Scamming..-Legal- or -Illegal-

[chrisga101]

GK has had many problems with scamming, how can they fix it? Easy..make scamming illegal. Here is a poll please be honest with your votes.

[Crono]

Scamming should be illegal for everyone but the thief class. That way classes become a LITTLE MORE USEFUL.

[calani]

Illegal, yes.
Hard to prove anything, though, so many people would get off free, but for those with plausable evidence against them, they should be punished, unless they can prove it otherwise.

Even a nice court setting with a jury of players would be a nice added touch. Impractical, probably, but something needs to be done.
GK is losing players, as you all should be able to see, and this is mainly because of staff not helping/being able to help, few updates, and because of scammers. Something needs to change or GK won't last long.

Any ideas?

[Craigus]

People quit all the time due to scammers, they destroy what people have worked very hard to achieve, scamming should be illegal and bannable in my opinion (aslong as there are table logs of some sort to prove)

[chrisga101]

Yeah table logs should be proof enough or even a screan shot =\

[Sam]

If you use a trade table or the trade system nobody can scam your stuff! And if you give your stuff to someone and he give it back it is your problem that you trust somebody you better not trust!
Staff is not able to watch always all around who scam stuff or who got the right on an item from someone else.

If you not able to remember this simple rules it´s you problem that your stuff is gone. So think about who you can trust and who not!

Scamming is not the same as hacking! That are two different things.

[calani]

A simple thing to add that would help reduce scamming is to add another confirmation on table trades. one that brings up a window with all the items of both sides listed in two columns and the item's respective value in plat listed next to them, and a total at the bottom. This would help prevent people from replacing the item they're trading with a look-alike and fooling the other player (ros -> ring of adornment).
Also, adding logging to dropping/picking up items on the ground (maybe only if their value is greater than a certain ammount to reduce log size), and also put a flag on the item to denote who its original owner is so the logs would show both accounts.

Again, if something doesn't change, there may not be a GK left for Graalonline to make money on. It is in their best interest to change the way things are being done, as things are obviously not working as it is.

[saetarshadowflare]

scammers should be punished too many people have been scammed also usding is becoming a big problem i think if enough players know about a scam it should be fixed like what juggernaut did to mydia and kinkino he should be banned or in my opinion beaten with a plush hammer

[calani]

Jugs isn't being banned for what he did to Mydia because staff can't track it down to either jugs or plasma. Jugs logged on Mydias account and swiped all the items. Mydia later logged on and found that her items were gone. However, since Jugs ip isn't on Mydia's account any longer, since she logged in and found that her items were gone, nothing is being done, since it can't be tracked. Its pathetic.

[chrisga101]

The reason its sutch a problem is because WE PAY to play this game and if we get scammed the items it took us a long time to EARN...why play the game? Scammers come on and scamm and get it free its bull**** that they get away with it.

[Sam]

It´s currently impossible to prevent all criminal activities. It´s like in real life!
Be careful with your stuff, NEVER give someone else your acc. or password and dont lend stuff to another player when you cannot be sure, he will give it back to you.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Scamming should be illegal for everyone but the thief class. That way classes become a LITTLE MORE USEFUL.

That's a great way for thiefs to be discriminated against.

[protagonist]

Currently, isn't the rule that scamming is only illegal if you abuse a bug or something like this? I think it should be changed to = illegal.

[saetarshadowflare]

its funny that some people wonder why im quitting graal chris is right we do get scammed on a game we pay for so im quitting graal for world of warcraft and kicking juggs ass this summer for being a *** (i know it wasnt plasma because ive talked to him jugg just became a douche )

[calani]

Point proven.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

its funny that some people wonder why im quitting graal chris is right we do get scammed on a game we pay for so im quitting graal for world of warcraft

And you don't think the same thing would happen there? Haha.

and kicking juggs ass this summer for being a *** (i know it wasnt plasma because ive talked to him jugg just became a douche )

And people are incapable of putting on an act to make you think it wasn't them?

-----

Anyway. Sure, scamming should be illegal if it can be proven. I challenge you to come up with a good definition of 'scamming' and a sure-fire way that it can be proven.

[Curt1zzle]

Legal.

Adds spice and weeds out the *****s.

[saetarshadowflare]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Legal.

Adds spice and weeds out the *****s.

so your a ***** then?

and Lance scamming doesnt happen on WoW because once you use an item that is somewhat valuable its bound to you unless you get it soul broken that and its way more worth the monthly fee and i also know plasma pretty well to know its not him =D

[Lance]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

and Lance scamming doesnt happen on WoW because once you use an item that is somewhat valuable its bound to you unless you get it soul broken that and its way more worth the monthly fee

How, then, do you trade fairly awesome stuff?

and i also know plasma pretty well to know its not him =D

I've heard it so many times before.

[Curt1zzle]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

so your a ***** then?

How did that make any sense?

You're not a very bright guy, are ye?

The "*****s" would be those who get scammed, not the scammer.

[fireedragn]

Legal. It is a roleplaying game. I think it is perfectly fine for someone to roleplay as someone making a living ripping off people.

Kinda like a Pirate.

Ha, yeah right.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by fireedragn

Kinda like a Pirate.

Ha, yeah right.

AKA the Karakaze excuse.

[middo]

I only accept the item stealing of role-playing excuse if its a roleplaying item.
Not something that someone slaved OOC hours to get, then have scammed by some tard.

[Malinko]

Scamming is legal if it's one of those player trust issues. It's your problem if you fall for "Hey, give me your weapon so I can enchant it." and not get it back.

It is only illegal if it's done by a bug/glitch.

[Todd45]

Right Malinko. It's not anyone elses fault but yours if someone takes all of your items because you "trust" them. If your smart, you will always rightclick the items on a trade table before trading. If it's a fake, then the words won't show up in the bottom right of your screen.

[Methril]

How could it possibly be made illegal? Obviously it cannot. If both players are of equal status, they therefore cannot have each other banned by their own hearsay.

[REW_darklink200]

You know, I get really sick of this. This happens too many times, and Staff just sit around and say it's our fault? What about Ashtin (LordDrDw?) Remember him? He was literally chased for scamming back then, but nowadays, nothing happens. I say make it illegal. And I don't care what staff think. It's time to do something about this once and for all. And to those who want it legal, you're just the ones who like to scam. If it does stay legal, I can't wait until it happens to you. I'll just laugh and say, "Not my fault. Could've made it illegal, but nope. You had to keep it the 'fun' way."

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Methril

How could it possibly be made illegal? Obviously it cannot. If both players are of equal status, they therefore cannot have each other banned by their own hearsay.

That's why we have logs.

[CaTigus]

It's the victim's fault if one would get scammed. I personally think scamming is not a major issue, as I elaborate on my opinion, maybe you will see things differently. I can not express any stronger than the fact is, If you get scammed, It's your own fault! I only trust about 3-5 people on graal, I have known these people for long periods of time, I also have their phone number, Incase they go insane, I can bug them. Normally you can tell if someone is a scammer or not, Most people decide, Oh, But they're my friend, and I know he/she is a scammer but... I think I'm going to test my trust with him/her and show myself, and everyone else that I am friends with them. --Or something along those lines. That is one of the leading causes of scamming, Testing your trust with people. I think scamming should be legal because if your friend gets scammed and you try to scam back the items for them, You shouldn't get in trouble for it. Which will take me back to something which occured a year or so ago. Loriel was administrator of Graal Kingdoms, and Kenshin (blkeagle12) scammed Alex (Adeno) or his [Frost Shield +12?]. I, Being the good person I am, use my Ice Sword to scam it back for Alex, Which is someone I didn't even know at the time, and give it to him. I scammed kenshin over the trade tables in Bomboria, and Weeks, possibly Months later I log on and my ice sword is gone, I soon find out that Kenshin has it and loriel has edited my account and gave him my Ice Sword. Now, I am not bad talking Loriel because when blacksabbath scammed my Star Wizard Hat, Loriel restored it to me. Those who choose to let other people hold their items are fools unless you know the person extremely well, For example, Smoke or Grirahan are two of my closest friends and I would, without thinking twice, hand over all of my items to them for them to hold for me. I am also friends with Juggernaut, But I wouldn't ever give him any of my items. You see? There are ways to prevent being scammed and most of the people who are scammed are amateurs and know very little about the background of the people they are lending their items to. By a persons attitude and actions upon others you can tell whether they would scam you or not. It's hard to find trustworthy people and I suggest knowing them extremely well before just handing out your items. Scamming should be 100% legal because the owners of the items have a choice whether to hand them or out not.

[ReBorn_Spirit]

I know scamming on the MUD (Multi User Dungoen) I host is illegal by default, and the staff(Gods) are supposed to enforce some kind of rule on the players(Mortals) about scamming items. GK is supposed to be an RP server, well if this were real life, I really dont think we would care if they were in peaceful mode or not, but rather just kill the theif. Sometimes I think staff are hipocrits.

[Butz]

If it were being done in an RP sense, it wouldn't be so bad.
However, I have never seen an item scammed away using any sort of roleplay at all. They've all been because of quick mistakes, foolishness, or overtrusting.
If it isn't made illegal, then maybe one of the tutorial NPCs on the start island should brief people of the dangers of everyday life before they reach the archipelago. Tell them to get to trusting people before they start lending things out.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by chrisga101

GK has had many problems with scamming, how can they fix it? Easy..make scamming illegal. Here is a poll please be honest with your votes.

Scamming should not be illegal, period, now, if it's abusing a bug to scam, that IS illegal, but if someone convinces someone else to hand them an item through lies or other tricky means and keeps them, that is perfectly fair, it's called thievery, there is a class dedicated to it, and it goes without saying that anyone stupid enough to release thier possesions into the hands of a questionable character doesn't deserve to have them in the first place.

The only people who get "scammed" and complain about it are those who weren't intelligent enough to avoid it. Whilst I have seen a few people get scammed and don't complain, because they know it is fair, and they just know better next time.

Scamming should not be illegal, but bug abuse should be better enforced and "rare" items should be made more common rather than be let alone to go on destroying the economy.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by calani

Something needs to change or GK won't last long.

Wrong, GK will last a long time, look at UN, no helpful staff, no updates, no meaningful content, no amazingly new features, nothing, and look how many players they have.

You fail to consider the fact that while so many of us wish more content was being added, and wish that the staff would care about what was going on, the game is highly addictive, and the community is too strong to be broken apart even by poor implementation and upkeep.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

If you use a trade table or the trade system nobody can scam your stuff! And if you give your stuff to someone and he give it back it is your problem that you trust somebody you better not trust!
Staff is not able to watch always all around who scam stuff or who got the right on an item from someone else.

If you not able to remember this simple rules it´s you problem that your stuff is gone. So think about who you can trust and who not!

Scamming is not the same as hacking! That are two different things.

Very rough english, but listen to this man, he knows what the hell he is talking about.

There are two forms of safe trading, there is no reason for anyone to be complaining about scamming, if you drop something on the ground and someone takes it, it's your fault, shutup. If you give someone to someone and they don't give it back, it's your fault, shutup.

There *are* table logs, they exist for the event of server crashes and software bugs, not because you want to reverse a trade that didn't go your way. Besides, I've lost things on tables because of server bugs and there isnt even anyone to check the logs.

The biggest problem with GK is that there are like 2 people with any actual power on the server, and neither of them care, then there are like a dozen other people who people "think" have power on the server, that actually don't, or what little power they have is useless aside from running events.

I am for more people, mature and responsible people, being given RC access and more power over the GK shard, because there are alot of people who would like to see the server flourish, but the simple fact is, the people with the power to do anything, do nothing.

Long live GK, under new management.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by calani

Also, adding logging to dropping/picking up items on the ground (maybe only if their value is greater than a certain ammount to reduce log size), and also put a flag on the item to denote who its original owner is so the logs would show both accounts.

Again, if something doesn't change, there may not be a GK left for Graalonline to make money on. It is in their best interest to change the way things are being done, as things are obviously not working as it is.

The only thing that I see this would benefit from is that all rare/event items should be given an item ID and they should be tracked, so that staff know how many are in circulation at any given time, no one here would be complaining about scamming if they didn't lose things that cost them 20+ hours of diamond hunting etc to purchase, once again, the simple solution is to reduce the rarity of sought after items.

Doing this would kill 15 birds with one stone, if you understand the analogy.

Think about it, a few things it would change:

Items would not cost insane amounts of time and effort as they would be more frequently obtainable, thereby making the loss of such items far less devestating.

It would also bring the social interaction back to reality, as there will be more nice items to go around, so it would disrupt the current standstill hierarchies of the kingdoms, the players right now who current have the most power are only so powerful because they have all the finest items money can buy, and even continue to buy more only to hoard them and make them unobtainable to others, thereby reducing thier competition. It's a monopoly of rare and valuable event items, it causes a seperation of players into "strugglers" and "power players".

I've tested this theory. As a beginner to the world, it's incredibly difficult to get anywhere. However, take that same beginner, give them a single event item, even a lower value one, such as a frost shield, and through proper trading, they will be able to advance into the class of "power players" while the other beginner is still struggling to sell bomy hearts to the vendors.

Power on the server is shown in the amount and rarity of the items a player possesses, we need to change this, it is not good.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by calani

Jugs isn't being banned for what he did to Mydia because staff can't track it down to either jugs or plasma. Jugs logged on Mydias account and swiped all the items. Mydia later logged on and found that her items were gone. However, since Jugs ip isn't on Mydia's account any longer, since she logged in and found that her items were gone, nothing is being done, since it can't be tracked. Its pathetic.

Solution, do not give your password to ANYONE, and in the event that you do, change it immediately afterwards.

It's pathetic that Mydia thinks anything should be done about it, it's her fault, period, end of story. Change your password, life goes on.

[Obs311]

Ok, here we go, my opinion:

Scamming = bad...mmmk?

I mean come on...why waste your time to get a virtual item on a video game from some poor other player who wasted his time to get the item? Do people have to sink that low? It's a game for crying out loud...do something more constructive instead of tricking some stupid person into a scam.

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Schlurfy

It´s currently impossible to prevent all criminal activities. It´s like in real life!
Be careful with your stuff, NEVER give someone else your acc. or password and dont lend stuff to another player when you cannot be sure, he will give it back to you.

Once again, Sam proves his wisdom to all, it's not a complex problem here people, if you want to keep your stuff, be careful with it. Don't give items you value to people you don't trust. Don't give your password to ANYONE. Not only for loss of items, but because it's against the rules of graal. Anyone who is complaining about other people logging on thier account doesn't deserve to play graal anyways, they should be banned. Sharing accounts is against the rules for this reason exactly.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Once again, Sam proves his wisdom to all, it's not a complex problem here people, if you want to keep your stuff, be careful with it. Don't give items you value to people you don't trust.

Yea, I haven't been saying that all along, anyways - right?

[Aethorpe]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Legal.

weeds out the *****s.

Anyone remember the Mojave desert payphone?

There was a payphone out in the middle of nowhere in the desert, some people found it, and it was a big phenomenon, people went to drive out there and were too stupid to realize they would need water, so they took it down "for the good of all".

Pfft, if someone is too stupid to bring water on a trip into the desert and they die of dehydration, they didn't deserve to live to begin with, this is called "natural selection", and humans are the only species that is being tainted by bad genes because the government protects these idiots from thier own stupidity that would naturally kill them.