Castle Quest Released

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

well im currently stuck and have no idea what to do so...until a faq logs on i suppose.

It doesn't really help anyone to just say "I'm stuck" without explaining the problem. With more information, not only could could someone (and not necessarily a staff member) provide a solution but it would be there to see should someone else encounter the same problem and see this.

I can say however that the solution was for you to simply fall down the top right side of the level with the cannons, in order to fall down into an inaccessible part of the level on the lower floor.

Originally Posted by smirt362

This ladder doesn't work.

That's odd, I've never received any other reports of them not working. I know it would be possible to become stuck should you lag out as there's a scripted warp involved, otherwise I can only really wait until someone experiences it again then attempt to debug it.

Originally Posted by smirt362

Also, having to get damaged by the boss to kill it is kinda stupid

Admittedly it's something unordinary for quest bosses, but then it's still possible to defeat the boss without dieing despite this, and even more so when helped by the slight advantage that can be gained in carrying a rock into the boss room beforehand. It is also why there are 2 moles rigged to drop HP.

Originally Posted by Luda

wtf is with the difference in tiles??

[Luda]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

These tiles don't match the other ones that take up majority of the level and I'm sure majority of the quest as well

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It doesn't really help anyone to just say "I'm stuck" without explaining the problem. With more information, not only could could someone (and not necessarily a staff member) provide a solution but it would be there to see should someone else encounter the same problem and see this.

I can say however that the solution was for you to simply fall down the top right side of the level with the cannons, in order to fall down into an inaccessible part of the level on the lower floor.

yup did it all yesterday.

boss fight was disappointing. i didnt even know what to do until gambit walked in and told me you had to slash him twice near a wall.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

i didnt even know what to do until gambit walked in and told me you had to slash him twice near a wall.

That's actually wrong.
Have to just slash him 3 times within a certain amount of time for him to smash you into a wall.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

That's actually wrong.
Have to just slash him 3 times within a certain amount of time for him to smash you into a wall.

excellent boss design when players have to be told what to do without anything remotely hinting at the proper way to go about it. the mechanic itself is pretty stupid and counter-intuitive. i just spammed while against the wall.

the baddy that throws rocks at you was more clever than this guy. based on this mini-boss i initially assumed you were supposed to collect bombs from the moles and throw them at him like you did previously, but that would make too much sense and actually show some decent design and progression.

: - )

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

excellent boss design when players have to be told what to do without anything remotely hinting at the proper way to go about it.

In the scene that occurs before the fight begins, the boss is shown to be slashed and hurt, which can suggest the need to slash it, and the baddy is shown to be slammed into the wall.
I suppose I could make one rock fall down at this point in order to hint at that part.

Originally Posted by Crono

based on this mini-boss i initially assumed you were supposed to collect bombs from the moles and throw them at him like you did previously, but that would make too much sense and actually show some decent design and progression.

If this was the case I'm sure there'd be complaints about the solution being over-done and predictable.
Nevertheless the solution to the boss does require the throwing of an object similarly to the miniboss, just using the tool that was obtained after defeating the miniboss, which seems like decent design and progression to me.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

In the scene that occurs before the fight begins, the boss is shown to be slashed and hurt, which can suggest the need to slash it, and the baddy is shown to be slammed into the wall.
I suppose I could make one rock fall down at this point in order to hint at that part.

Zeldaisque games always educate the player through first-hand experience. A lot of the time the mini-bosses serve as a warmup and hint at a possible mechanic you need to consider for the end boss. Throughout the dungeon you used bombs to knock the soldiers off the guns, so I'd think a smart player would have assumed bombs were to way to go at the end, only to find out the moles don't drop them. A player's first reaction is to try slashing, but once you see the troll blocks it you want to quickly move from fear of a counter-attack. Not only is that common behaviour in these types of games vs NPCs, but vs players aswell.

If this was the case I'm sure there'd be complaints about the solution being over-done and predictable.
Nevertheless the solution to the boss does require the throwing of an object similarly to the miniboss, just using the tool that was obtained after defeating the miniboss, which seems like decent design and progression to me.

The thing is, throwing the rock at the boss is incredibly simple. The boss moves so slowly that you're under no pressure to move or dodge anything. Once you figured out that you needed to spam on the boss against a wall, it became way too easy and a disappointing end to what seemed like a pretty decent Graal quest.

Keep in mind that my train of thought while doing these quests is from the perspective of the casual player. I can settle for trial and error, as that's how it usually ends up going on any Graal server, but I actually want Classic to come out with SOME level of quality. There's too many counter-intuitive designs all over the quest, which may work for the average player, but is not a good thing to have. A good example is the bit where you need to step off the platform and into the pit...RIGHT after you dodge cannon balls in an attempt NOT to fall in the pit. Getting hit on purpose by the boss...when the entire PvE experience was doing anything you can to dodge and not get hit. These are small points that are very easy to fix and go a long way.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

A good example is the bit where you need to step off the platform and into the pit...RIGHT after you dodge cannon balls in an attempt NOT to fall in the pit.

I'm not sure that this is a good example. Once you've pulled the chain across the ledge the focus is shifted to a previously locked opening door in the top right corner of the level, where the floor is marked out infront of where you can fall down.
If you have fell down the pit into the level below, or if it occurs naturally that you're now above that same level, you'll have seen a key on top of the inaccessible cliff at the top right of that level.
The same thing happens in LTTP.