Graal dieing

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by TheJames

If I knew what the **** that meant, I could maybe reply.

That was why he said it.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by zokemon

That was why he said it.

Actually, I very charitably assumed that he would at least know how to find out what it means. It's not like it isn't a common term.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

All those New Overworlds? Blame Outlaw

Wrong. The first major OW change was made by someone else.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by TheJames

If I knew what the **** that meant, I could maybe reply.

First hand experience or a recount of past experience... Kinda

[Lord Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Wrong. The first major OW change was made by someone else.

After the first Major OW change Babylon still thrived better than before, only after the next "Outlaws improvement" did it start to decline, then he tried to save it by more overworlds.

[Inverness]

Graal needs more advertising or something, we need more players

[zim5354]

yes it does but it also needs some fixes moderating playerworlds, not to mention a incentive to make playerworlds.

[Okilian]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Graal needs more advertising or something, we need more players

There are a bunch of online sites that have ratings of online games. One of the other games I play gives a small incentive if you vote for the game's site, thus attracting it to be higher on the list..thus few more clicks to visit graalonline.com.

[syltburk]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Ever since everything got p2p'ized, it's been a downward spiral of population. You just haven't been around long enough to see that.

Wasn't one of the reasons that you actually had to p2p everyone complainting about the ghost mode waiting to get in?

[coreys]

I more see graal as an instrument. An instrument to make your own world. Your own game. And then to see and play the worlds and games that other people have made. Most of the good developers on graal most likely plan to be video game designers when the time comes. I know I do. I think more and more people are trying to do the staff thing, rather than play graal. Unfortunately most of them aren't good at it, and never will be. I honestly don't think graal is so much dying as it is becoming less of a playable experience. I often play graal, Maloria, to be precise. Extremely well done servers like that are where all the players go. If the good developers would spend their time on original, good servers like Maloria, or Aeon, or any other well done server then graal's popularity would most likely increase majorly. Unfortunately most of the servers that graal boasts about are not very well done in my opinion. Like N-Pulse, I think most of that server has extremely bad levels, and not much playability, or much to do. Many other server's are like that as well. You take a server like Maloria and there are a hundred different things to do at any on time, maybe even more.

[James]

I disapprove of your name.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by syltburk

Wasn't one of the reasons that you actually had to p2p everyone complainting about the ghost mode waiting to get in?

The time when people had to wait "in line" was when GraalOnline wasn't hosting other servers, when other servers were using 1.28 or 1.3 GServers. GraalOnline took it upon themselves to offer all those GServers free server space, then they turned around and said that holding those servers were too expensive, and charged for them.

If GraalOnline was really as good-intentioned as it originally tried to appear, then they would have continued releasing GServers with the latest Graal updates and they would have not hunted down the remaining of the GServers. Instead, they harvested the work others did. It continues to this day.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by James

I disapprove of your name.

O.o?

[Admins]

Originally Posted by Shaun

GraalOnline took it upon themselves to offer all those GServers free server space, then they turned around and said that holding those servers were too expensive, and charged for them.

We never started to charge for the server space for servers like Classic or Atlantis. The playerworld space renting is good for both sides because people can open servers without needing to make tons of levels and submitting them and waiting months to get the approvement, and we have more time to work on improving the game instead of verifying the quality of levels which Graal players would like to do for us anyway.

Originally Posted by Shaun

Instead, they harvested the work others did.

Did Valve create Counterstrike? No, but they still made most of their money with the hype around that. Graal is not a normal game where the game company hires an amount of gfx people who work 6 months on the project, then release the thing in shop or as online game and 2 years later it is dieing.

[Shaun]

I've never played Counterstrike nor do I really know anything about it (it's a shooter, I think, and I'm not even remotely sure of that).

GraalOnline does charge users for the full use of those playerworlds though, through the players, does it not?

Why did GraalOnline stop releasing GServer?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Did Valve create Counterstrike? No, but they still made most of their money with the hype around that. Graal is not a normal game where the game company hires an amount of gfx people who work 6 months on the project, then release the thing in shop or as online game and 2 years later it is dieing.

Didnt the CS team get payed later on anyway? They WERE producing CD's mainly for CS and such...

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

You personally tried to attack Era and Unholy Nation, can you try again please?

He did not.

[LordMatt]

Graal2001....

[Crono]

You know Graal's dying when n00bs begin to complain about it.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Gerami

You know Graal's dying when n00bs begin to complain about it.

Not really...new people will sometimes copy older players to fit in, a lot of the people who complain about things seem to not even know what they are complaining about, which is sad....

[zim5354]

how would you know this just log on and look at the population compaired to what it was two years ago.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by zim5354

how would you know this just log on and look at the population compaired to what it was two years ago.

I have no idea who you are talking to since you didn't quote anyone

[DarkShadows_Legend]

He was referring to the thread topic, thats why he didn't quote anyone.

Comparing now to 2 years ago I wouldn't say the population has dropped dramatically. Players left, and new players replaced them.

4-5 years ago compared to now, yes, huge noticeable drop.

Still I doubt anyone here except a few is able to get the exact figures on the stats.

I want more people to blow up and pk. So yeah how do you people propose we get more players without making ridiculous changes you'll all whine about like last time?

[zim5354]

well the servers are the same i mean like some servers are there whitch shouldent be (classic in its condition) also there are some good privet servers that imho should be on the classic list but i doubt any new servers will be added or changed.

[KuJi]

I think I've seen graal hit 1300 before. But..yeah..graal was free then.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by KuJi

I think I've seen graal hit 1300 before. But..yeah..graal was free then.

The playercount can hit 700-800 at a time. That's still pretty good, and P2P is'nt the main factor of why the playercount is'nt atleast 1k i think, because most of the kids whom don't have a credit card asked their parents to upgrade their account. I think the reason Graal's playercount is'nt 1k or above is mainly due to the deduction of our current playerworlds quality.

[zim5354]

graal does have pay by cash though.

[Leasure-13]

What i dont understand about graal is that you have to pay to have a server... where it is helping graal out because it is bringing anouther world to the classic tab or hosted, and then you got to have peoeple work on it (dedicated time) and them people that are good workers are hard to come apon now days. But anyhow, i know that it cost some money to run the servers on there own computers... ok, but that is where the p2p comes in. Not only that being a factor of graal, it is just no fun anymore....all the old people where replaced with immature little kids.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Leasure-13

What i dont understand about graal is that you have to pay to have a server... where it is helping graal out

Most servers don't bring in any real revenue, but they do use system resources.

[haro41]

maybe they can extend the waving of server fees to the hosted tab as well, since these projects are viewed as hopefuls.

[protagonist]

Yeah, Graal is dying.

The reasons?


As Spark said, lack of updates that everyone can appreciate. Let's be honest: most players don't really care about GScript2. They don't care if new functions are added, they want more functions that relate to them. They don't care how NPCs work, just as long as they work. If you want to interest players, put in more features that affect them directly and in an obvious way. A global messaging system for players, for example. Also, make an official server which has normal bodies, normal heads, and so on. In my opinion, the small, squat bodies of Graal appeal more to me than those of Kingdoms. Same with the tileset: use the old one and fix it up a little. I'm not saying keep it the same, but put it back to the original design and just improve the shading on those graphics. I liked it[the old tileset] far more because it encouraged that nice, clean feeling instead of the cluttery feeling that the new one has.

The normal bodies are more classic and if people really wanted super-advanced graphics they would look to other MMORPGs. Graal's aim should be to improve its playability and functionality from a player's perspective, not from a developer's. Occasional scripting updates are fine, but they shouldn't be the center point of updates. Also, most people can run Graal just fine; we don't need performance updates all of the time. What we need are, to put it frankly, more buttons to play with.

[trans9o0111]

I understand that Graal needs to charge for server hosting, since it is consuming their servers' resources. However, it is ridiculous that people have to pay to develope on non-classic tab servers. It would be in Graal's best interest if they removed the hosted/private/gold tabs (or whatever they use now) and have only a gold and classic tab. What good would come of this? I believes it would result in better Player World quality, and also allow servers that are overlooked because they ar eon hosted tabs to tap into the UN-ERA markets, thus broadening Graals appeal to the "bored" people.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

As Spark said, lack of updates that everyone can appreciate. Let's be honest: most players don't really care about GScript2. They don't care if new functions are added

But they might care about the advances that it facilitates.

Let me guess: You don't know anything about them?

[haro41]

protagonist, would you rather have had graal stay as classic, expanding and evolving on itself, rather than changing graal into something new? In a sense, moving forward, not upward? Its interesting to think about what could have been. We could all still have been playing classic to this day.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Not really...new people will sometimes copy older players to fit in, a lot of the people who complain about things seem to not even know what they are complaining about, which is sad....

...what?

I said that you know that graal is dying when n00bies begin to complain about it. these n00bs never even played old graal or anything and yet they are STILL complaining which is pathetic because graal has been the same (kinda sucked) since late 2003.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

But they might care about the advances that it facilitates.

Let me guess: You don't know anything about them?

You guess wrong, as usual. Just stick to the stuff you know.

It is doubtful that they care about the advances it facilitates to the point where they are drooling over (or even care about) every single update released, which is almost always based on fixing something in GS2. In fact, I bet they don't even pay attention to GS2 stuff or know about it (probably don't read newfeatures) It's too bad you're not quite as intelligent as some people (including yourself) might think you are. Take your attitude somewhere else, parrot. I'm tired of your repetitious arrogance.

Originally Posted by haro41

protagonist, would you rather have had graal stay as classic, expanding and evolving on itself, rather than changing graal into something new? In a sense, moving forward, not upward? Its interesting to think about what could have been. We could all still have been playing classic to this day.

I had more fun in the classic days. True, it might have worn itself out, but before P2P there were people who were alot nicer. Not everyone was, but there seemed to be a greater number of just plain nice people. Also, the "classic" gaming feel was why I started playing. Not because Graal was the most graphically advanced game on the market, but because it was Zelda-like.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

You guess wrong, as usual

And you offer no contrary evidence, as usual.

It is doubtful that they care about the advances it facilitates to the point where they are drooling over (or even care about) every single update released, which is almost always based on fixing something in GS2. In fact, I bet they don't even pay attention to GS2 stuff or know about it

Where did you learn to read? I didn't say they cared about the language. I said that they will care about the advances it facilitates.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facilitate

It's too bad you're not quite as intelligent as some people (including yourself) might think you are

Hahaha. Y'know, this whole BAD BOY VT act isn't so much intimidating as it is endearing. It's like watching a four-year-old rebelliously scowling after a stern admonishment.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And you offer no contrary evidence, as usual.

I thought we were to assume the negative if no proof for the positive was given? It is laughable that you change your standards just so that it suits your argument. Of course you'll try to talk your way out of this. Go ahead, straw man yourself.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Where did you learn to read? I didn't say they cared about the language. I said that they will care about the advances it facilitates.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facilitate

Where did you learn to read? I didn't say they didn't care about the advances it facilitates, I said they didn't care enough to actually make them feel better about the game. The only possible things that the average player would appreciate is a fix to a bug, not the addition of hidden(to them, anyway) functions. Bug fixes are not that common, and most of the time it seems updates are designed to give developers an easier time rather than adding things that players might enjoy directly.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Hahaha. Y'know, this whole BAD BOY VT act isn't so much intimidating as it is endearing. It's like watching a four-year-old rebelliously scowling after a stern admonishment.

Dude, you use snob appeal to make people think they want these updates. You just tried to tell me that I must not understand the updates if I don't think they're so great. The fact is I read the newfeatures, and I'm regularly unimpressed in doing so. "Rebellious four-year-old" is just about as solid as "self-important snob".

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by protagonist

I thought we were to assume the negative if no proof for the positive was given?

No, I said that we were to assume the default. Most non-scripters don't know anything about GS2, and you're most definitely not a scripter. The default assumption is that you're completely ignorant of what it brings, and you've given us no reason to move away from that default.

Where did you learn to read? I didn't say they didn't care about the advances it facilitates

No, your counterargument was that the players "don't even pay attention to GS2 stuff or know about it". That's great, but I never claimed that they do.

The point is that they don't need to be aware of something in order to benefit from it.

Dude, you use snob appeal to make people think they want these updates

I do? When was the last time I mentioned them, outside of this thread? Or are you basing this solely on the fact that I admonished you for speaking about something you don't understand?

You just tried to tell me that I must not understand the updates if I don't think they're so great. The fact is I read the newfeatures

Haha. Congratulations on being literate, but you're not really proving anything. What makes you think everything is in newfeatures? Graal's undergoing an apotheosis at the moment, what with the standardisation of GS2 and the advances in V4. It's a long process, but the end result is that developers will be able to make grander, richer systems than before, and they'll be able to do it twice as quickly.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, I said that we were to assume the default. Most non-scripters don't know anything about GS2, and you're most definitely not a scripter. The default assumption is that you're completely ignorant of what it brings, and you've given us no reason to move away from that default.

Alright, so wouldn't I be the best kind of person to ask about this type of thing? I know nothing about scripting. What I do know is that, currently, NPCs and so forth are good enough for me. I don't need them to be any better. There are functions I want to see that aren't being put in, apparently because all the attention on updates goes to scripting.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, your counterargument was that the players "don't even pay attention to GS2 stuff or know about it". That's great, but I never claimed that they do.

The point is that they don't need to be aware of something in order to benefit from it.

How do they benefit? They want something interesting. They want something interesting when the update happens. You're implying that a new GS2 function provides them with it. This is blatantly untrue, as you have to depend on the developers to actually make appropriate use of said function. Neat features built into the client directly are far more gratifying for the average player.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I do? When was the last time I mentioned them, outside of this thread? Or are you basing this solely on the fact that I admonished you for speaking about something you don't understand?

It's snob appeal, no matter how many times you use it or where you use it.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Haha. Congratulations on being literate, but you're not really proving anything. What makes you think everything is in newfeatures?

Total and unadulterated irrelevance. Name an update that the average player would notice that isn't in newfeatures. Most of the "covert" updates are just that: covert. Nobody knows about the updates because said updates don't affect them on a direct and obvious level. Thus, the game appears boring because nothing is updated.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Graal's undergoing an apotheosis at the moment, what with the standardisation of GS2 and the advances in V4. It's a long process, but the end result is that developers will be able to make grander, richer systems than before, and they'll be able to do it twice as quickly.

That's fine, but it's undergoing this apotheosis at the expense of interesting additions that players can actually relate to. Big updates which are far between are dangerous; people can lose interest in the game before a major addition is factored in. A number of smaller tweaks and additions should be factored in so it actually looks like the developer is doing something, rather than one huge update at the end. The way it looks now, we have a dead Graal3 project, GK is dying, and Graal3D/Graal 2001 are completely out of the picture. Graal4 is simply rumors: even though there is a thread in the bugs forum, no screenshots have been released and no actual plans for the version have been specified.