Miscellaneous Kingdom Discussion

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Still, I ask if you can give me one example of a way a human player can be recruited by zormite and forced into fishness that has some RPish sense about it.

It's the same on how people can just magically forge an age. Characters are made. Each time I recruited for Zormite a new character was formed with a new name and personality.

So since I answered your question. Why dont you give me some logical explainations. How would the Zormites magically become Human? Why they would keep the name. And why they would generate a completely new culture?

If there was a merge of kingdoms, why isn't Zormite a melting pot of them all? If Humans took over the island why hasn't the castle on 2k1 reconquered the island?

How come the Zormites are allies with Dustari? Zormite has always hated Dustari, always warred against it. Why is it different on 2k2? How come the Zormites aren't friends with Samurai? After all the Zormites and Samurai colonized the new world at the same time, both together (the Samurai were but a vassal of the Zormite Empire)

As for the other points, Nappa has answered them just fine, I will not repeat what he has said.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

It's the same on how people can just magically forge an age. Characters are made. Each time I recruited for Zormite a new character was formed with a new name and personality.

That is a rather bad idea - people don't like to just drop a character they have developed most of the time. Please try to find a working solution.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

So since I answered your question. Why dont you give me some logical explainations. How would the Zormites magically become Human? Why they would keep the name. And why they would generate a completely new culture?

I already stated that...its easy. Just try this: Zormite race settles civilization, they are zenophobic at first, but adjust over time, humans come to the land as traders, end up making up a large portion of the civiliation, and due to factors that don't affect the humans, the zormites steadily die off. The culture stays largely the same, until of course the republic was born, but Zen has documented that enough and I don't need to rehash it.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If there was a merge of kingdoms, why isn't Zormite a melting pot of them all? If Humans took over the island why hasn't the castle on 2k1 reconquered the island?

Zormite is a melting pot of humans that over time integrated into Zormite culture. They were at peace with each other and there would be no reason for 2k1 zormites to attack. Besides, 2k1 is totally dead/inactive...so maybe a plague or something swept that whole land, or maybe a moon of bomies fell on it.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

How come the Zormites are allies with Dustari? Zormite has always hated Dustari, always warred against it. Why is it different on 2k2? How come the Zormites aren't friends with Samurai? After all the Zormites and Samurai colonized the new world at the same time, both together (the Samurai were but a vassal of the Zormite Empire)

First, if Samurai was a vassal of the Zormites, there is the answer to your question: as you learned first hand, you can't make other nations vassals and expect them not to try and take you down first chance they get. During most of the time after you left GK, Samurai was pretty much considered a barbarian horde, a waste land without culture. It was the easiest way to explain the total lack of government or discipline.
Dustari and Zormite forged its alliance most strongly during the time that you yourself were attacking us both. Nothing like a common enemy to make good allies. You were a larger threat to either nation than either of us could be to each other. But I believe, under Charles' reign, we actually had some good relations with Zormite. But think for a moment - why are we allies with half the nations in the world today in real life? We were at war with Spain, with Germany, with Japan, with the British. You can hardly say that it is some sort of stretch for Zormite and Dustari to be allies. You yourself fault Samurai for breaking its alliance with you - when you forced that alliance on them...by means of war. You are really grasping at straws here, its insane to say that any two nations in GK can not ally no matter how many years pass. It has no room for the RP developments that have occured over that time.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

As for the other points, Nappa has answered them just fine, I will not repeat what he has said.

Can you quote them? I rarely see any relevance in any of his posts, they tend to be kind of nonsensical. If you want me to address something print it.

So, 1) please come up with a better way than forcing a player to drop their entire character when joining 'your' version of zormite and coming up with a whole new personality.
2) Reread my points regarding the 'band analogy' and tell me how you can still consider nappa having any say in the direction of zormite.
3) Reread the very old posts where this issue was long ago settled, and when you are done, try to come back and be helpful and aid RPing in GK instead of hindering it.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

That is a rather bad idea - people don't like to just drop a character they have developed most of the time. Please try to find a working solution.

Apparently people do drop their "characters" (if you want to call random PKing and running around screaming 'ne1 gotz 1?' a character) to join a Kingdom. Eventually if they want they will join an established family.

So just how did the Sagesun family grow? You want to know how the Warhare Family grew? The wife became pregant, her bomy took her to places.

How does a person join Forest? They're not human, they're elf!

How did Zurkiba become a member of Dustari? His parents were soldiers in the Dustarian army, both died in the Dustari-Zormite war, Axel goes running off in fear and confusion about his parents. Zurkiba searches for him (and various trainings in the sciences and spending time with a retired Warrior) to later return as an adult with Axel.

If I were to join Zormite and they were fishes, this is what my story would be:
I came over from the Castle on the old lands.

Amazing, see how complex and difficult that was?

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I already stated that...its easy. Just try this: Zormite race settles civilization, they are zenophobic at first, but adjust over time, humans come to the land as traders, end up making up a large portion of the civiliation, and due to factors that don't affect the humans, the zormites steadily die off. The culture stays largely the same, until of course the republic was born, but Zen has documented that enough and I don't need to rehash it.

I asked for a logical answer...

Why wouldn't it be the 2k1 culture?.. and more importantly, why would they be assimiliated into the Zormite culture? We're not talking hundreds and hundreds of years here. It would be similiar to the Jewish community being assimiliated by American culture, it just doesn't work.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Zormite is a melting pot of humans that over time integrated into Zormite culture. They were at peace with each other and there would be no reason for 2k1 zormites to attack. Besides, 2k1 is totally dead/inactive...so maybe a plague or something swept that whole land, or maybe a moon of bomies fell on it.

Yet again, this wasn't hundreds of years.

We have all of the survivors of the metorite crash on the old lands settling in the new lands. This rules out billions of years of evolution and what not. The Zormites were declared a human state within the second week or so of Graal Kingdoms.

You do not know the story of 2k1 then. Just because a book is never read does not mean there is no story. In a roleplaying sense, 2k1 is very much alive. The nations are rebuilding after being scattered. The only nation that does -not- have to rebuild are the Zormites. The Zormites were the only kingdom which stayed, which left few reminants of the other kingdoms to merge and rebuild. Nation of Bellasera, Dustari and Pirates worked together. Malenth, Dustari and Samurai worked together (Dustari being dominate).

The Zormites only suffered a small food issue in their shelters at home and the two Emperors died. The Council of Elders would've selected a new Emperor and the Zormites would've grown stronger then ever without human competition.

So since you get to make up oddball roleplaying excuses
*launches the magical nuclear missile at Zormite and all the humans die expect the Zormite fishes*
Yey for me! The Fish reign supreme now!

Originally Posted by busyrobot

First, if Samurai was a vassal of the Zormites, there is the answer to your question: as you learned first hand, you can't make other nations vassals and expect them not to try and take you down first chance they get. During most of the time after you left GK, Samurai was pretty much considered a barbarian horde, a waste land without culture. It was the easiest way to explain the total lack of government or discipline.
Dustari and Zormite forged its alliance most strongly during the time that you yourself were attacking us both. Nothing like a common enemy to make good allies. You were a larger threat to either nation than either of us could be to each other. But I believe, under Charles' reign, we actually had some good relations with Zormite. But think for a moment - why are we allies with half the nations in the world today in real life? We were at war with Spain, with Germany, with Japan, with the British. You can hardly say that it is some sort of stretch for Zormite and Dustari to be allies. You yourself fault Samurai for breaking its alliance with you - when you forced that alliance on them...by means of war. You are really grasping at straws here, its insane to say that any two nations in GK can not ally no matter how many years pass. It has no room for the RP developments that have occured over that time.

If you would recall history, you would discover that my diplomatic skills broke up the Dustari-Zormite alliance. Why is it that when we invaded the Zormite island no Dustarians showed up? Why is it that when we invaded the Dustari island no Zormites showed up?

I was able to break each kingdom apart, and leave it the only grape on the vine. Then I plucked that grape. That was the genius of Astri.

Dustari and Zormite allied themselves dude to prior diplomacy. You dont understand that the Zormite Empire was a vassal under Dustari for like a year. Zyko revolted but he later died.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Can you quote them? I rarely see any relevance in any of his posts, they tend to be kind of nonsensical. If you want me to address something print it.

Then you are blind.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

So, 1) please come up with a better way than forcing a player to drop their entire character when joining 'your' version of zormite and coming up with a whole new personality.

Answered

Originally Posted by busyrobot

2) Reread my points regarding the 'band analogy' and tell me how you can still consider nappa having any say in the direction of zormite.

With your own logic you believe that Ghost Pirate shouldn't have any say in the Cresent Pirates, yes? You can not sit there and tell me if Ghost Pirate were to return that he would have -no- say in what happens in the Pirate Kingdom. That man created the kingdom, and that man stayed with the kingdom for years.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

3) Reread the very old posts where this issue was long ago settled, and when you are done, try to come back and be helpful and aid RPing in GK instead of hindering it.

The issue was not settled, that is why there are still "Zormites" running around as Dustarian Jrs.

[Evil_Lord_Sparda]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If you would recall history, you would discover that my diplomatic skills broke up the Dustari-Zormite alliance. Why is it that when we invaded the Zormite island no Dustarians showed up? Why is it that when we invaded the Dustari island no Zormites showed up?

I can't speak for the later battles, because as a European they took place too late for myself, but earlier on myself and a few other Dustarians came to the aid of some Zormite's who were being besieged by some Astri led by Excalibur.

Then, when news reached Dustarians that you were indeed planning an attack on Zormite, those Online decided to mount a Pre-emptive strike against you. However, you wouldn't accept this and Larrien wouldn't let it go ahead anyway.

Obviously these were but small skirmishes, but it does show that Dustarians were willing to help the Zormites.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Evil_Lord_Sparda

I can't speak for the later battles, because as a European they took place too late for myself, but earlier on myself and a few other Dustarians came to the aid of some Zormite's who were being besieged by some Astri led by Excalibur.

Then, when news reached Dustarians that you were indeed planning an attack on Zormite, those Online decided to mount a Pre-emptive strike against you. However, you wouldn't accept this and Larrien wouldn't let it go ahead anyway.

Obviously these were but small skirmishes, but it does show that Dustarians were willing to help the Zormites.

I tried to get the battles around 12pm EST So that everyone could enjoy them.

At the time Aftershock was King, at the time there was a Duke by the name of Bitty. He personally held back the Dustarian troops from assisting the Zormites.

Astri invaded Dustari around the time that Aftershock stepped down and Larrien came to power. I had known Larrien for some while as the Royal Scribe Larrien Harris, he never had a lot of leadership experience. We took advantage of that and it proved to have worked (man I would rule as a General). Then it's a little known fact, but Dustari was a major ally of Astri. Dustari actually sent troops to Astri's aid.

The only battles that counted were the single sweeping battles. When entire armies were destroyed.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Apparently people do drop their "characters" (if you want to call random PKing and running around screaming 'ne1 gotz 1?' a character) to join a Kingdom. Eventually if they want they will join an established family.

Its called going off tag, and being out of character, something you did yourself. You are trolling if you want to pretend you are not familiar with it.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

So just how did the Sagesun family grow? You want to know how the Warhare Family grew? The wife became pregant, her bomy took her to places.

Marriage, adoption, children, new characters. In fact, Ana started out playing a rather young child RP wise for a good while.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

How does a person join Forest? They're not human, they're elf!

Tell someone "Hey, you can start a new character as a cool elf" and they'll be interested. Tell someone "Hey, join zormite and have people like zurk make fish jokes constantly at your expense, reek of the smell of fish constantly, and be forced to wear the ugliest fish head you can imagine" and people will, I would say, pass. In other words: It could kill zormite.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

How did Zurkiba become a member of Dustari? His parents were soldiers in the Dustarian army, both died in the Dustari-Zormite war, Axel goes running off in fear and confusion about his parents. Zurkiba searches for him (and various trainings in the sciences and spending time with a retired Warrior) to later return as an adult with Axel.

Good for you. I became a member after I enlisted as a soldier, having little success as a blacksmith and merchant guardsmen on main. Ana was born there, Zoe and her sister were immigrants. Out of curiousity who asked how Zurkiba became a member of Dustari?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If I were to join Zormite and they were fishes, this is what my story would be:
I came over from the Castle on the old lands.

Amazing, see how complex and difficult that was?

Except that Zormite isn't a race of fish people anymore. It is simply very unappealing to be a smelly ugly fish who's sole purpose appears to be a butt for your every fish fry joke.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I asked for a logical answer...

twas why I gave one.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Why wouldn't it be the 2k1 culture?.. and more importantly, why would they be assimiliated into the Zormite culture? We're not talking hundreds and hundreds of years here. It would be similiar to the Jewish community being assimiliated by American culture, it just doesn't work.

Depends on the percentages of course, it is a logical transition. You could of course be constructive, and if you don't like it, try to find a better means by which 2k2 zormite is a human kingdom, with its current culture. Then you can propose that to zormite, and if they happen to like it, perhaps they'd adopt it.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Yet again, this wasn't hundreds of years.

We have all of the survivors of the metorite crash on the old lands settling in the new lands. This rules out billions of years of evolution and what not. The Zormites were declared a human state within the second week or so of Graal Kingdoms.

Time in RPGs is of course, rather hard to play out. You can say that the Astri existed for far less than a year, that all of the history between 2k1 and now is no longer than 4 years total. That would of course, mess up the age of anyone who has played a character that has aged...more than 4 years since 2k1. Darwinian evolution never factored, of course...where did you get that idea?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

You do not know the story of 2k1 then. Just because a book is never read does not mean there is no story. In a roleplaying sense, 2k1 is very much alive. The nations are rebuilding after being scattered. The only nation that does -not- have to rebuild are the Zormites. The Zormites were the only kingdom which stayed, which left few reminants of the other kingdoms to merge and rebuild. Nation of Bellasera, Dustari and Pirates worked together. Malenth, Dustari and Samurai worked together (Dustari being dominate).

The Zormites only suffered a small food issue in their shelters at home and the two Emperors died. The Council of Elders would've selected a new Emperor and the Zormites would've grown stronger then ever without human competition.

So since you get to make up oddball roleplaying excuses
*launches the magical nuclear missile at Zormite and all the humans die expect the Zormite fishes*
Yey for me! The Fish reign supreme now!

2k1 is dead, it has no players. It is history. And a disease or plague that effects the original zormites (they would have a different physiology than humans of course) is hardly odd ball.
Whether you like it or not, Zormite is not a race of fish people on GK. It never will be unless people IN Zormite choose to change their minds.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If you would recall history, you would discover that my diplomatic skills broke up the Dustari-Zormite alliance. Why is it that when we invaded the Zormite island no Dustarians showed up? Why is it that when we invaded the Dustari island no Zormites showed up?

I was able to break each kingdom apart, and leave it the only grape on the vine. Then I plucked that grape. That was the genius of Astri.

LOL that was not diplomacy, that was the fact you had defeated us in battle and we could not overtly support Zormite, under orders from Larrien, out of fear of retribution. Larrien was clear if we wanted to support Zormites, we could not do so in a fashion that would come to your attention.

Btw, replace grape with apple, vine with branch, Zormite with the USA, and you have the 'genius' of the famous Soviet propaganda flyers.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Dustari and Zormite allied themselves dude to prior diplomacy. You dont understand that the Zormite Empire was a vassal under Dustari for like a year. Zyko revolted but he later died.

You were the one that said they were constantly at war and had no reason for being allied.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Then you are blind.

So far nappa has said things like "No, Zormite and Dustari are basically the same" without actually giving any reasons for it, and still hasn't tried to. If he can't explain the basis of his statement, based on logic that wouldn't pass the exact same way by replacing variables (ie, the logic would have to work for Zormite and Dustari, but not for Dustari and Forest or Dustari and Samurai, etc) then its just his opinion without any backup. His other statements are pretty much the exact same statements he has said before in previous threads that were debated ad nausem, till they were dead. That leaves the other things he often says, which amount to insults, comments about zormite having its nose stuck up dustari's ass and things to that effect, which are plain old troll-bait and pointless crude insults.

I welcome any of nappa's comments that contribute, they are just far and few between.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

With your own logic you believe that Ghost Pirate shouldn't have any say in the Cresent Pirates, yes? You can not sit there and tell me if Ghost Pirate were to return that he would have -no- say in what happens in the Pirate Kingdom. That man created the kingdom, and that man stayed with the kingdom for years.

The issue was not settled, that is why there are still "Zormites" running around as Dustarian Jrs.

Ghost Pirate can have a say, but if CP doesn't want to do things his way, sorry, but GP hasn't been playing or even a member of CP in ages. If CP welcomed him back, that is fine. Take a lesson from reality: You start a corporation, it does great, you bring it to new grand heights, you resign, you move on to other things. If years later you want to be involved again in the direction of the company, you need the approval of its board of directors, and possibly a shareholder's vote.

That's life, thats fair, and without some prior contract, its the only way things can work.