Scamming..-Legal- or -Illegal-

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by REW_darklink200

You know, I get really sick of this. This happens too many times, and Staff just sit around and say it's our fault? What about Ashtin (LordDrDw?) Remember him? He was literally chased for scamming back then, but nowadays, nothing happens. I say make it illegal. And I don't care what staff think. It's time to do something about this once and for all. And to those who want it legal, you're just the ones who like to scam. If it does stay legal, I can't wait until it happens to you. I'll just laugh and say, "Not my fault. Could've made it illegal, but nope. You had to keep it the 'fun' way."

Grir, just because you don't like something, doesn't justify making it illegal. Scamming is legitamate income and is a true roleplaying tactic, especially because thieves can't actually skill-steal from players, and I seriously doubt lords, and dievils and t-rex care about thier items, or carry anything worth stealing to begin with.

When I was a pirate and I was "Brigand" rank I roleplayed and I scammed things, although when I was off tag I always gave them back, but that's just because I am a nice guy and have a moral code that prevents me from being otherwise. I never kept anything I "stole" from someone for more than a day or two. Most of the time I never kept it for more than a few hours, keeping it for a day or more was rare, and alot of times accidental because the person logged off before I could return it.

Saying scamming should be illegal because you got scammed is like saying PvP should be illegal because you got killed.

This is like Smu's stupid post a while back when he dropped his speed ammy when he died. Ya? So what Smu? You weren't complaining when you PK'd people and snatched the loads of diamonds and EAs that they might have been carrying.

This whole poll is illogical. You simply don't ban something because someone complains and doesn't like it, that's retarded.

The clever tactics and fast talking required to scam someone in a game is what is refered to as a "player skill" in addition to your character's skills, you, as a player, have several "player skills". Hand-eye coordination, and speed of reaction are big ones, and they make or break the best FPS players, and even right down to action adventure gamers. In RPGs, it's intellect and attention to detail that shines through the most, and in a multiplayer game, especially MMORPGs, your charisma, social skills, fast talking, and good concepts of value are what shine through the most.

Don't even forget these hidden skills, they seperate the noobies from the veterans, in the real world. That's how level 1 players can be veterans while level 50+ characters can still be the newest of noobs.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by CaTigus

It's the victim's fault if one would get scammed. I personally think scamming is not a major issue, as I elaborate on my opinion, maybe you will see things differently. I can not express any stronger than the fact is, If you get scammed, It's your own fault! I only trust about 3-5 people on graal, I have known these people for long periods of time, I also have their phone number, Incase they go insane, I can bug them. Normally you can tell if someone is a scammer or not, Most people decide, Oh, But they're my friend, and I know he/she is a scammer but... I think I'm going to test my trust with him/her and show myself, and everyone else that I am friends with them. --Or something along those lines. That is one of the leading causes of scamming, Testing your trust with people. I think scamming should be legal because if your friend gets scammed and you try to scam back the items for them, You shouldn't get in trouble for it. Which will take me back to something which occured a year or so ago. Loriel was administrator of Graal Kingdoms, and Kenshin (blkeagle12) scammed Alex (Adeno) or his [Frost Shield +12?]. I, Being the good person I am, use my Ice Sword to scam it back for Alex, Which is someone I didn't even know at the time, and give it to him. I scammed kenshin over the trade tables in Bomboria, and Weeks, possibly Months later I log on and my ice sword is gone, I soon find out that Kenshin has it and loriel has edited my account and gave him my Ice Sword. Now, I am not bad talking Loriel because when blacksabbath scammed my Star Wizard Hat, Loriel restored it to me. Those who choose to let other people hold their items are fools unless you know the person extremely well, For example, Smoke or Grirahan are two of my closest friends and I would, without thinking twice, hand over all of my items to them for them to hold for me. I am also friends with Juggernaut, But I wouldn't ever give him any of my items. You see? There are ways to prevent being scammed and most of the people who are scammed are amateurs and know very little about the background of the people they are lending their items to. By a persons attitude and actions upon others you can tell whether they would scam you or not. It's hard to find trustworthy people and I suggest knowing them extremely well before just handing out your items. Scamming should be 100% legal because the owners of the items have a choice whether to hand them or out not.

Aye, well said. There are a good number of people I would and have trusted with my possesions, and Grirahan remains to be one of them, Ed another.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Yea, I haven't been saying that all along, anyways - right?

I think we all have, but obviously these people who keep saying it should be illegal aren't very good listeners.

[MasterNuke]

Neither. Illegal or legal... it will happen anyway. People will find it hard to prove since proof on Graal isn't always available or legit. I only favored illegal a little bit more since it shouldn't be happening anyway with all the trade tables and non-sense around.

My solution: Freakin add more stuff to GK already!!! Item's wouldn't be so freakin hard to get and harmful to lose if they could actually be gotten through normal non-event gameplay. Why do people whine for 1 week straight about their item being lost? Because it took them 1 month of slow repetitive gameplay to get it. It's the same problem with exp.

Graal is supposed to be a game, not a part-time job.
Example: In the event coin shop, it takes like 45 coins to make a Shield of the Sun. If you only event 3-5 event coins per week. Even if the person was extraordinary and won 2 events per week for one coin each, it would still take them 22 weeks. Mind you, the other 50+ players on GK AREN'T getting coins because they are losing the events.

And about trust... If anything, trust should be promoted. Graal is a Massive Multiplayer Online game. What is the point of being in a MMO if you're just going to play single player?


Short version:
Neither. Graal needs more non-event stuff.


Edit: And Aethorpe... holy crap man! You are a typing BEAST.

[calani]

Originally Posted by Aethorp

Wrong, GK will last a long time, look at UN, no helpful staff, no updates, no meaningful content, no amazingly new features, nothing, and look how many players they have.

UN is popular for the community, which as it is won't die off unless the server vanishes. 100+ people on at any time is a very strong community and hard to break up, no matter the sad state of the server. Besides the fact that GK doesn't have nearly the community that UN does, people play GK for a different reason: they've paid for an account, and they've spent large ammounts of that bought time working on their character and don't want that to all become wasted effort. However, when they're scammed, all those long hours spent getting that item are wasted.

Scamming would be rather easy to prevent, minus bug abuse. Just get a talented scripter or two to add a few more things and we're set.
* Things such as a second confirmation on trade tables in a popup window where each item and its value in plat is listed with a total at the bottom; this would nearly prevent people from getting scammed via a fake/replaced item (ring of adamant being replaced with a ring of adornment at the last minute), except from their own stupidity, but even then it could be taken up with staff to remedy.. or it could also be fixed by the next idea:
* adding a previous owner flag to items traded via trade tables, and give both parties the option to trade back (instant trade no matter where either player is) for a short period of time while both players are online (time doesn't decrease if either one is offline), and also make it so that these items cannot be dropped until that time is up.
* adding ownership to dropped items (owners account on a flag on the item dropped) so that the item cannot be picked up by someone else for a period of time, and after that if someone picks it up, both accounts go into a log showing that the item was 'traded'

This way everything would have a second confirmation or a period of time to cancel the trade in the case of dropping items, and everything would be logged. As it is, dropping/picking up items from the ground isn't logged, so its impossible to check to see if someone is telling the truth.

Adding a few features would help prevent scamming/thievery (showing a weapon to a friend in the dungeon and someone else runs up and grabs it), and also it would help as everything would be logged so that if something does happen, staff can actually do something about it.

[Moonite]

Ban a Few Scammers a few months.. that will stop them to...

[CaTigus]

Originally Posted by Moonite

Ban a Few Scammers a few months.. that will stop them to...

I guess that would include you.

[Moonite]

Tig stop crying because u get owned in a game.
its the circle of life getting owned by me

[Methril]

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

look at UN, no helpful staff, no updates, no meaningful content, no amazingly new features, nothing, and look how many players they have.

I love that

[Googi]

It's time for a BLAST FROM THE PAST

-------

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Grir, just because you don't like something, doesn't justify making it illegal.

Originally Posted by Nastazio(Karakaze member)

*Nastazio_GP (RC): You don't just change a rule because you don't like it1
Loriel - AFK: I change the rule if it doesn't make much sense, and if 3498234 people are complaining

-------

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Scamming is legitamate income and is a true roleplaying tactic, especially because thieves can't actually skill-steal from players, and I seriously doubt lords, and dievils and t-rex care about thier items, or carry anything worth stealing to begin with.

Originally Posted by Valder(Also a Karakaze member)

But isn't scamming part of Karakaze's RP "mood"? So if you are RPing, it can't be illegal

-------

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

The clever tactics and fast talking required to scam someone in a game is what is refered to as a "player skill" in addition to your character's skills, you, as a player, have several "player skills". Hand-eye coordination, and speed of reaction are big ones, and they make or break the best FPS players, and even right down to action adventure gamers. In RPGs, it's intellect and attention to detail that shines through the most, and in a multiplayer game, especially MMORPGs, your charisma, social skills, fast talking, and good concepts of value are what shine through the most.

Originally Posted by TrueHeaT(Karakaze leader)

it's about filling the position of "mischevious very chaotic neutral bandit people" that every movie and story always have.

Karakaze, by the way, later on destroyed RPing on 2k1 by having their staff insiders delete kingdoms that they didn't like.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Anyone remember the Mojave desert payphone?

There was a payphone out in the middle of nowhere in the desert, some people found it, and it was a big phenomenon, people went to drive out there and were too stupid to realize they would need water, so they took it down "for the good of all".

Pfft, if someone is too stupid to bring water on a trip into the desert and they die of dehydration, they didn't deserve to live to begin with, this is called "natural selection", and humans are the only species that is being tainted by bad genes because the government protects these idiots from thier own stupidity that would naturally kill them.

Double posting, I know, but I cannot edit and I wanted to add to this...


http://www.deuceofclubs.com/moj/mojave.html

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Moonite

Tig stop crying because u get owned in a game.
its the circle of life getting owned by me

Stop being petty, not everyone who visits and uses these forums is as pathetic as you are.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Stop being petty, not everyone who visits and uses these forums is as pathetic as you are.

Ya, he is pretty pathetic. :x

[Splke]

Aethorpe is the reason for tree structure classes.. -_-''''''''


~

Anyways. Scamming = Legal. Juggernaut = Coolest kid on Graal.

That's just my two-cents, that nobody cares about / asked for.

[chrisga101]

Ok, and about the illegal bug? Staff is **** on GK, I know 3 people who got scammed by an illegal bug and I have PROOF who it was.........but they don't care GK sucks thats why I quit. I say "Good Riddance."

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by chrisga101

Ok, and about the illegal bug? Staff is **** on GK, I know 3 people who got scammed by an illegal bug and I have PROOF who it was.........but they don't care GK sucks thats why I quit. I say "Good Riddance."

1 entry found for Good Riddance.

good riddance

Also, good riddance to bad rubbish. A welcome loss or departure. This expression is often used as an exclamation. For example, The principal has finally retired, and most of the teachers are saying, "Good riddance!" or When Jean decided to give up her violin her relieved family quietly said, "Good riddance to bad rubbish.". [Late 1700s]

Good riddance to what, exactley?

[Splke]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

1 entry found for Good Riddance.

good riddance

Also, good riddance to bad rubbish. A welcome loss or departure. This expression is often used as an exclamation. For example, The principal has finally retired, and most of the teachers are saying, "Good riddance!" or When Jean decided to give up her violin her relieved family quietly said, "Good riddance to bad rubbish.". [Late 1700s]

Good riddance to what, exactley?

The awful Principle (Graal Kingdoms).