Googi is right :)

[myth-simba]

I hate to admit it but the post he sent was correct. Gk pretty much does need a new server.

The gimmicks would be useless now if you want to reintroduce old and new players. If Gk has even a thread of hope for survival it needs to go to classic or allow classics full freedom so they can explore Gk instead of those dumb restrictions. Meanwhile a new gold server should be made.

Players do generally go for graphics than gameplay however there is still a wide proportion of people who like gameplay. My idea is move gk to classic, update it there with bigger staff team and if all goes well turn it back into gold. Gk has not a hope in hell reamining in classic and I am saying this on 'experience'.

Course anyone who disagrees you are welcome to show your idea in a reply.

[Ravenblade1979]

I am getting pretty bored and with only Bjorn and Stefan really working on stuff not much gets done. I don't think Bjorn will ever hire on anyone else.

This is just sad. I like the game and everything but waiting for releases and Bjorn to upload things and such is a pain. I hear that other games actually updates their servers once a week. I have a few friends that want me to go on. So i might just oblige them and say goodbye to graal.

[lordbosh]

A fresh started GK would be nice to be honest.

[jonnyrocks2]

Some games are bad for you're wallet.
So is Graal, but at least its a one time payment...until the end of the 12 months when you have pay again to get you're subscription again...Yea, we need to move to classic...I hate having to reupgrade to Subscription over and over.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by myth-simba

If Gk has even a thread of hope for survival it needs to go to classic or allow classics full freedom so they can explore Gk instead of those dumb restrictions. Meanwhile a new gold server should be made.

No not "meanwhile". If GK were to go classic at all, it would have to be after the new server is made and released.

[zell12]

lol...

Merge...

Anyway, like I said before, I agree.

[Stevsen]

I higly doubt that creating a new server would be any help. Not for more than a few months atleast, cause it would just end up like GK has now. I remember two years ago when i played GK, the server were full of players daily, but now the playercount barely goes over 30 in weekends, while Zodiac, on the other hand, has over 80 players, even though its practically the same system as GK.

My point is that its not the server, its the lack of possibilities. There's not many places to go level up, and before the new magic system it was almost impossible for spellcasters to proberly level up. Then there's the crafting system. It gets completely useless when you're over the n00b stage, except for when you have to make a house. Why not, like recipes, let people craft good weapons/armors and such, and maybe let the agility and mental factors decide what you can create? And last, but not least, quests. People get bored doing the same thing over and over, they need variety, and with active staff, new quests could be uploaded monthly, or even weekly.

Those are just my intepretion of it all.

Feel free to correct me.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stevsen

I remember two years ago when i played GK, the server were full of players daily, but now the playercount barely goes over 30 in weekends, while Zodiac, on the other hand, has over 80 players, even though its practically the same system as GK.

The systems of Zodiac and Kingdoms are worlds apart. Zodiac's is simple and is only made to support whatever the immediate additions are, while Kingdoms was made to support additions that there never will be.

My point is that its not the server, its the lack of possibilities.

Your point is wrong. There are a lot of possibilities, but the engine the server is built upon doesn't allow them to be consistently working.

There's not many places to go level up, and before the new magic system it was almost impossible for spellcasters to proberly level up. Then there's the crafting system. It gets completely useless when you're over the n00b stage, except for when you have to make a house. Why not, like recipes, let people craft good weapons/armors and such, and maybe let the agility and mental factors decide what you can create? And last, but not least, quests. People get bored doing the same thing over and over, they need variety, and with active staff, new quests could be uploaded monthly, or even weekly.

Updates aren't going to happen that often, and as a matter of fact, usually never happen at all. You've proven my point. Kingdoms really should support all of this, but it's not ever going to, because the server itself has always been in self-destruct mode from the very beginning, and some people seem to think that's not important.

[Ravenblade1979]

Stevsen you can make weapons and armor from recipes on gk. I have the plate mail of Balor recipe.

[lordbosh]

they arent good items though, most alchemy items are crap except for pmop, fhom

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stevsen

I higly doubt that creating a new server would be any help. Not for more than a few months atleast, cause it would just end up like GK has now.

Yeah, eventually it would end up like GK is, but if you did it right you would get a few years out of it (like we got out of GK).

Originally Posted by Stevsen

I remember two years ago when i played GK, the server were full of players daily, but now the playercount barely goes over 30 in weekends, while Zodiac, on the other hand, has over 80 players, even though its practically the same system as GK.

If Zodiac manages to maintain its popularity for four years without undergoing any major overhauls, I'll be very impressed.

Originally Posted by Stevsen

My point is that its not the server, its the lack of possibilities. There's not many places to go level up, and before the new magic system it was almost impossible for spellcasters to proberly level up.

Wrong. For an exp-based server, it's important that reaching the highest level be almost impossible. The ease with which the highest level can be reached on Zodiac is going to cause the server problems in the future.

Originally Posted by Stevsen

Then there's the crafting system. It gets completely useless when you're over the n00b stage, except for when you have to make a house. Why not, like recipes, let people craft good weapons/armors and such, and maybe let the agility and mental factors decide what you can create? And last, but not least, quests. People get bored doing the same thing over and over, they need variety, and with active staff, new quests could be uploaded monthly, or even weekly.

Constant updates can keep pretty much any server alive, but the developmental resources simply don't exist to create the kind of updates that would be needed in the amount needed. That's why the goal is to create a server that can sustain activity without needing frequent updates.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Googi

Wrong. For an exp-based server, it's important that reaching the highest level be almost impossible. The ease with which the highest level can be reached on Zodiac is going to cause the server problems in the future.

Actually, the issue's not going to be that everyone will be the highest level, but rather that the only thing to do right now at the highest level is pvp, and pvp isn't that exciting when you do it for 5-8 hours every single day. Sometimes a lot of fun can come through earning things as well, but there should always be things to do with what you've earned.

Originally Posted by Googi

Constant updates can keep pretty much any server alive, but the developmental resources simply don't exist to create the kind of updates that would be needed in the amount needed. That's why the goal is to create a server that can sustain activity without needing frequent updates.

Correct. A server that can sustain itself is one that stays around longer. However, as I've said before, Kingdoms has the problem of eating itself, and it's due to the engine having too many loose ends that are never going to be tied up.

If you want a good example, the server crashed once when someone tried to use create food to make a mana crystal. In theory, it should have worked, but the fact that the create food system depeneds solely upon the ratio of a player's level and how many food points the food being created has caused the server to go into an infinite loop of dividing by zero.

You could look at it funny and the server would crash, and there's something really sad about that.

[bgumeny]

Nothing against Zodiac as they seem to be doing quite well, but I find it to be quite boring. All there is to do is sit there and slash at monsters, no skill required. Once you reach a certain level you have to find a new cave with tougher monsters, and repeat the same things. There is no strategy involved, which makes all the hacking and slashing boring after a while. Top that off with the fact that you have to be like level 30 before a nation will even consider letting you in and the complete lack of an economy, and you get a very exclusive, boring server.

The staff seem to be working very hard and coming up with new updates, but they don't really add any substance to the server.

Kingdoms seems to be a little different in that its slightly more complex. While there still isn't much skill involved in fighting and leveling up, there are some monsters that you can outmaneuver and the economy played a huge role in the server, thus giving people who didn't like to just level and fight something to do.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Correct. A server that can sustain itself is one that stays around longer. However, as I've said before, Kingdoms has the problem of eating itself, and it's due to the engine having too many loose ends that are never going to be tied up.

Systemic problems ceased to really impact the average player a long time ago. Kingdoms was a good server and that's why it was able to last so long. It's just that it's impossible to make a server that lasts forever.

[ryu_no_bishie]

Originally Posted by Googi

Wrong. For an exp-based server, it's important that reaching the highest level be almost impossible. The ease with which the highest level can be reached on Zodiac is going to cause the server problems in the future.
.

your VERY VERY wrong here, level grinding is the opposite of fun, there is almost no point in doing it ever than to be level 99 and pk, and you need to understand, that if you dont give a **** and you like shallow gameplay like that, you can choose one of the hundreds of other MMORPGS that do exactly as you said and look better, are ballanced and professional looking and have good graphics.

Graal simply cannot compete on the same level as other MMORPGS, it NEEDS variation, INTERESTING CONTENT.

basicaly Graal kingdoms needs to have Well defigned (even if its broad) point to it, especialy if you have level up systems, players want FEEDBACK, they want the time and effort they spent in leveling to matter signifigantly, where zodiac and GK fail is not the time it takes to level, its the return value they get back from it, they get 0, its like working at a building job for hours and hours except you dont get paid and instead you PAY the employer, the thing your working to build and when youre done working on it, it turns out that the thing youve been building wont serve any point or purpose. you just get the non satisfaction of knowing you wasted money on doing something you didnt enjoy for no reason.


GK needs a point, a premisis, (a way(s) of playing) and once someone figures out what that is THEN you can begin working on GK NOT with some basic MMORPG formula, but based soley and entirely on making the game FUN while maintining the setting and point(s) of the game.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

I am getting pretty bored and with only Bjorn and Stefan really working on stuff not much gets done. I don't think Bjorn will ever hire on anyone else.

This is just sad. I like the game and everything but waiting for releases and Bjorn to upload things and such is a pain. I hear that other games actually updates their servers once a week. I have a few friends that want me to go on. So i might just oblige them and say goodbye to graal.

I think this post speaks volumes. Another strong proponent of GK and it's staff now says otherwise.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Googi

Systemic problems ceased to really impact the average player a long time ago.

The wisdom bug, Dustari Castle vanishing, the Kingdoms GUI bug, and the multiple malfunctionings of the quest system aren't factored into your equations then, I take it?

Originally Posted by Googi

Kingdoms was a good server and that's why it was able to last so long. It's just that it's impossible to make a server that lasts forever.

Yes, but consider that in the future when the server is retired to classic status or otherwise, it's still not going to be any easier to fix then than it is now.

[Stevsen]

I've been reading what you've all replied and... Yes you might think that the game does not lack possibilities, but fact is, it does. When i was a newbie i thought "Whoa this is cool i can do blah blah blah", then like a week after i was like "Was that all?", i could craft, but it had no use for at all anymore. I could go to dungeons, but there were only two in the whole game (not counting the haunted houses), then i could get maps, which were practically the same as dungeons, with a few more monsters that i had to kill on a deadline.

Those are just examples, but i'd say the game does lack possibilities. Quests, good craftable items, bosses (And not just bomy lords), and such things are all contributions to a fun game. This is just an example, but how fun would say, WoW, be if all you could do was go to two dungeons, craft completely useless items, and dig up maps. Not quite fun, eh?

[jonnyrocks2]

Correction...One major bloody Dungeon of pointlessness.

Actually, crafting isn't as pointless, but make said item, turn around, find a item you want to build off of it, whala. Nice little item for you're collection to later bless, or slap improvements upon (Diamonds permitting )

[Ravenblade1979]

Originally Posted by jonnyrocks2

Correction...One major bloody Dungeon of pointlessness.

Actually, crafting isn't as pointless, but make said item, turn around, find a item you want to build off of it, whala. Nice little item for you're collection to later bless, or slap improvements upon (Diamonds permitting )

Yeah well that pretty much only works for weapons...but ppl want DoF's and up to do that with. There is no way I would be caught dead improving a flaming sword. The crafting is good for noob stuff but to get the good stuff you need to alch it.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by ryu_no_bishie

your VERY VERY wrong here, level grinding is the opposite of fun

Yeah, it is. But it gets people to play.

Originally Posted by Draenin

The wisdom bug, Dustari Castle vanishing, the Kingdoms GUI bug, and the multiple malfunctionings of the quest system aren't factored into your equations then, I take it?

You aren't wrong, but even if those things had never happened, I doubt that GK's current playercount would be higher than it is.

Originally Posted by Draenin

Yes, but consider that in the future when the server is retired to classic status or otherwise, it's still not going to be any easier to fix then than it is now.

I guess, but that wouldn't be Stefan's responsibility. If they send it to classic, they might even be able to find someone willing to pay to be the manager.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Googi

You aren't wrong, but even if those things had never happened, I doubt that GK's current playercount would be higher than it is.

Maybe not, but you have also had times where you've known things would probably be better right now if certain things in the past had been done right, haven't you?

Originally Posted by Googi

I guess, but that wouldn't be Stefan's responsibility. If they send it to classic, they might even be able to find someone willing to pay to be the manager.

Regardless of who is the manager, it's still going to be in Stefan's hands, and since it has been like that, progress has really slowed greatly.

[Luigi203]

GK is long gone. Thats not even half the problem. Its that nothing is being done to fix it. Posting your good ideas in these sorts of threads is a waste of time and ultimately amounts to nothing. It takes really negligent Admins (and Managers..?) to let a server die due to lack of updates, whilst everything is being basically handed to them (Scripts, Levels, Gfx).

Maybe all of you will just stop playing GK, stop posting about it, and stop thinking about it.

[SayianOozaru]

HAHA. sam couldn't handel the truth. lol. but i basically said what mag said in his last lil paragraph thing...lol

that and that gks staff and everything sucks. lol. they've heard everyones complaining, and dont do anything about it. there gonna let it die, so you (players) should as well. theres no point in trying to save something, that the "staff" are killing. gk sucks now anyways lol. staff there are lazy

[Ravenblade1979]

Its not true that they don't care. Just that they are working on a ton of updates that haven't been released yet. We thought it would on halloween but we was wrong.

[jonnyrocks2]

Well everyone forgot, theres only three people that can upload said updates on GK.

When you throw logic in, they have to check the NPCs and such to make sure they work, then they can toss it out there, and pray like the old days of Plug and Pray..whoops..Play.

So honestly, while we can sit here and whine and moan over the updates, doing so isn't going to get the updates to move quicker, but will bog them down regarding moderating the topics so they don't drop into utter spamming or flaming.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Regardless of who is the manager, it's still going to be in Stefan's hands, and since it has been like that, progress has really slowed greatly.

I guess, but what you're talking about is GK going classic, which may not be a good idea to begin with, given that it might "push out" playerworlds like Maloria and Zodiac.

Originally Posted by SayianOozaru

they've heard everyones complaining, and dont do anything about it. there gonna let it die, so you (players) should as well. theres no point in trying to save something, that the "staff" are killing. gk sucks now anyways lol. staff there are lazy

It doesn't matter whether or not the staff are lazy/not lazy/want to save it/don't want to/etc. The staff can't do anything about it even if they tried.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Googi

I guess, but what you're talking about is GK going classic, which may not be a good idea to begin with, given that it might "push out" playerworlds like Maloria and Zodiac.

EVEN IF GK went classic, I don't see players leaving Zodiac to play it. They actually add real updates to thiers. GK going classic might only benefit the server by bringing in 20 or maybe 30 additional players daily.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Luigi203

EVEN IF GK went classic, I don't see players leaving Zodiac to play it. They actually add real updates to thiers. GK going classic might only benefit the server by bringing in 20 or maybe 30 additional players daily.

The long-term player-drawing power of updates is hugely overrated. People log on to play the server, not to play the updates.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Googi

The long-term player-drawing power of updates is hugely overrated. People log on to play the server, not to play the updates.

You're not considering those who PLAY the server and are limited by the current content (no new quests, etc).

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stephen

You're not considering those who PLAY the server and are limited by the current content (no new quests, etc).

See what I said in my thread about how you could double the amount of content on 2K2 and it would accomplish virtually nothing.

[gravator]

Originally Posted by Googi

See what I said in my thread about how you could double the amount of content on 2K2 and it would accomplish virtually nothing.

Very true that comment, i feel many of the current stuff is fine the way it is, just fix a few things up a bit to make it a more well rounded server.

It's not enough to have classes, just make them a little more unique somehow, it's a bit dull to see only three classes and every one of them similar aside from what they started as, it's pointless.


Also a use for some of the more useless skills that are floating around, such skills as jeweler, thatamurgy, or arrow ID (forgot the name)

Someone DID suggest trying to change the base of GK by removing CF foundation it was built on and making a fresh start with the server, isn't that within your scripting capabilities?

[Stevsen]

Originally Posted by gravator

Very true that comment, i feel many of the current stuff is fine the way it is, just fix a few things up a bit to make it a more well rounded server.

It's not enough to have classes, just make them a little more unique somehow, it's a bit dull to see only three classes and every one of them similar aside from what they started as, it's pointless.


Also a use for some of the more useless skills that are floating around, such skills as jeweler, thatamurgy, or arrow ID (forgot the name)

Someone DID suggest trying to change the base of GK by removing CF foundation it was built on and making a fresh start with the server, isn't that within your scripting capabilities?

You took the words right out of my mouth. Everything you've stated is pretty much true. I'd love for those useless things to be useful. Cause if you're a newb and saved up for some skill, you wont be happy to find that the skill you just payed 1,5k plat in a shop for is nothing short of useless.