist is mainly so that developers have time to work on content while players have something to do on the server.

The developers should develope content beforehand.

It's a poor reason I know. But what can you do about it? You provided no solution, just a lot of complaining.

Provide more content. Look back at older servers and see how they did it. For me, it's all about random npcs being released, apartment system, fun quests, etc.

It's not as easy as to just "make more content and hold fewer, more rare events".

Uh, yes it is.

[Warcaptain]

mainserver never had events.. and it was the ****.

[konidias]

Okay, but these are just your opinions. The servers wouldn't hold so many events if it didn't keep the players there. Obviously they are doing what they feel is keeping players on the server... and holding many events seems to work. You can't fault them for that.

As far as playerworlds in 2001 surviving without tons of events... yeah, that was in 2001. Lots of things change in 5 years. Graal is nothing like it was 5 years ago... I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, I'm just stating a fact. You can't expect things to work the same way forever.

Your idea is sound... Make content ahead of time and then work on more content while players enjoy what you've made so far. But that requires a dedicated team of people, and most servers don't have that. You can't expect high quality stuff from a handful of volunteers.

It really isn't easy to just make tons of content... If it were, there wouldn't be the problem you're describing now. If it's really that easy, feel free to make a server that has a ton of content and then keep it constantly updated. Tell me how easy it was compared to just tossing some events out there.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

Okay, but these are just your opinions. The servers wouldn't hold so many events if it didn't keep the players there. Obviously they are doing what they feel is keeping players on the server... and holding many events seems to work. You can't fault them for that.

Hell, they might as well make a server with just an events house. I'm sure it'll be the same thing. No wait! Even better! Each server dedicated to one event! I'm sure it's the same thing!

As far as playerworlds in 2001 surviving without tons of events... yeah, that was in 2001. Lots of things change in 5 years. Graal is nothing like it was 5 years ago... I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, I'm just stating a fact. You can't expect things to work the same way forever.

Apart from a lower playercount, what type of change?

Your idea is sound... Make content ahead of time and then work on more content while players enjoy what you've made so far. But that requires a dedicated team of people, and most servers don't have that. You can't expect high quality stuff from a handful of volunteers.

No, it requires a normal amount of staff. If a server does not even have staff that can develope something for the public server in a year, then it shouldn't even be on the classic list. Right now the classic list, excuse me, sucks. It's so bad. No one developes, they just sit there and go "ya we r developing on our dev servers lolol".

It really isn't easy to just make tons of content... If it were, there wouldn't be the problem you're describing now. If it's really that easy, feel free to make a server that has a ton of content and then keep it constantly updated. Tell me how easy it was compared to just tossing some events out there.

Obviously if I payed for a server, I would first gather up an experienced and loyal team. I'd then develope ahead of time and plan out future things I want to make. I'd then make the **** and finally when I go classic, I'd begin working on new content bit by bit. Every few weeks or so there would be a unique event where people have fun. Not some lame race that every single god damn server has.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Obviously if I payed for a server, I would first gather up an experienced and loyal team. I'd then develope ahead of time and plan out future things I want to make. I'd then make the **** and finally when I go classic, I'd begin working on new content bit by bit. Every few weeks or so there would be a unique event where people have fun. Not some lame race that every single god damn server has.

I'm sorry but you really don't understand how difficult that is. Gather up a loyal and experienced team? You made me laugh out loud. That's almost impossible. Like I said, these people volunteer their time. You won't find anyone loyal unless you're paying them. It's harsh, but true. I went through staff like they were going out of style. I think I've had nearly every well known scripter work for me at one point in time and they all bailed out. It's a LOT easier said than done.

It's obvious you don't have experience with this so it's better that you don't make a fool of yourself by saying things like you just did. You can't just release a server and dedicate your time to working on new content. You have to do so many other things as manager that you're hardly going to find time to work on anything new. You have to worry about bugs/glitches, hackers, corruption among staff, player disputes, making sure players like the content you DID develop, finding out what the players want you to make, keeping your staff active and interested in the project, etc etc etc.

You can't just release a bunch of stuff and be done with it and start working on new stuff. It's just not that simple.

If it was, this thread wouldn't exist, and neither would the problem that you're bringing attention to.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

I'm sorry but you really don't understand how difficult that is. Gather up a loyal and experienced team? You made me laugh out loud. That's almost impossible. Like I said, these people volunteer their time. You won't find anyone loyal unless you're paying them. It's harsh, but true. I went through staff like they were going out of style. I think I've had nearly every well known scripter work for me at one point in time and they all bailed out. It's a LOT easier said than done.

I'm pretty sure Wan would help me out with levels. I'm pretty sure Malinko would help me with scripting. I'm pretty sure my danish friend would help with gfx. That's all I need. Wan alone spits out high quality worldmaps in no time. Malinko works when you want him to, my friend most likely does the same.

It's obvious you don't have experience with this so it's better that you don't make a fool of yourself by saying things like you just did. You can't just release a server and dedicate your time to working on new content. You have to do so many other things as manager that you're hardly going to find time to work on anything new. You have to worry about bugs/glitches, hackers, corruption among staff, player disputes, making sure players like the content you DID develop, finding out what the players want you to make, keeping your staff active and interested in the project, etc etc etc.

You're right, which is why I'm not going to pay 100 dollars or offer to be manager like other people. The ones that HAVE released, though, have to put some work into their servers. They can't sit around and act like the server is going to evolve itself. The manager does not have to put up with player disputes, glitches, etc. That's the job of an admin.

You can't just release a bunch of stuff and be done with it and start working on new stuff. It's just not that simple.

Which is why I said you develope this privately BEFORE GOING CLASSIC. You ensure you have content which will last you a while.

If it was, this thread wouldn't exist, and neither would the problem that you're bringing attention to.

It's not my fault managers are being so slow. Hardly anything's changed since 2003-2004.

[konidias]

No offense, but you're just being an armchair quarterback and you don't really have the right to tell people how they show run their server... especially when you don't want to attempt it yourself.

As far as having content ready for release to last you "a while". How long is "a while"? Development takes time, and it's not so easy to estimate releases. What happens if the content runs out and you're not ready to release new content? That's where events come in. Ah, now we're getting somewhere!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

No offense, but you're just being an armchair quarterback and you don't really have the right to tell people how they show run their server... especially when you don't want to attempt it yourself.

I don't want to attempt it because I know I'm not fit for manager. Many people, though, don't realize this and decide to go manager anyway. Seeing as how no Classic server gets shut down, theres nothing that can be done when a manager sucks.

As far as having content ready for release to last you "a while". How long is "a while"? Development takes time, and it's not so easy to estimate releases. What happens if the content runs out and you're not ready to release new content? That's where events come in. Ah, now we're getting somewhere!

You have a team for a reason. To work. You may not be able to supply a steady set of content but the fact that you're doing more than just an events house is good enough. Feel like you're running out of content? Make an original event! Keyword, original. Keyidea, not 50 events everyday.

I know people dont host 50 times a day, but im trying to make a point here.

[Lord Sephiroth]

Especially when said events just aren't very good.
*coughnpulsecough*

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

Especially when said events just aren't very good.
*coughnpulsecough*

Npulse isnt very good at all but its still my one choices of server I play (Just to spar mainly nothing else is good)

But yea So many cheap crap events to make up for the extreme lack of content.
Fact is people would not want to do so many events if there was other things to do.

Sparring,Pking,Events..3 things to do on a online game =/ wtf is that.

[Lord Sephiroth]

I consider myself to be an expert on events and even though some people believe that to be bunk most people that know me know my background and do not question my views into these matters.

I'm not even sure if this is on topic but i'm going with this whole Events topic.

It's one thing to have a bunch of unique events that are completely different from each other, events that take skill and tact.
Servers like NP have Events that are all just remakes of other events or events that have already been done.
Bulldog is the only truly unique event that's on that server. Well that and "DTM" but that was my idea to begin with that I never followed through on.

Players get bored when they're doing the same thing over and over again. A server can't rely on Events. No one PK's anymore unless they get caught up in a guild war and Sparring is the most globally done thing on the game.

As said before this, these servers need content if they wish to survive.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

As said before this, these servers need content if they wish to survive.

No they don't. The PWA expectations are so weak that any ****ty server can make it.

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Gerami

No they don't. The PWA expectations are so weak that any ****ty server can make it.

I do not agree with this so much

The expectations are very low for Current Classic servers

and are too high for private playerworlds

Thus no private playerworlds will ever become classic if this keeps up

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Andy0687

I do not agree with this so much

The expectations are very low for Current Classic servers

Opps, this is what I meant.

and are too high for private playerworlds

Thus no private playerworlds will ever become classic if this keeps up

Not the PWA's fault that most private servers suck.

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Not the PWA's fault that most private servers suck.

Haha well met, but what I mean is that the expectations are So high for them that some worlds quit production because they dont feel they can meet the standards that the PWA expect.

I know my world has been reviewed a few times, and we get mixed reactions each time. Each PWA says something diffrent and its hard to figure out if they are all going to agree or disagree. Nothing is solid.

[warp2ukew]

I agree with you Crono, to a certain extent. For instance, on Ol\' West, we are thinking of events that will only be held once every x amount of days or so, but we will also have daily events for players to participate it.
I don\'t agree with you in the sense that you are announcing this to everyone. A perfect example is N-Pulse. N-Pulse has a lot of things to do besides events, and has greatly built up a thriving community. They have an NPC shop, with expensive items that you pay for with EC\'s (event coins). Nobody gets tired of the events because no certain person dominates an event, and with such a large playerbase there are many different people at many different times to play. They have many events and it keeps players going when they are bored, so I think it is very good of N-Pulse to have that system for their events.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Haha well met, but what I mean is that the expectations are So high for them that some worlds quit production because they dont feel they can meet the standards that the PWA expect.

Well, I myself don't know how high their expetations are but whatever it takes to get somet quality stuff.

I know my world has been reviewed a few times, and we get mixed reactions each time. Each PWA says something diffrent and its hard to figure out if they are all going to agree or disagree. Nothing is solid.

We need a PWA Admin, don't you think?

They have many events and it keeps players going when they are bored, so I think it is very good of N-Pulse to have that system for their events.

You mean bored of sitting there in the npspar arena? That's the only thing anyone does there.

[warp2ukew]

Hey, whatever works. N-Pulse has one of the highest playercounts on Graal, higher than Zone :P

<3 corono

[konidias]

I agree that it seems the requirements for going classic are far higher than remaining on the classic tab.

Most if not all of the servers currently on the classic list wouldn't pass if they were reviewed again. It makes no sense to just pass a server and then not care what it does after that.

I don't mean to just attack the servers with low playercounts either. They may have a reason for not having a high playercount and they may be trying to fix it. But some servers even with high playercounts, aren't exactly of very great quality.

[warp2ukew]

See if you can decipher this


asdfUafaNasdHasdfOasdfLasdfYasdfNasdfAasdfTasdfIas dfOasdfN

[Prozac]

does there even exist a solid list of requirements
to get on the classic or even hosted tab?
if so, where is this list?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by warp2ukew

See if you can decipher this


asdfUafaNasdHasdfOasdfLasdfYasdfNasdfAasdfTasdfIas dfOasdfN

UNHOLYNATION

You sonuva...

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Gerami

We need a PWA Admin, don't you think?

Yes and No, this is kinda hard for me to explain but i will try.

Yes we need a PWA Admin because they will help to organize the team, and get them going on projects and such, getting playerworlds reviewed and some of the more importaint PWA Tasks finished.

No I do not believe we need a PWA Admin because its likely that if we beg for one someone will just be "Appointed" probably someone everyone is likely to disagree with, or will not do the job as well as his or her predecessors.

The problem is finding the person with the time to take on such a task, and trusting them (hardest part here). I often thing that the finding the right person is overlooked because of the trust issue. Everyone is too scared to find someone to trust, so they just keep going back to the same people, which causes the problems anyways.