4 Years of being stagnant

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

Just put the previous HD back until there is a better one developed than the one that Thor made atleast. So we can go back to enjoying CTF and PK/Spars in the mean time until something better comes along. Yes, I know it wouldn't solve all of Classic's problems but it would atleast be tolerable...

For the Europeans, yes.

Anyways, why don't they just script a HD geared towards the default HD with the movement as well? I'm not sure how much that process would be strayed from the amount of time it took to convert to Clientside HD.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Anyways, why don't they just script a HD geared towards the default HD with the movement as well? I'm not sure how much that process would be strayed from the amount of time it took to convert to Clientside HD.

Do you not think that the current hit detection was intended to be like that?

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

People like to feel that the game they are playing is responsive. Clientside HD provides just that -- when you see a player and you hit them, they are hurt. It responds(though this reflects the script itself).

Serverside HD is quite the opposite. Instead you must hit where the server knows the player is instead of where you see. That is counter-intuitive to what a game should be trying to accomplish. Responsiveness is very important to good controls and presentation.

With our serverside hit detection you seen players when you hit them, and they seen you hit them in return. The player did not require to be walking towards you in order for them to get hit, which they do in default hit detection unless your pings, region and UDP are matched well. Lag did not provide an unfair advantage and it couldn't be as abused as it is with clientside hit detection. There was the odd duff hit, but it was never a case of hitting where the server seen the player in order to get a hit, which would be just as bad as hitting invisible laggers on any clientside hit detection anyway.

In this regard, I don't see how clientside hit detection provides good responsiveness or presentation when compared to serverside at all.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Lag did not provide an unfair advantage and it couldn't be as abused as it is with clientside hit detection.

All systems can be abused. It's still perfectly possible for someone to throttle their connection to where they're moving erratically, even if it's not substantial. This would affect serverside hit detection. It's still a potential advantage, and abuse.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

All systems can be abused. It's still perfectly possible for someone to throttle their connection to where they're moving erratically, even if it's not substantial. It's still a potential advantage, and abuse.

In sparring and in PKing this did not provide an advantage. In events such as CTF this was dealt with by the Game Coordinators.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Rufus

In this regard, I don't see how clientside hit detection provides good responsiveness or presentation when compared to serverside at all.

Because clientside is well... clientside. It's all calculated on what is going on on your side, so if I hit where I SEE you, I actually hit you. This does not happen with serverside if there is lag because there is a delay between what's going on on your side, and what's going on on the server, then there's the delay between me and the server as well. Many times in my experience with the serverside HD on Classic I had to predict my opponents moves and hit ahead rather than being able to hit them.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

so if I hit where I SEE you, I actually hit you.

This is not true for the default hit detection, and therefore for mine as well. The default operates by the client checking everyone around them for hits. Not by "sending" a hit directly to someone from the attacker. This results in you swinging and potentially missing someone, despite visibly seeing the opposite.

Originally Posted by Rufus

With serverside hit detection have the ability to hit their player directly, which includes when the player freezes and jumps around.

Hitting what you see (although this isn't accurate, the amount of time it takes you to upload the data to the server is still relevant) isn't being disputed. The fact is that the jumpy movement is still possible and still provides an advantage because it's unpredictable by the opponent, and it can be generated at will.

That is hardly the same. It is way easier to abuse your connection with clientside hit detection. In events such as CTF you can't really just "deal" with people abusing lag with a clientside hit detection, because not every lagger has choppy movements yet is placed at an advantage. With serverside hit detection laggers are evident because your opposition does not need to be walking towards your sword in order to take a hit. I don't see how the staff members can deal with abuse that responds differently to different people, nor should they really be expected to judge it.

I'm pretty sure you've been around for quite a while. If so, you know that these very things had to be dealt with in the past. Why is it suddenly so different now? Anyway, I'm not after opinions at this point anyway, so if you're trying to convince me that doing it clientside is a bad choice, you might as well save yourself the time.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Do you not think that the current hit detection was intended to be like that?

No, not really otherwise they would of scripted a HD geared towards default and this HD is far from it other than the fact of more fairer hits.

@Kat: Good to hear that somewhat of an attempt is currently being made.

[Kill]

Agreed.

[soulwazza]

Classic needs a vision. A vision of what the server should be. Should it continue using the current levels, should it revert back to the levels used in 2000 etc. At present there is no consensus as to what classic should be. Here in lies the problem. There is at present a myriad of projects all heading in different directions. This effort is important and of fundamental importance but needs to be redirected into constructive projects that will aid into a classic vision.

Classic needs to redefine itself. It needs to focus on its core competencies, that is, things it is (was) good at. This would serve as a basis as to the re-establishment of the classic community. The introduction of bowling was a move in the right direction. Yes, it proved entertainment for a few days. However, slowly, as more beneficial projects are introduced the offering to new players is enhanced (this is needed for playercount growth).

The manager of the server should be driving the change needed.

And yes although the HD might need reworking dont just say 'OMG THIS HD SUCKS LULZ YOUR ****' perhaps no one is listening to your claims because all your offering is criticism not a resolution. Well, what is wrong with the HD, list the problems ie.
1)
2)
3)
and perhaps the issues will be resolved - although unlikely.

This is like the 83409384 thread complaining about the same problems and issues. This should register with the development staff and it hasn't <PROBLEM HERE. So im not really expecting anyone to read this and act upon my viewpoint ! Peace <3

[maximus_asinus]

I've talked to Thor and WhiteDragon on HD, and I recieved very different answers on why they've decided to change the system from Serverside to Clientside. To me, serverside is the most secure because lag didn't play such a major role. The server decided what was considered a hit, not the client. For the most part if it looked like it should hit, it would count as a hit. Now if it looks like a hit, you're wrong because your faster connection hasn't been refreshed with the new client's information and coordinates; they have been two steps ahead the whole time.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by soulwazza

The manager of the server should be driving the change needed.

Everyone please laugh at this. You know you want to. ...and it's completely justified.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Anyways, why don't they just script a HD geared towards the default HD

If the system NPCs weren't the biggest collection of random additions all calling each other back and forth a few hundred times for each minor thing you could possibly want to do, you'd have this wish already. I've duplicated the default, with all the positives and negatives that come with it. This is, as I understand it, what the majority want, and with good reason. The only reason it isn't implemented yet is because I have no desire to spend the time it takes to sift through the ridiculous mess of system NPCs that have no organization whatsoever. It's not surprising that things don't get done.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

To me, serverside is the most secure

because lag didn't play such a major role

I wouldn't really consider lag "security", but I guess I can see how it might be viewed that way. If someone is intentionally making themselves lag to get an advantage, it can still be accomplished with serverside hit detection, although not in the same way.

Now if it looks like a hit, you're wrong because your faster connection hasn't been refreshed with the new client's information and coordinates; they have been two steps ahead the whole time.

This is essentially how it was before NPC servers existed. Did you feel the same about it then?

[DustyPorViva]

People like to feel that the game they are playing is responsive. Clientside HD provides just that -- when you see a player and you hit them, they are hurt. It responds(though this reflects the script itself).

Serverside HD is quite the opposite. Instead you must hit where the server knows the player is instead of where you see. That is counter-intuitive to what a game should be trying to accomplish. Responsiveness is very important to good controls and presentation.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

People like to feel that the game they are playing is responsive. Clientside HD provides just that -- when you see a player and you hit them, they are hurt. It responds(though this reflects the script itself).

We do not get this with the current clientside hit detection. Why is that?

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

I wouldn't really consider lag "security", but I guess I can see how it might be viewed that way. If someone is intentionally making themselves lag to get an advantage, it can still be accomplished with serverside hit detection, although not in the same way.

Woops, I was rewording a paragraph, two sentences became one and I forgot to proof read. That wasn't supposed to be in my post at all.

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

This is essentially how it was before NPC servers existed. Did you feel the same about it then?

The old system worked pretty much the opposite way, or atleast it did to me. They've created a system to cater to the laggiest player.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

We do not get this with the current clientside hit detection. Why is that?

Like I said, reflects the script itself. Good clientside HD accomplishes the feeling of responsiveness.

Thor apparently has the numbers needed to replicate the default HD, why he didn't use it is beyond me.

[Crimson2005]

Ok, the previous HD has now been added back to events. What does that tell you? The current HD caused major problems in events and it's now been removed from events. The current HD is not good enough, yet it still remains in general on the overworld? Why exactly? It's been deemed unfit and a pain in the arse for events but somehow remains on the overworld. I don't get it. It's not really good enough. Whatever though, carry on living in blissful ignorance, Thor and the rest. There is absolutely no convincing you what is good for the server as long as you can convince yourself, right?