Miscellaneous Kingdom Discussion

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Send me a forum PM with some of these links that I have done this, if you can find any.

I see 5 moderators at the Dustari forums. You are one of them, but no one ever said you were corrupt.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Its all in how you RP so buck up and try it.

That's the difference - in Forest they do RP. Perhaps some people in Dustari RP, but unfortunatly not the majority.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

What if its more successful than ever but has slightly evolved its style of music?

What if most of the old fans left it and all those still following it are stupid EMO punk types who have no individuality?

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I have long since accepted people won't implement zurk's bad ideas.

They're not Zurk's, they're Tyhms or Stefans, possibly Unixmad - it is damned clear the Zormites evolved from Classic's Zorbis.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Check the stickies in the zormite forum, and search backwards for older posts in there.

I can't adress things that aren't printed in the same thread. By doing that, I still am more open to other things then you, because you can't even bring it up to scroll down or up a little.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

2k1 is dead. When people say 'Dustari' or 'Zormite' they are not talking about 2k1, obviously.

Or perhaps the fact that this is a subforum of the 2k2 section of Graal Communication center matters? You could have thought of that

Originally Posted by busyrobot

The fact that they are nonsensical doesn't mean they are beyond my understanding.

The fact that you interprete them as nonsensical while others don't sure does.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

We do in Dustari. Its called Roleplaying.

Then I'd love to see them

Originally Posted by busyrobot

He can offer input and suggestions, but he does not have any dictatoral veto power to tell them all what to do and force them to do everything his way.

But he doesn't. You seem pretty contradicting to me - first you say GK doesn't RP in general, then you say you made almost all of Dustari RP. You seemed to have shut yourself off of reality whenever someone says that your kingdom doesn't RP, telling us to make suggestions for it to become better but in the meanwhile accusing us of dictatorial veto when most of us agree upon something and suggest it should be done.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

If someone goes to a town hall meeting, makes a suggestion, gets overruled, if they insist on disrupting all further proceedings because they didn't get their way, they get arrested.

That's swell. We're not in a town hall though. Besides, decromacy doesn't work in such a small circle.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You?

So? I take the same point of view, I like it.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I never said I don't care what you say, I said you are often saying things that are irrelevant or nonsensical, such as crude insults and declarations of your views as if they were a mandate in themselves.

I don't care about who says what, just what is said, its the only way to have a fair and open debate or evolution of a topic.

That said though, the fish argument is really dead. I don't say that as my opinion, but based on the fact that A) Zormite doesn't want it B) Zormite has control of its own RP destiny. C) Former members, no matter how involved with the early development, can't dictate down the road how things are to be run - they can only make suggestions, and should, if their suggestions are not approved, be civil about it.

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

I see 5 moderators at the Dustari forums. You are one of them, but no one ever said you were corrupt.

That's the difference - in Forest they do RP. Perhaps some people in Dustari RP, but unfortunatly not the majority.


What if most of the old fans left it and all those still following it are stupid EMO punk types who have no individuality?


They're not Zurk's, they're Tyhms or Stefans, possibly Unixmad - it is damned clear the Zormites evolved from Classic's Zorbis.


I can't adress things that aren't printed in the same thread. By doing that, I still am more open to other things then you, because you can't even bring it up to scroll down or up a little.


Or perhaps the fact that this is a subforum of the 2k2 section of Graal Communication center matters? You could have thought of that


The fact that you interprete them as nonsensical while others don't sure does.


Then I'd love to see them


But he doesn't. You seem pretty contradicting to me - first you say GK doesn't RP in general, then you say you made almost all of Dustari RP. You seemed to have shut yourself off of reality whenever someone says that your kingdom doesn't RP, telling us to make suggestions for it to become better but in the meanwhile accusing us of dictatorial veto when most of us agree upon something and suggest it should be done.


That's swell. We're not in a town hall though. Besides, decromacy doesn't work in such a small circle.


So? I take the same point of view, I like it.

A) If you think people are acting corruptly in a forums, report it to a supermod. Nappa reported me to Lance for instance once, then stefan overruled him.
B) I have never seen forest RP, but I don't assume they don't. I don't expect Forest to justify their existence to me.
C) They could have become a cover band for Barry Manilow for all I care, artistic licence is up to the members, not former members.
D) Stefan has never made any requests or statements asking Zormite to enforce fish head gfx. Nor has Unixmad. They out rank the kingdom leaders, and unless they appoint some other position that also outranks kingdom leaders, then they are the only ones who do. Unless they say it is to be enforced, you have no right to enforce it, anymore than I can force anything on Forest.
E) Sure you can. Its documented history. Its context. Now I can't scroll? Back it up.
F) LOL now you are making faces at me for not defeating your own arguments in the means you would? I stated Zurk hates Dustari, you stated he doesn't hate Dustari...on 2k1. I stated that is irrelevant, as when I or pretty much anyone says Dustari we are not talking about 2k1, but 2k2. So what is your point about subforums? Again, you are looking to argue.
G) There is a such thing as preaching to the choir. If the end result of an argument is shared between people, then those other people rarely effectively pick apart the argument that lead to that conclusion. It doesn't make the argument right, nor does it make the end result right. More people agree with me than agree with you - does that mean I am right? Fact is both sides have people that disagree.
H) I've love to see Forest RP, but I don't. However, its not because Forest doesn't, its because I am not in forest.
I) GK does not in general, RP. I have always enforced, RPing in Dustari. That is not in any way contradictory. I have never opposed people offering suggestions, I have only opposed people trying to enforce their suggestions after they have been discussed and decided against. It would be as bad form as if my vision for say, armor class changes was proposed to stefan, and after he said he had other ideas in mind, if I mindlessly spammed the forums and harassed him and dragged thread after thread off its intended topic to rehash my old idea, trying to bludgeon him into doing things my way.
That and only that, is what I oppose, and it is what Nappa, Zurkiba, and yourself are doing. Its an old old idea, and it was proposed, and decided against. Thats all historical fact.

PS: Sorry to all the pirates who have to see this dumb, long annoying exchange.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

...in your opinion, and its duly noted. However, I think the current leaders and members of zormite disagree, and naturally, they have the right to do things their way.

[Nappa]

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

No, you do not have the right to smack myself or anyone in the face. Your opinion about zormite is undoubtly just that, an opinion. I have no trouble responding to any of your statements, but that doesn't change the fact that stating your opinion as if it was a message from god, as a plain mandate with no basis, is no more compelling than if I were to say "Nappa needs to quit forest or they will always face reduced activity of their members" or something to that effect.
What is annoying is that there are people who, for whatever reason, insist on telling other kingdoms what to do even though they have no involvement whatsoever, dispite their suggestions having already been given more airtime than they deserve.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

No, you do not have the right to smack myself or anyone in the face. Your opinion about zormite is undoubtly just that, an opinion. I have no trouble responding to any of your statements, but that doesn't change the fact that stating your opinion as if it was a message from god, as a plain mandate with no basis, is no more compelling than if I were to say "Nappa needs to quit forest or they will always face reduced activity of their members" or something to that effect.
What is annoying is that there are people who, for whatever reason, insist on telling other kingdoms what to do even though they have no involvement whatsoever, dispite their suggestions having already been given more airtime than they deserve.

Advisors tell leaders what to do yet they themself are not the leader.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Advisors tell leaders what to do yet they themself are not the leader.

They don't tell them what to do, they advise them what to do. There is a big difference, and I don't have a problem with nappa or anyone else offering advice.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

A) If you think people are acting corruptly in a forums, report it to a supermod. Nappa reported me to Lance for instance once, then stefan overruled him.

I don't mind it, just wanted to make clear what was ment with the corruption.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

B) I have never seen forest RP, but I don't assume they don't. I don't expect Forest to justify their existence to me.

Relevance?

Originally Posted by busyrobot

C) They could have become a cover band for Barry Manilow for all I care, artistic licence is up to the members, not former members.

Still you can't compare bands with kingdoms - a new band is easily formed and it won't be terribly difficult to get the others to rename their band. This unfortunatly is not possible with kingdoms.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

D) Stefan has never made any requests or statements asking Zormite to enforce fish head gfx. Nor has Unixmad. They out rank the kingdom leaders, and unless they appoint some other position that also outranks kingdom leaders, then they are the only ones who do. Unless they say it is to be enforced, you have no right to enforce it, anymore than I can force anything on Forest.

Relevance? Besides, what would you say if you helped Dustari to greatness, then on G3D someone gets ahead of it and makes some average bomy kingdom of it or whatnot?

Originally Posted by busyrobot

E) Sure you can. Its documented history. Its context. Now I can't scroll? Back it up.

You do not wish to perform the simple action of scrolling up or down this page so you can see what Nappa had posted. You expect Zurk to quote it for you. Then you think it's reasonable if we performed even more 'labor' by having to go all the way to the Zormite forums, and search up old threads? You can't expect us to read almost the entire Zormite forums while you can't even bring it up to browse this one thread.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Again, you are looking to argue.

No, I was saying you were right.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

G) There is a such thing as preaching to the choir. If the end result of an argument is shared between people, then those other people rarely effectively pick apart the argument that lead to that conclusion. It doesn't make the argument right, nor does it make the end result right. More people agree with me than agree with you - does that mean I am right? Fact is both sides have people that disagree.

Relevance?

Originally Posted by busyrobot

H) I've love to see Forest RP, but I don't. However, its not because Forest doesn't, its because I am not in forest.

I'm asking for the RP profiles. Surely those are documented somewhere? And if not, I have a website, which I believe is in my profile, where you can.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

and yourself are doing.

Then what exactly have I been trying to push down everybody's throat lately? Please tell me.


"PS: Sorry to all the pirates who have to see this dumb, long annoying exchange."
Yes. We should be suggesting things here, right? Guess what. That isn't the purpose of this thread.

[busyrobot]

GZ, what you are 'suggesting' is the wholesale distruption and gutting of a GK kingdom, you can't turn zormite into something it is not without undoing the last several years of history. Then you claim since you see forest RP, (and you should you are in it) but don't see Zormite RP (you aren't in it to see it) that somehow now Zormite, needs to justify its existance, to you.

That is not right in the head. I did reread all of nappa's posts, I didn't see anything meaningful. I honestly did not see anything. Now, since you are the ones who want to gut Zormite - I want to leave it alone - perhaps it wouldn't be exactly too much to ask for you to say, read their history in their forums. Of course in someone like Nappa's head, he can't see that its gutting Zormite because unless Zormite exists in the exact way of his liking at all times he can't even acknowledge it's existance. But the fact is, Zormite has existed on GK for all of GK's life. It will continue to have the right to exist. It just shows how little some people care about RPing, when you have some kingdoms, such as KJ, that could actually use some help with the topic - yet when a few people have their egos bruised because their idea is not used by a kingdom that has thrived and made a unique and diverse history for itself on GK, that dominates your minds. If nappa really cared about Zormite, and not just his ideas, he would not be out to hurt it constantly, now would he?

As for Dustari being turned into a bomy kingdom on 3D - if they do that, that is fine by me. I'd state my feelings on the topic, that I didn't like the idea, and ask what they felt it brought and if there was another way to achieve thier goals that allowed for a medieval/fantasy Dustari, but its not my decision, so after making the suggestion, of course, I would welcome their choice.
I mean really, who am I to enforce my ideas on someone else's kingdom? I own zero intellectual property on GK. If I worried how others may change my ideas down the road, I'd get nothing done. Try designing websites for a living, and go back a year later and see the gfx you have done for a client's site, rearranged in a disjointed fashion. You'd get over childish reactions like Nappa's in a hurry or you wouldn't be able to stay in the business.

PS: I do have an RP profile, I don't post it on a site. If you want to get to know my character in character, try talking to my character, in character in the game sometime.

[Zurkiba]

We're not enforcing ideas apon other kingdoms. You dont see Zormite as fishes.

What we are doing is stating that what Zormite is doing is against the storyline, and against everything in the book in general.

The fact is this, Zormite is lazy. That is why they are not fishes.
Aki doesn't want to be a fish, yet she wants to be the leader.

You say that years of history has taken place. You ask us how we can ignore it. Well how can the current Zormite state ignore the fact that they were a fish kingdom? If they could be a fish one day, and the next day be human (in a literal sense this happened) then I see no problem with them reverting in the same fashion as technically the human part hasn't happened yet, they're still fishes.

You stated that if Stefan and Unixmad wanted to, they could enforce the fish race on the Zormites. Apparently they dont care about the roleplaying community because they havn't done anything in the Samurai situation have they?

I found Nappa's comments to be fullfilling enough to answer your statements. Because you put down Nappa's comments gives us the right to say that you're losing this arguement because all of your statements have been solved with higher logic and better arguements.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

We're not enforcing ideas apon other kingdoms. You dont see Zormite as fishes.

Nor has almost anyone who plays GK, seen them as fishes in ages. That would be because they are not and have not been fishes, in ages.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

What we are doing is stating that what Zormite is doing is against the storyline, and against everything in the book in general.

The fact is this, Zormite is lazy. That is why they are not fishes.
Aki doesn't want to be a fish, yet she wants to be the leader.

You say that years of history has taken place. You ask us how we can ignore it. Well how can the current Zormite state ignore the fact that they were a fish kingdom? If they could be a fish one day, and the next day be human (in a literal sense this happened) then I see no problem with them reverting in the same fashion as technically the human part hasn't happened yet, they're still fishes.

They have been human for years, period, that is a fact. They have thrived and roleplayed and in general, been one of the better kingdoms on GK. There is no centralized Book of Graal and every kingdom has changed and developed over time. Sometimes graal has elves in the forest, sometimes its vikings, all that matters is that people RP decently enough and have fun.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

You stated that if Stefan and Unixmad wanted to, they could enforce the fish race on the Zormites. Apparently they dont care about the roleplaying community because they havn't done anything in the Samurai situation have they?

First, Stefan and Unixmad not doing exactly what you or I may think is the best thing for RPing....is not the same as them not caring. There are arguments they are not concerned with RPing, but regardless one thing is a fact; the actual staff have the first rank of authority, below that is the kingdom leaders, who are in charge of their kingdoms respectively. If the members of a kingdom dislike their leader and it causes long term problems, then its possible to ask stefan to step in at that point.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I found Nappa's comments to be fullfilling enough to answer your statements. Because you put down Nappa's comments gives us the right to say that you're losing this arguement because all of your statements have been solved with higher logic and better arguements.

No, you found his conclusions fullfilling enough, I doubt you paid any attention to his comments.

Because I put down Nappa's comments? He's the one who talks about smacking people, lol.

Here, is everything he has said, in the entire thread:

CP is dead. All kingdoms are dead. The moment GK was in decline was the day it was released. I can't say anything has gone up. Sure we started at a good level and it took a while to go down, but it did go down, and as long as the same people are running these kingdoms, we won't see any changes.

This is a good example of what I mean by nonsensical. "CP is dead." has no context. It is actually quite active, they just had an event with his own kingdom, forest. Then "All kingdoms are dead." tops even that grand statement, yet is meaningless. What does that statement contribute? That he doesn't like GK? Is Forest dead too? Lets get Chris to answer that, he may be more qualified than Nappa educate us on that. Or, we don't need to bother Chris, as its just another nonsensical comment.
Can we top that? Yep. "The moment GK was in decline was the day it was released." - now that is a big one. He even contradicts it in his next sentance, so what is the point of even making it? He goes on to say that it actually took a while to decline, but that it was steady. I think there was some good times with Charles and Larrien in the early days, and many more good times down the road, but I am sure you can agree that the Astri times were fun. Then he says "as long as the same people are running these kingdoms, we won't see any changes." - which is again, baseless. We have had a lot of leaders change out in GK, yet somehow Nappa thinks all he has to do is make the comment, and it is so.

How is that post, even vaguely relevant? It barely makes sense. Each sentance is geared to sound grand and final and large, but has no thought to content or basis.

I am not going to get involved other then talking about the fish heads in the Dustari thread, but I must say, as long as the same people with the same policies around - They will have the same problems.

That is fine, but if I recall he was warned by admins that he is spamming if he keeps posting the same things over and over. Then he makes the same comments about the leaders, and again he doesn't say anything about how to fix anything, just more grand comments that until the leaders are gone, all of GK will be cursed and doom and gloom will rule the world.

--
I propose that the thread started in the dustari section be continued here due to it was closed for no real reason at all. Here, the Dustari leaders cannot close the thread.

Actually, the Dustari forums are not a place for the fish topic either, you would want to post that in the kingdoms forum. In fact, I believe there is at least a dozen or more threads where this exact topic was debate time after time after time after time and the only reason its is still being debated is that people can't accept when their ideas are not chosen to be used. Can you, Zurk, or anyone...imagine what it would be like if say, I wanted a change done - maybe I want forest to be vikings again - and if I just posted thread after thread after thread about it, declared all the leaders who disagreed with me unfit to rule repeatedly, and hijacked a large number of other threads onto the topic, just because I didn't get my way?

That is not a constructive way to work for anyone, and there is no reason that exceptions should be made for nappa or anyone else.

GZ: Yes, combine Zormite and Dustari. Pirates should be more like an 'official' guild, kill their island too. They can have the island east of Hotaru which isn't used anyway.
nappa: BY GEORGE I THINK YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING! No, seriously. This is the best thing I've heard in this thread. The second best thing below.
protagonist:
And I always thought you never had a brain. Hallelujah hallelujah the lord has come!

PLEASE DO THESE THINGS.

Nappa is entitled to his opinions here, but they are just that and not on the topic. As for combining Zormite and Dustari, I have already stated clearly the differences between the two nations. I don't support killing CP, but thats my opinion.

[busyrobot]

sorry for the double post, I am responding to several posts at once, so its a bit long

Dustari and Zormite are as good as one. We could just cut out the middle man. The only reason this wont happen is one of these little queens will have to give up their throne.

Again, in nappa's opinion he sees Dustari and Zormite 'as good as one' but there is sure no evidence to back that up, and I already pointed out the obvious differences. The rest is a weak insult at the leaders, there is clearly nothing of substance in this post.

The only thing different about Dustari and Zormite is the name. They both go together with every decision. The kingdom leaders are of the same royal family. You and I both know that the only differences are the names.

Getting closer to a post of substance, makes a case even. However, the strength of the alliance of the two nations and the crossing of bloodlines is not a reason to merge to distinct cultures. He fails to take into account the roleplaying differences of the two nations. Dustari is a medieval fantasy knight style of kingdom, Zormite is a Republic. Some call it a monarchy because they are uneducated in the definition of Republic (a topic very heavily documented and covered in the forums, no one should be ignorant on it at this point) or because of the GUI limits, but in that regard it is impossible not to have a monarchy then. The game mechanics are the same for all kingdoms. They do however have a rich roleplaying system of government that makes them rather distinct. In the end, this post of his has nothing substantial either.

Their not completely different, at all. They are both monarchy's, but one just puts the name "republic" after it's name.

Oh and by the way, I am in Forest, fool.

This again, fails to address any of the topics presented to date. It is repetition. It ignores the major differences in the histories and roleplaying styles of the two kingdoms. Another mindless post.

That is where your reasoning is flawed - I never quit Zormite. Zormite was removed forcefully from the server I played on and was changed instantly before my eyes. It's not like "oh they evolved 3 minutes later when it was thrown onto 2k2". I have been pushing fish heads SINCE ZORMITE WAS MOVED. (Oh and look at that, Moved, not CREATED)
...Not really, since I never quit. I am one of the only true Zormite members to the end.

First, Nappa says my reasoning is flawed because he never 'quit' Zormite and considers himself to be the only member. His desire to be a member is meaningless however, we have to deal in facts and the facts are, he has not been a member of Zormite in ages. Zormite has had a huge history that he has not been apart of. Everyone also knows, he has been pushing the fish head issue (much to everyone's dismay). No one in GK, no staff, no leaders, pretty much no players save maybe a small handful, would see that comment as anything other than lunacy. He is bickering over what changed when GK was first started years ago, and Zormite has changed a lot since then. Hardly a 'true' member of Zormite, he can't even recognize what it is anymore.

When do you represent the players ? Did you somehow become the leader of all the united players of this game ? No.. Changing Zormite not only ruins it for the members of Zormite but it removes roleplaying aspect from the game in general, thus hurting MY gameplay. So I as a PLAYER of the game, should have a say, no ?

I do not represent 'the players' nor did I claim to, I am just saying that just anyone who comes running around wanting their way can't just get it and change everything. Note his own words "No.. Changing Zormite not only ruins it for the members of Zormite but it removes roleplaying aspect from the game in general, thus hurting MY gameplay. " where he pretty much sums up my exact argument of why I don't want him to CHANGE zormite. His problem though, is he is failing to account for time and is living in the past, and changing zormite now and making them fish, would hurt everyone's gameplay and remove a roleplaying aspect from the game in general. However, if Zormite did choose to do that, I would not have a problem with it - I would adapt. That is the nature of roleplaying and um, having a community.

To this point has he made a single effective argument? Not once, its a combination, as at the top, totally nonsensical posts with flaming diatribes with no substance.

..I don't need to become a baker to tell you you can't make a cake, and that you should give it more sugar. I don't have to lead your nation to tell you your doing something wrong. As Zurkiba has been SAYING IN EVERY POST HE HAS MADE he has been trying to work with the kingdom leaders.

An almost effective argument, but it breaks down: he can and should be allowed to suggest adding sugar, but to make a mission out of it and speak down to everyone harshly and abusively who prefers to go light on the sugar and demand he gets his way....when he is not even eating the cake..is completely disfunctional. It is also irrelevant that Zurk has said that he has been trying to work with Kingdom leaders, he has also been trying to gut one of the finer kingdoms and has made no bones about it. That is not called working with the leaders.

..We have come up with solutions, but all you have done is argue against them and not come up with your own.

The closest thing that has been 'come up with' solution wise is to combine zormite and dustari (disasterous idea) or add fish heads to zormite (also disasterous). Some comments about changing game mechanics - which I generally support, but its not like those are solutions until they are possible, and they need people like stefan to say they are approved and can be done, before that can be considered a solution.

I have also proposed tons of roleplaying ideas and concepts and solutions, and I clearly have come up with my own. So, that statement is an outright lie.

Wow.. Great defence against my statements.. "I don't care what nappa says". Yipee!

As I made sure it was known, I do not 'not care' about what he says, I find most of his comments nonsensical, and I in this post, documented that quite clearly.

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

He is in no position to make that demand. He has nothing to do with zormite and has not been a zormite for a very long time. He can call himself a zormite but facts show he is not, other than in his own mind. The best evidence of that is the fact he has no idea of what zormite even is like to day nor is he in any way in synch with even one of its current members.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

Again, this is all many years old and not even relevant today. I am not just saying "he is stating opinion" but this last two sentances are obviously only that. They have no substance, no basis. I can agree that the republic is not what zormite was, but it sure is what zormite is today. He cannot change that Zormite has had a long history to date, much of which without him. His desire for that to simply 'not count' amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

That last part was cute, but still meaningless. I can and did respond to everything, and now, even the stuff that wasn't worth responding to. As for his "in your opinion" comments, I am sorry but an opinion is just that. If I say "the ferrys take way too long and need to be changed" that is opinion. If I say "the ferrys take way too long and need to be changed because you can sail back and forth in a ship 8 times before catching a ferry" then there is a fact attached, though in this case, a false one since the ferries are fine. My point is, there is a such thing as an opinion, and if he doesn't want to hear that "his opinion" is not a mandate, then he shouldn't have everything rest on his opinions.

[Zurkiba]

-_-

Why are you so hypocritical?

Zormites cant turn into fishes in a day but they can turn into humans.

Your logic is flawed, they have NOT roleplayed for ages. They sat there and called themselves humans.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

-_-

Why are you so hypocritical?

Zormites cant turn into fishes in a day but they can turn into humans.

Your logic is flawed, they have NOT roleplayed for ages. They sat there and called themselves humans.

They have been RPing, you are are in no position to judge them - you at most pass judgement on them simply because they have deviated from your original ideas of what zormite is. If you base your argument on them not having roleplayed for ages your argument falls apart as they most certianly have been roleplaying. Regardless of any momentary disruptions from when they 'went human' it is insane to try to roll it back now years later, it would disrupt the kingdoms entire roleplaying history to date on GK. Zormite has the final authority on what zormite does. Others can make suggestions, but that is the end of it. You can't reshuffle entire kingdoms entire years down the road, period.

I don't like every little decision that has been made on this server either, but I can definately handle it with a touch of civility when I don't and accept it. That is called of being part of a community.

[GryffonDurime]

The Name Zormite is Hiyru's intelletual property, is it not? So Nappa can make a case for it if Hiryu supports him, just as Dustari's name is...Well, is Asuka's, or Zulithes?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

The Name Zormite is Hiyru's intelletual property, is it not? So Nappa can make a case for it if Hiryu supports him, just as Dustari's name is...Well, is Asuka's, or Zulithes?

Unless zormite was created outside of graal and had prior legal copyrights, any content added, post, or uploaded to GK becomes the intellectual property of Cyberjoueurs. If you create content for GK or another server, for instance, you cannot pull 'your' content later, Cyberjoueurs specifically is protected from that. It is technically against the rules to post content that is already copyrighted by another source that could cause conflicts for Cyberjoueurs, though it is technically possible that it could happen. Because of that, Hiryu has no more right to change or rename Zormite than I have the right to change the Dustari Cathedral or something.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

They have been RPing, you are are in no position to judge them - you at most pass judgement on them simply because they have deviated from your original ideas of what zormite is. If you base your argument on them not having roleplayed for ages your argument falls apart as they most certianly have been roleplaying. Regardless of any momentary disruptions from when they 'went human' it is insane to try to roll it back now years later, it would disrupt the kingdoms entire roleplaying history to date on GK. Zormite has the final authority on what zormite does. Others can make suggestions, but that is the end of it. You can't reshuffle entire kingdoms entire years down the road, period.

I don't like every little decision that has been made on this server either, but I can definately handle it with a touch of civility when I don't and accept it. That is called of being part of a community.

I've always been pushing for the real Zormite Empire...

But you, my friend, keep changing your mind and flipflopping on the issue to gain what YOU want.

The fact is this, Zormite couldn't have turned Human, ergo they are not roleplaying.

If I follow all the laws of my state, and break one, I am still breaking the law.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I've always been pushing for the real Zormite Empire...

But you, my friend, keep changing your mind and flipflopping on the issue to gain what YOU want.

The fact is this, Zormite couldn't have turned Human, ergo they are not roleplaying.

If I follow all the laws of my state, and break one, I am still breaking the law.

The real Zormite Empire is now called the Zormite Republic, and you are pushing to turn it into something it once was, but now isn't. You fail to understand the concept of RPing if you truly believe that the last several years, most of its very lifespan, somehow "don't count" just because you find it disagreeable. I have not flip flopped and its not even about what "I" want, I am not even in Zormite and if they chose to revert to a fish people kingdom, I would welcome that as much as I welcome their wish to remain the way they are.
Prior to launch during I believe, the first moon landing mission, one astronaut said jokingly, (paraphrasing) "They have come up with three possible theories about how the moon was formed. The first theory was proven wrong in the 1800 hundreds, another in the early 1900s. The last theory was proven wrong about a decade ago, which leads to the one remaining conclusion, that the moon must not actually exist."
You say they "can't" be human but they undeniably are. They have been for years. They have roleplayed and been a part of the fabric of GK longer than they were ever in 2k1 (counting of course, until the time GK ended 2k1's activity).
Zormite is human. Zormite roleplays. Those facts have been true for Zormit e for the majority of its existence. If you want to distort those facts, you have to resort to changing what 'Zormite' means to some abstract idea conjured by the original creators that has nothing to do with GK, and thus it fails. You have to change the definition of roleplaying too if you want to bend the second fact. The facts are against you, period. I didn't make them up, its just the way they are. I accept that Nappa had a role in the forming of Zormite originally, as well as that the 2k1 empire were human haters, and fish people. Those are also facts. So is the fact that the switch to humans was probably (I have not researched it) not done in the best RP manner and more because of all the other changes that took place in GK and that the transition as a whole for all kingdoms was a stretch RP wise. It still (if you know anything about RP) doesn't revert or undo the efforts of the last several years. That would totally bastardize the entire history of GK. It would ruin every RP storyline that has occured in GK, from the alliances to the intermarriages to the every diplomatic outcome. If Zormite was not human, the Astri wars would not have turned out as they did. If the Zormites hated humans, almost nothing of the last several years would make sense.

It did make sense though, for one reason: Zormites actually, are human. Its a human kingdom. It has been for the entire history of GK. I don't try to deny the facts of 2k1, don't deny the facts of 2k2. Zormite is human, fact. Zormite roleplays, fact. You you can't accept those facts, you can't have a conversation based in reality.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

The real Zormite Empire is now called the Zormite Republic, and you are pushing to turn it into something it once was, but now isn't. You fail to understand the concept of RPing if you truly believe that the last several years, most of its very lifespan, somehow "don't count" just because you find it disagreeable. I have not flip flopped and its not even about what "I" want, I am not even in Zormite and if they chose to revert to a fish people kingdom, I would welcome that as much as I welcome their wish to remain the way they are.
Prior to launch during I believe, the first moon landing mission, one astronaut said jokingly, (paraphrasing) "They have come up with three possible theories about how the moon was formed. The first theory was proven wrong in the 1800 hundreds, another in the early 1900s. The last theory was proven wrong about a decade ago, which leads to the one remaining conclusion, that the moon must not actually exist."
You say they "can't" be human but they undeniably are. They have been for years. They have roleplayed and been a part of the fabric of GK longer than they were ever in 2k1 (counting of course, until the time GK ended 2k1's activity).
Zormite is human. Zormite roleplays. Those facts have been true for Zormit e for the majority of its existence. If you want to distort those facts, you have to resort to changing what 'Zormite' means to some abstract idea conjured by the original creators that has nothing to do with GK, and thus it fails. You have to change the definition of roleplaying too if you want to bend the second fact. The facts are against you, period. I didn't make them up, its just the way they are. I accept that Nappa had a role in the forming of Zormite originally, as well as that the 2k1 empire were human haters, and fish people. Those are also facts. So is the fact that the switch to humans was probably (I have not researched it) not done in the best RP manner and more because of all the other changes that took place in GK and that the transition as a whole for all kingdoms was a stretch RP wise. It still (if you know anything about RP) doesn't revert or undo the efforts of the last several years. That would totally bastardize the entire history of GK. It would ruin every RP storyline that has occured in GK, from the alliances to the intermarriages to the every diplomatic outcome. If Zormite was not human, the Astri wars would not have turned out as they did. If the Zormites hated humans, almost nothing of the last several years would make sense.

It did make sense though, for one reason: Zormites actually, are human. Its a human kingdom. It has been for the entire history of GK. I don't try to deny the facts of 2k1, don't deny the facts of 2k2. Zormite is human, fact. Zormite roleplays, fact. You you can't accept those facts, you can't have a conversation based in reality.

You do flip flop. We need a roleplaying excuse to turn the Zormites back to fishes but we dont need a reason why they're human? Amazing.

That's the thing, you DO deny 2k1, you even said it in an above post. The fact is this, the Zormite Empire still lives on and they are fish. It's something noone can change because it's not under the corruption of the Zormite leaders. -That- is why the fishes continue.

I'm not denying the facts of Graal Kingdoms. It's not my fault some Dustarians had a fetish with wanting to do fishes. That's what yall have to deal with. The people who are denying history and the obvious facts are the strings of leadership of the "Zormite" island. Do not blame me for that.

If I cant deny that the Zormite's were human for a couple of years then they cant deny that they are fish. It's that simple.

Lets compare two names together
Zormite Empire
Zormite Republic
Now lets see if there is a word that links the two together somehow, oh wait there it is. It's Zormite.

So this is what you do, the current kingdom are fishes, their entire history was that of the fish. Now you say, 'OMGZ THAT CANT WORK'. But the fact is this, according to every roleplaying aspect of the universe, the kingdom was never composed of humans.

Now put this scenario in your mind. Samurai attacks Dustari, Samurai keeps respawning until victory is achieved, Samurai 'roleplays' that they salted the lands and destroyed the castle. They run around screaming 'LAWLZ WE PWNT U!!!111' or something of that sort. So we have Samurai who ignored every roleplaying rule in the world, defeated Dustari who has been following the roleplaying rules. This is what Dustari is going to do, It's going to simply ignore Samurai. Or Dustari will roleplay the results by remaking a story for it. The same goes with the Zormites.

My final remarks
Zormite is a FISH kingdom and no body can change that. It is a fact of life

I'd ask you to stop being so hard headed about the subject and actually listen to reason.

Edit//
As for the, if the members want it. That isn't true. I know from personal reasons. The staff support the "leaders" no matter how stupid they are.

[Nappa]

What he fails to realize that his logic is flawed in that it can work both ways.

If Zormite can't just turn into fish, how come they can just turn into humans ?

[busyrobot]

My logic is sound, you are the ones saying they can turn into fish. Regarding the KJ vs. Dustari issue, that is an inter-kingdom example, and has nothing to do with the internals of a kingdom's structure, that happens to be entirely up to the people that make up that kingdom.
I even said, that it is not the height of RP to have fish turn into humans, you can take that up with unixmad or stefan or zen or whoever setup zormite on GK for the first time. However, it has long since has been human.

You say "but they have always been fish" and I am sorry, but you are wrong, you haven't been playing, you have no idea what Zormite is outside of your head. You are trying to make abstract ideas more real than what is in front of you: the actual face of Zormite, as it has developed and played out over the last several years. Dustarians did not have a fetish for fish....nor would I accept your randomly bastardizing our history over the last several years just so you can implement one idea that hasn't even been used during the lifetime of GK, and is also not wanted by that kingdom's members.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

My logic is sound, you are the ones saying they can turn into fish. Regarding the KJ vs. Dustari issue, that is an inter-kingdom example, and has nothing to do with the internals of a kingdom's structure, that happens to be entirely up to the people that make up that kingdom.
I even said, that it is not the height of RP to have fish turn into humans, you can take that up with unixmad or stefan or zen or whoever setup zormite on GK for the first time. However, it has long since has been human.

You say "but they have always been fish" and I am sorry, but you are wrong, you haven't been playing, you have no idea what Zormite is outside of your head. You are trying to make abstract ideas more real than what is in front of you: the actual face of Zormite, as it has developed and played out over the last several years. Dustarians did not have a fetish for fish....nor would I accept your randomly bastardizing our history over the last several years just so you can implement one idea that hasn't even been used during the lifetime of GK, and is also not wanted by that kingdom's members.

-_-

You're too ignorant and hard headed to argue with. You're a broken record which keeps repeating things after they have been proven wrong.

I'll reply to a post when a good point is actually made.

[Moonite]

Why u guys Getting soPissed off for a game.

[Nappa]

I agree with Zurkiba.. God.. Theirs no point in argueing with someone who won't listen.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

-_-

You're too ignorant and hard headed to argue with. You're a broken record which keeps repeating things after they have been proven wrong.

I'll reply to a post when a good point is actually made.

Zurk, if you keep stating the same flawed reasons over and over, of course I'll sound like a broken record. All you have proven is that you are entrenched in your own views, no matter how out of synch they are.

You have stated you firmly believe Zormite are still fish people, dispite the fact that is not the case. Why do I say its not the case? Because I can back it up: Zormite has roleplayed for years as humans, the entire server knows on 2k2, Zormite is made up of humans. Its like saying the Soviets never collapsed or the south won the civil war, its possible to say it, but only if you ignore all of modern history.

[Nappa]

So you are saying Zormites have no right to change to fish because they have been humans for years, however their change to humans is justified though zormite rped as fish for years ?

What ?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

So you are saying Zormites have no right to change to fish because they have been humans for years, however their change to humans is justified though zormite rped as fish for years ?

What ?

No, ultimately that would be up to them - their choice. I stated that clearly a few times. If they want to become fish, that would be fine by me, I would hope they would have a good RP backstory for it. It would bother me if they rewrote their history, either to say they always were fish, or that they conquered and ruled dustari for a hundred years, since that wasn't played out and goes against the large trends of the history. And yes, you can argue zormite did just that when they 'went human' at the start of the new server, but forcing reversion now would destroy more history than ever existed on 2k1, and is hardly a fitting 'penalty' for something that happened years ago.
Of course, if they did choose to rewrite their history, its up to stefan and unixmad if it would be allowable, not me.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

All you have proven is that you are entrenched in your own views, no matter how out of synch they are.

Wait, let me get this straight.
You say we should suggest ways to improve RPing in this thread.
You say that 2k1 has no relevance to GK.
You see an admittence of your right as an attack.
You somehow keep arguing against three others, but assume you still haven't been proved wrong.
You are the one entrenched in your own views
What happened to you? Before you were a kingdom leader you were teh l33t.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

No, ultimately that would be up to them - their choice. I stated that clearly a few times. If they want to become fish, that would be fine by me, I would hope they would have a good RP backstory for it. It would bother me if they rewrote their history, either to say they always were fish, or that they conquered and ruled dustari for a hundred years, since that wasn't played out and goes against the large trends of the history. And yes, you can argue zormite did just that when they 'went human' at the start of the new server, but forcing reversion now would destroy more history than ever existed on 2k1, and is hardly a fitting 'penalty' for something that happened years ago.
Of course, if they did choose to rewrite their history, its up to stefan and unixmad if it would be allowable, not me.

How the hell are you going to tell me this ? Their was more rp in one week on 2k1 then their has been on the entire history of GK. Your thinking G2k1 was just a miniscule event but it wasn't. It is the entire history of these kingdoms, and to just ignore their history like it never existed is just plain stupid.

[Zurkiba]

And here is the thing. Lets see there are WOW THREE ENTIRE HUMAN KINGDOMS. OMG! THAT MEANS WE NEED ANOTHER LAWLZ.

If a person wants to rolplay as a Human he can be a Samurai, Knight, or even a Pirate. Hell, if that person wanted to roleplay in an ancient sense he could join Forest.

But no, we have to ruin one of the most sacred of all of Graal's traditions with crappy excuses to retain power.

But here is the thing, they did rewrite their history. Personally that's bull****. I guess if America turns into a Communist state then we can just rewrite American history to have Comrade Washington destroy the bastard British because of the capitalist taxes. But no, that's now how it happened.

I can perfectly understand if they name their kingdom into something else. That's fine, here is where the problem lies. They call themselves Zormites when they're not. No roleplaying story in the galaxy can mask why they carry the name Zormite. No roleplaying story in the galaxy can explain how they turned into humans in a single day.

So this is how Zormite solves it's problems
Dictatress Aki whatever (Archist Republic)
OH MY DEAR LORD, ZURKIBA IS A GENIUS BECAUSE HE JUST FIGURED OUT HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

But NO, that wont happen. Because the people are too damn ignorance, arrogant, and hardheaded.

So this is what you do, rename the adjective before the Republic right. Then you can be all 100% human for all I care. It'll be easier to roleplay that way.

We cant erase history, yes this is true. But the thing is that the history you reffer to never happened. It would be the same as if I said last year I conquered the world. People can play along with it, but did I conquer the world? no

[Evil_Trunks]

I have always thought this was a great quote, taken from Ziro's signature, of course.

<taken off AIM, Ryan W referring to Zormite on GK after I told him why they're not a fish-like race anymore>
Freak0102: That's like the new Governor of CP saying "I don't really like pirates since GK doesn't have eye patches and stuff, so let's be guys who think pirates are cool instead"

Edit: Darn! I'm way too late. Posted on page 4.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

We cant erase history, yes this is true. But the thing is that the history you reffer to never happened. It would be the same as if I said last year I conquered the world. People can play along with it, but did I conquer the world? no

The history I refer to is the history of the zormite republic, and it did happen as has been etched in the ones and zeros of the graal universe for quite some time. You can't say it "didn't happen" in some abstract sense, when in a literal sense, it did.

No matter how 'wrong' it was or how much you blame stefan/unixmad/whoever for turning zormite into humans 'in a day' it happened, literally ages ago. The point of an RP server is for everyone to have fun RPing in the best way the server allows, not enshrine a make believe race. So you and Nappa consider yourselves the parents of Zormite, and it grew up and left home and didn't turn out the way you wanted - but that's life, you don't get to kill the kid if he doesn't want to change his first name.

Originally Posted by Nappa

How the hell are you going to tell me this ? Their was more rp in one week on 2k1 then their has been on the entire history of GK. Your thinking G2k1 was just a miniscule event but it wasn't. It is the entire history of these kingdoms, and to just ignore their history like it never existed is just plain stupid.

Check the dates, 2k2 has been active way longer than 2k1. You are back to making dumb engrandizing statements agian, there was not more rping in one week of 2k1 than in the history of GK. But heck, you would have us believe that the entire history of GK is 'invalid' because Zormite didn't turn out the way you wanted.
I am speaking in 'literal time' not 'make believe' time where you can dismiss the entire 2k2 server's entire history because zormite wasn't 'perfect' enough for you in its implementation there.

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Wait, let me get this straight.
You say we should suggest ways to improve RPing in this thread.
You say that 2k1 has no relevance to GK.
You see an admittence of your right as an attack.
You somehow keep arguing against three others, but assume you still haven't been proved wrong.
You are the one entrenched in your own views
What happened to you? Before you were a kingdom leader you were teh l33t.

Yes
No
Huh? What does that supposed to mean?
They are wrong, and if you want to 'prove' I am wrong you need to use facts and logic. I still say, since A) fun is #1 priority of a game (with RPing a close second) and B) you can have fun and RP in the present C) you can't RP in the past D) if you are going to 'break' the RP history, the present is more important than the past, as in how to best serve A, given the facts of B and C. Add to that, the issue of who has the right to mess up another kingdom unilaterally...and I think my logic is pretty clear.
I have strong convictions, but they are very open to refinement. All I require is sound logic.
I changed? ;_; lol, I am the same

[Brad]

Well, now I'm getting pissed.


Padren, you weren't around for 2k1 and have absolutely no right to badmouth it or even compare it to the hellhole known as GK. To be quite honest with you if the 2k1 leaders were placed as leaders on GK I believe roleplaying could happen. Now, *****s run kingdoms, inactive leaders run kingdoms, or as in forest's case noone runs it. I am not going to sit around here and let you talk **** on the greatest server in graal history. How about you convince Zoe to give her spot to Zurk, Nay to give her spot to someone jesus anyone, get GP back for pirates. For god's sake I dont even know who runs those group of *****s. I am getting pissed GK is a pisstent and it cant call itself an rp server anymore.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

The history I refer to is the history of the zormite republic, and it did happen as has been etched in the ones and zeros of the graal universe for quite some time. You can't say it "didn't happen" in some abstract sense, when in a literal sense, it did.

No matter how 'wrong' it was or how much you blame stefan/unixmad/whoever for turning zormite into humans 'in a day' it happened, literally ages ago. The point of an RP server is for everyone to have fun RPing in the best way the server allows, not enshrine a make believe race. So you and Nappa consider yourselves the parents of Zormite, and it grew up and left home and didn't turn out the way you wanted - but that's life, you don't get to kill the kid if he doesn't want to change his first name.




Check the dates, 2k2 has been active way longer than 2k1. You are back to making dumb engrandizing statements agian, there was not more rping in one week of 2k1 than in the history of GK. But heck, you would have us believe that the entire history of GK is 'invalid' because Zormite didn't turn out the way you wanted.
I am speaking in 'literal time' not 'make believe' time where you can dismiss the entire 2k2 server's entire history because zormite wasn't 'perfect' enough for you in its implementation there.


Yes
No
Huh? What does that supposed to mean?
They are wrong, and if you want to 'prove' I am wrong you need to use facts and logic. I still say, since A) fun is #1 priority of a game (with RPing a close second) and B) you can have fun and RP in the present C) you can't RP in the past D) if you are going to 'break' the RP history, the present is more important than the past, as in how to best serve A, given the facts of B and C. Add to that, the issue of who has the right to mess up another kingdom unilaterally...and I think my logic is pretty clear.
I have strong convictions, but they are very open to refinement. All I require is sound logic.
I changed? ;_; lol, I am the same

And I have a sword on my dresser, and now I say that I conquered the world. I have taken measures that what I said has been backed up.

Sorry, you're wrong. The point of a roleplaying server is to roleplay. If they want to have random PKing fun they can go play Unholy Nation.

Yeah ok, so myself and Nappa are the parents of Zormite, and lets just give Zormite a race... lets just say Chinese not to offend anyone. So Myself and Nappa have this Chinese Kid. If that Chinese kid turns black then something is wrong.

Nappa is making dumb arguements? You're the one who disregarded Nappa's statements because 'He posts useless stuff in other threads which means he is unable to make a collective thought now or ever'.

We have already proven you wrong, but your damn ignorance tells you otherwise.

[Nappa]

Their is nothing more I can add, because we've already proven Padren to be a fool so many times. I'd just like to say give up already. God.

[busyrobot]

First of all Brad, I never said anything bad about 2k1. If I recall, GP was asked to come back and didn't want to, Zurk has even said he doesn't want to lead a kingdom, which is for the best, he isn't really up on modern GK history.

Second, Zurk, if the kid turns out black, the kid turns out black, you don't kill the kid and try again x.X

You'll notice I said, 'roleplaying' is a close second on the list of priorities, only after having fun. Don't play straw man games with me as if I suggested GK should be a PK server.
Anytime Nappa has actually made a point I have responded to it with reasoned arguments. If he is capable of debating them then he should.

It can be summed up very simply:

Zormite: Fish heads vs Humans

NPC Code:

---

  Fishhead pros:                          |   Human cons:

1) consistent with old 2k1 history        | inconsitent with old 2k1 history

2) increased diversity                    | less diversity

 

Fishhead cons:                                 Human pros:

1) inconsistent with all 2k2 history      | consistent with all GK RP history

2) restrictive and limiting               | offers more options

3) people of Zormite don't want it        | people of Zormite want it

4) distruptive - forces a 'fake' history  | GK can continue to operate and grow

---

Pros: An element of 2k1 history is revived, and it increases diversity among the kingdoms.
Cons: It restricts zormite, reducing their flexibility. It is also not wanted by zormite, and if a kingdom is active and RPs, huge changes should not be forced on it for any reason. It is also at the expense of the current 2k2 setting - no matter how you cut it, you can't keep 2k2's history and make such a radical change that cuts to the very first days of GK.

If all you want GK to be, is a shrine dedicated to 2k1, it makes sense, but if you want an RP server, you can't just make changes like that. A handful of people who barely even play GK can say 'its always been fish' reality clearly differs, everyone who plays GK *knows* Zormite is human and has been for its entire history of GK.
Its a matter of priorities. For some reason, being 'a little more like 2k1' is more important to some people than all of GK's history. Brad and Nappa sure made their feelings clear on that topic. But if people actually want to make GK better you need to improve it from this point forward - not backward. You don't need 'fish people' in Zormite to RP, and they have been doing fine without it.

Your positions are correct for your priorities, but your priorities are out of synch of GK players, and the entire server as a whole. You can badmouth GK if you want, but it is the current dominate RP server, and while it needs work nothing is getting done by us bickering. Add to kingdoms going forward, but don't erase what it is in a vain attempt to recapture some part of the past.


If you can't debate, then there is really no point to this discussion. You are more interested in thinking you are right than listening to reason. I think though, it really boils down to priorities, and I think yours are out of synch with what is healthy for GK, as well as out of synch with the roleplaying players of GK as well.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

First of all Brad, I never said anything bad about 2k1. If I recall, GP was asked to come back and didn't want to, Zurk has even said he doesn't want to lead a kingdom, which is for the best, he isn't really up on modern GK history.

Second, Zurk, if the kid turns out black, the kid turns out black, you don't kill the kid and try again x.X

You'll notice I said, 'roleplaying' is a close second on the list of priorities, only after having fun. Don't play straw man games with me as if I suggested GK should be a PK server.
Anytime Nappa has actually made a point I have responded to it with reasoned arguments. If he is capable of debating them then he should.

It can be summed up very simply:

Zormite: Fish heads vs Humans

NPC Code:

---

  Fishhead pros:                          |   Human cons:

1) consistent with old 2k1 history        | inconsitent with old 2k1 history

2) increased diversity                    | less diversity

 

Fishhead cons:                                 Human pros:

1) inconsistent with all 2k2 history      | consistent with all GK RP history

2) restrictive and limiting               | offers more options

3) people of Zormite don't want it        | people of Zormite want it

4) distruptive - forces a 'fake' history  | GK can continue to operate and grow

---

Pros: An element of 2k1 history is revived, and it increases diversity among the kingdoms.
Cons: It restricts zormite, reducing their flexibility. It is also not wanted by zormite, and if a kingdom is active and RPs, huge changes should not be forced on it for any reason. It is also at the expense of the current 2k2 setting - no matter how you cut it, you can't keep 2k2's history and make such a radical change that cuts to the very first days of GK.

If all you want GK to be, is a shrine dedicated to 2k1, it makes sense, but if you want an RP server, you can't just make changes like that. A handful of people who barely even play GK can say 'its always been fish' reality clearly differs, everyone who plays GK *knows* Zormite is human and has been for its entire history of GK.
Its a matter of priorities. For some reason, being 'a little more like 2k1' is more important to some people than all of GK's history. Brad and Nappa sure made their feelings clear on that topic. But if people actually want to make GK better you need to improve it from this point forward - not backward. You don't need 'fish people' in Zormite to RP, and they have been doing fine without it.

Your positions are correct for your priorities, but your priorities are out of synch of GK players, and the entire server as a whole. You can badmouth GK if you want, but it is the current dominate RP server, and while it needs work nothing is getting done by us bickering. Add to kingdoms going forward, but don't erase what it is in a vain attempt to recapture some part of the past.


If you can't debate, then there is really no point to this discussion. You are more interested in thinking you are right than listening to reason. I think though, it really boils down to priorities, and I think yours are out of synch with what is healthy for GK, as well as out of synch with the roleplaying players of GK as well.

If Graal Kingdoms was meant to just be 'fun' then it would be called Graal FUNSERVERLAWLZ. But It's not. Graal Kingdoms was made for one purpose, roleplaying.

I've redone your little "chart"
ZORMITE pros:
Consistent with 2k1 History
Increased diversity
Awesome roleplaying experience
Kingdom uniqueness
Relation to the past
Goes along with the official storyline.

ZORMITE cons:
You're not human (if you consider this a con)

---

You have ignored everything I've said, everything anyone else had said, and continue to go against what we've said to prove us wrong when you have already been proven wrong. Examples? If they can ignore 2k1 history then I can ignore their 'history'.

Recapture the past? Hardly. If I take Shakesphere and change all the names of the male protagonists to Zurkiba then that's just fine and dandy right? Well it's not. And if I did that then people would be pissed off at me.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If Graal Kingdoms was meant to just be 'fun' then it would be called Graal FUNSERVERLAWLZ. But It's not. Graal Kingdoms was made for one purpose, roleplaying.

Roleplaying was made for one purpose - having fun.

Stop acting like I am against RPing in some way, I again state, I never once suggested sacrificing RPing for fun. Simply, that RPing needs to be fun or there is no point to an RP server.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I've redone your little "chart"
ZORMITE pros:
Consistent with 2k1 History
Increased diversity
Awesome roleplaying experience
Kingdom uniqueness
Relation to the past
Goes along with the official storyline.

ZORMITE cons:
You're not human (if you consider this a con)

Pros 1 and 5 are the same, but you forget that to tie to the distant past, you have to break the connection to the recent past, which is of more Relavent to GK.
It would be nice to stick to the 'official storyline' but the entire history of Gk has not, and when it comes down to supporting the original story vs. having the GK server's last several years of history make sense, I strongly feel the second is far more important.

Also, as for 'Awesome roleplaying experience' if you implement the old style of zormite you limit their range dramatically. If they are human haters, they can't interact with other kingdoms at all other than in conflicts, which can't work on the server now anyway.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

---

You have ignored everything I've said, everything anyone else had said, and continue to go against what we've said to prove us wrong when you have already been proven wrong. Examples? If they can ignore 2k1 history then I can ignore their 'history'.

I have pointed out how that logic is wrong more than once Zurk. The question is not if they can just up and choose to ignore a major part of history, but do they have the right to continue their current history, given that several years ago, when GK was first created, zormite broke from 2k1 history.
If as of yesterday, Zormite followed a 2k1 style storyline, and wanted to change their history to say they were always human, I would probably be on your side. However, that change occured a long long time ago - at the very start of GK. You have to break all history between then and now, in order to revert to a fish based zormite. It becomes an issue of what is more relevant, the way things were many, many years ago or the way things are now. I strongly argue, we should build on GK, and not just wipe it away over a characteristic that ceased to exist many years ago.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Recapture the past? Hardly. If I take Shakesphere and change all the names of the male protagonists to Zurkiba then that's just fine and dandy right? Well it's not. And if I did that then people would be pissed off at me.

That is a bad example, you are talking about changing a widely printed series of works. You can do it to your own copies for sure, as copyright laws for works as old as Shakespeare place them effectively in the public domain.

On the flip side, if you found an old manuscript, that offered an alternate ending to romeo and juliet that he had written, you could not 'demand' everyone discard the normal version of that play.

Now........the fact you chose to wipe the list of cons about changing zormite to fish people, gives me the impression you just don't care about those impacts. You don't care about the negative impact on 2k2 history, or that the people of zormite don't want changed, or how much it would disrupt the 2k2 server to wipe a long standing kingdom and replace it with some other version.
Granted, you can have your own priorities for sure, but if they don't reflect what other people want, you should not expect others to readily adopt your ideas, or agree with your views.

When you say you have said what 'everyone else has said' remember that the majority of GK is not interested in enacting your ideas for Zormite, and the members of Zormite surely are not interested at all.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Roleplaying was made for one purpose - having fun.

Roleplaying wasn't 'made'... And I doubt that the origins were solely 'made' for fun.