true question - Page 4

Skrobo2 · #**121** 01-25-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I don't mind the bashing or the complaints, but do it via the support center where it is suppose to be done. I read all of it.
You cannot make everyone happy, it is impossible. The only way to even come close is to have no rules at all, and let people do/post what they want. Trust me, I have seen first hand the results of that, and want no part of it. I would rather have dead forums.

Yet you were just complaining about the bashing and complaints. The support center is useless as I stated in the thread you deleted. The reason to make complaints publicly on the forums is to appeal to more than one person. I could make a support ticket to Unixmad and him close it, or I could make a thread for the public to read and add their own thoughts to and he may stop and say, "Hmm, maybe we do have a problem here, look at all the people complaining!". Do you understand what I'm saying? And "community" doesn't only refer to the forum goers. You don't please your customers and you could lose your entire player base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

Several individuals here have received an argument provoking personal message from a certain not so friendly mod. Funny thing is, majority of us left initials or full name letting the user know where the neg rep came. I really don't care as much as some others do, but I just wanted to point this out as proof is readily available by the ones who have been attacked.

He looks to see who negative reps him, then harasses them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Are you really so gutless to leave your name in the reputation comment? Cool

Darlene159 · #**122** 01-25-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

Darlene, the problem is if they do it in the support center, then the individual being complained against has access to their own complaint. So the complaint goes silenced and unnoticed.
People are wanting an individual that is higher up over the mods, but below Stefan, Unix, Ibonic to be able to moderate actions done by moderators.

There is no such person, and there is no reason why this is even needed.

Andy0687 · #**123** 01-25-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I would rather have dead forums.

Too bad this isnt your buisness, if it was we wouldnt be having this conversation because the forums would already be dead.

Quote:

If it bothered people so much, why do I have no forum PM's in my PM box reporting it?

Because no one trusts you and believes you will do anything about it, its simple as that.

As for whats wrong with it? You guys are MODS AND ADMINS you are supposed to be held to a higher standard then us players, yes that is a form of harassment if we arent allowed to call our friends *****s how come a SUPER MOD is allowed to call us Gutless?

PrinceDark · #**124** 01-25-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

There is no such person, and there is no reason why this is even needed.

I stated the reason. If a mod is complained against and he receives his own support ticket, then the situation will go unnoticed. That is why a person to handle complaints against mods is needed.

Darlene159 · #**125** 01-25-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrobo2

Yet you were just complaining about the bashing and complaints. The support center is useless as I stated in the thread you deleted. The reason to make complaints publicly on the forums is to appeal to more than one person. I could make a support ticket to Unixmad and him close it, or I could make a thread for the public to read and add their own thoughts to and he may stop and say, "Hmm, maybe we do have a problem here, look at all the people complaining!". Do you understand what I'm saying? And "community" doesn't only refer to the forum goers. You don't please your customers and you could lose your entire player base.

He looks to see who negative reps him, then harasses them.

It does not belong on the forums, Unixmad does not want it on the forums, he wants it done via support center, how hard is that to understand? It is not my choice. Oh man, I am repeating myself again.

Oh, and look up what harrassment is

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

I stated the reason. If a mod is complained against and he receives his own support ticket, then the situation will go unnoticed. That is why a person to handle complaints against mods is needed.

Unixmad has an email address, and I think you can even make a support ticket to only him? I dont think it has to go to me.

Chris · #**126** 01-25-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerogue

Here's better yet a an even simpler idea:

1. Forum Manager.

Lower than Stefan and Unix but can manage the moderators and override their actions. Please you should consider that. It makes enough sense ya kno. And please for god sakes if you do. Don't recycle people who already have global/moderator powers. Find some new blood for christs' sake.

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

Darlene159 · #**127** 01-25-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

Exactly.....over and over and over again

Skrobo2 · #**128** 01-25-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

It does not belong on the forums, Unixmad does not want it on the forums, he wants it done via support center, how hard is that to understand? It is not my choice. Oh man, I am repeating myself again.

Oh, and look up what harrassment is

As stated many times, the support center is useless and customer support is almost non-existent on this game. We've tried making threads to bring that to the attention of higher ups. A forum is a place for open discussion and maybe you should show Unixmad what we have to say instead of deleting our threads when we try to say it.

In reply to you trying to justify Sam's corrupt actions, I have a question for you. Is it right for Sam to look to see who negative repped him, then pm them insulting them for it. It's immature and I expect you as the forum admin to deal with it and punish him in some way. Maybe he's not mature enough to be a super mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

I have nothing against Moonie and I have only received one infraction, which I had/have no complaint about. I surely don't have a problem with Ibo and I think he's one of the better global staff members. I'm not speaking out against any individual moderator, but at moderation as a whole. It's too tight and strict here and it's really screwing up the forum community. If we don't speak out, eventually we will have a dead forum community and people will be clueless about issues of interest that are discussed here. This is about saving the forums, not an individual moderator. Although I do have a problem with some of Sam's actions and have stated it in a previous post.

PrinceDark · #**129** 01-25-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

I really doubt Moonie is the reason for this new argument. More like 1 mod that picks fights with people in personal messages. Then imagine that mod becoming biased and deciding to take it out on individuals abusively by giving them unwarranted infractions and causing them to be banned.
That is the issue. Users being silenced along with their complaints in the support tickets.

Darlene159 · #**130** 01-25-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrobo2

As stated many times, the support center is useless and customer support is almost non-existent on this game. We've tried making threads to bring that to the attention of higher ups. A forum is a place for open discussion and maybe you should show Unixmad what we have to say instead of deleting our threads when we try to say it.

Unixmad can view deleted threads/posts.

Quote:

In reply to you trying to justify Sam's corrupt actions, I have a question for you. Is it right for Sam to look to see who negative repped him, then pm them insulting them for it. It's immature and I expect you as the forum admin to deal with it and punish him in some way. Maybe he's not mature enough to be a super mod.

I don't recall the people who recieved these PM's reporting this to me.

zell12 · #**131** 01-25-2007, 01:11 AM

I think this is getting childish now... :/

Personal Jesus · #**132** 01-25-2007, 01:11 AM

A forum is an arena for communication and sense-making.

As defined by Google.

Skyld · #**133** 01-25-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Stefan just reached 8000 posts. :P I also wanted to ask "what's up with the EVILDOOM" thing? lol Sorry, if this is spam but it's not like it's gonna take the whole conversation off topic for Stefan to respond.

Hahaha! That thing's still there?

That's from when Spark911 and myself were testing the forum usergroup system a while back.

Tyhm · #**134** 01-25-2007, 01:15 AM

I believe I had a thread about this...it's conveniently buried in Future Improvements somewhere. The Support Center should have very specific levels of complaint: general, supervisor, and Top-level. If you complain to Stefan that you lost your forum password, you should get in trouble and risk losing your access - that level should be reserved Only for emergencies (like how it's a $10,000 fine for abusing 911)...but the level should still exist. Similarly there should be an in-between level, for trusted admins to take care of corruption charges before Stefan has to stop development to step in...

Another thing - maybe the support center gets spammed with people trying to reach Stefan for matters other than corrupt admins?
Maybe the support center should be specific: "Only post to Stefan or Unixmad if it's an emergency or you're reporting corruption in an admin that only reports to them; for any other matters, forum PM them [link]." I mean, it took me months and months to eke out how to get a response from Stefan nowadays...partially because, busy as he is, it takes months and months to Get a response. :-P

Yet Another Thing - Forum Admin is a good idea. I'd even say Moonie should be promoted to it - and before those of you who dislike Moonie riot, hear me out - that way she'd be entitled to make decisions without Unixmad's permission, And responsible for her actions on the forums. If Sam goes around deleting your posts, Moonie would be responsible for reaching a resolution or liable for corruption in failing so to do.
But maybe that would just make More paperwork for Unixmad.

Skrobo2 · #**135** 01-25-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Unixmad can view deleted threads/posts.

Would he want to look at a thread you deemed wrong and deleted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I don't recall the people who recieved these PM's reporting this to me.

Because, it's pointless and you would have done nothing about it.

PrinceDark · #**136** 01-25-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Unixmad can view deleted threads/posts.

I don't recall the people who recieved these PM's reporting this to me.

They don't have faith you can handle this problem. They don't believe Unixmad or Stefan will handle the issue when they have more important game-related things to take care of.
We believe something like a Forum Manager, or what Tyhm pointed out as a possible better solution to dealing with these problems.

Infernix · #**137** 01-25-2007, 01:43 AM

I usually hear "Unixmad" brought up for a excuse for the moderators reactions. Personally I don't think the Mods would act any different if Unixmad didn't enforce these "Laws". If they did, wouldn't they address the problem that his community constantly brings up to him illegal or not.

Chris · #**138** 01-25-2007, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

I really doubt Moonie is the reason for this new argument. More like 1 mod that picks fights with people in personal messages. Then imagine that mod becoming biased and deciding to take it out on individuals abusively by giving them unwarranted infractions and causing them to be banned.
That is the issue. Users being silenced along with their complaints in the support tickets.

I have access to the infractions section here. I have yet to see an unwarranted infraction. I've seen a few that I didn't agree with but that is because there are 1-2 rules I deem unnecessary. Other than that it isn't happened, yet. I doubt it will, but then again I lack precognition.

Andy0687 · #**139** 01-25-2007, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I have access to the infractions section here. I have yet to see an unwarranted infraction. I've seen a few that I didn't agree with but that is because there are 1-2 rules I deem unnecessary. Other than that it isn't happened, yet. I doubt it will, but then again I lack precognition.

Could you look at my infraction that was a "Personal Attack on Someone" in regards to the malinko thread.

I think that was unwarranted because I didnt say anything that was a personal attack.

But im over it, its the only one ive ever gotten, so im not cryin still.

excaliber7388 · #**140** 01-25-2007, 02:25 AM

You can't make everyone happy.
But how about aiming for the majority?

Infernix · #**141** 01-25-2007, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I have access to the infractions section here. I have yet to see an unwarranted infraction. I've seen a few that I didn't agree with but that is because there are 1-2 rules I deem unnecessary. Other than that it isn't happened, yet. I doubt it will, but then again I lack precognition.

Problem is about that is you wouldn't know the true situation as it is of each and every case.

Dean · #**142** 01-25-2007, 02:45 AM

After reading through numberous posts I think the way Unixmad is blamed for all of this is what causes such stupid problems like "Anti-Unixmad". Unixmad is constantly being used as a scapegoat reason for problems on the forums to act as though some people are being forced by him to carry out his wishes. If you're going to do something, for god sake take responsibility for your own actions.

No wonder people turn Anti-Graal with attitudes like this.

Darlene159 · #**143** 01-25-2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Yet Another Thing - Forum Admin is a good idea. I'd even say Moonie should be promoted to it

I am already forum admin, but I still have to get most things approved by Unixmad. I can't just go changing things out of respect for his forums.

coreys · #**144** 01-25-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Unixmad can view deleted threads/posts.

But does he? Yeah, no, probably not. Probably too busy counting his money.

Infernix · #**145** 01-25-2007, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I am already forum admin, but I still have to get most things approved by Unixmad. I can't just go changing things out of respect for his forums.

Do you bother to ever address to him that things might need to be changed? If we cant speak to unixmad personally that you must be there as a representatives on the player. But you kinda just sit there as a mod..who mods because Unixmad says so...even though the true motive of a mod is suppose to be to moderate the forums for the player.

Devil · #**146** 01-25-2007, 03:28 AM

Darlene only forwards tickets to unixmad if you're "harrassing her" or if she wants to get you threatened, I have proof.

Tyhm · #**147** 01-25-2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I am already forum admin, but I still have to get most things approved by Unixmad. I can't just go changing things out of respect for his forums.

I disagree - while I believe you're as much the Forum Admin as anyone, if you were truly the Administrator of the Forum, it would be your domain, your fief to rule as you see fit. Since you can't, you aren't, and that's wrong. I've been there, I know.
The way it is, you have to enforce rules whether you agree with them or not, and not even you are allowed to grant exceptions to these rules. You should either be granted the power to act in Unixmad's absence or we should get someone who can.

Skrobo2 · #**148** 01-25-2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyhm

I disagree - while I believe you're as much the Forum Admin as anyone, if you were truly the Administrator of the Forum, it would be your domain, your fief to rule as you see fit. Since you can't, you aren't, and that's wrong. I've been there, I know.
The way it is, you have to enforce rules whether you agree with them or not, and not even you are allowed to grant exceptions to these rules. You should either be granted the power to act in Unixmad's absence or we should get someone who can.

I concur. Moonie's no more than a mod with a red bolded name as it stands.

killerogue · #**149** 01-25-2007, 03:42 AM

It's not like Moonie's a terrible mod it's more so like Infernix said she just kind of sits there and mods because unix says so and he should give her full reign over the forums then it would be more orderly and less confusion.

Darlene159 · #**150** 01-25-2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

Do you bother to ever address to him that things might need to be changed? If we cant speak to unixmad personally that you must be there as a representatives on the player. But you kinda just sit there as a mod..who mods because Unixmad says so...even though the true motive of a mod is suppose to be to moderate the forums for the player.

I have sent Unixmad complaints/threads/post, yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Darlene only forwards tickets to unixmad if you're "harrassing her" or if she wants to get you threatened, I have proof.

Uh, when people say they want something sent to Unixmad, I send him the link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyhm

I disagree - while I believe you're as much the Forum Admin as anyone, if you were truly the Administrator of the Forum, it would be your domain, your fief to rule as you see fit. Since you can't, you aren't, and that's wrong. I've been there, I know.
The way it is, you have to enforce rules whether you agree with them or not, and not even you are allowed to grant exceptions to these rules. You should either be granted the power to act in Unixmad's absence or we should get someone who can.

*shrugs* I work for Unixmad, as does everyone else. I guess Unixmad is the only true forum admin.

killerogue · #**151** 01-25-2007, 03:45 AM

Yet, he never addresses them so he should give you some power to do something. O_O

excaliber7388 · #**152** 01-25-2007, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I am already forum admin, but I still have to get most things approved by Unixmad. I can't just go changing things out of respect for his forums.

That's a vast exaggeration.

Darlene159 · #**153** 01-25-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

That's a vast exaggeration.

No sir, actually it is not. It is what he told me.

Infernix · #**154** 01-25-2007, 04:14 AM

I am ashamed to know that a game Ive played for so many years has has gone so low in quality in so many levels compared to where it was before.

Andy0687 · #**155** 01-25-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerogue

Yet, he never addresses them so he should give you some power to do something. O_O

Just no.

She has not proven that she could handle "Full control" of the forums based upon just working on what unixmad says.

Unixmad hardly uses the forums OR plays on graal client, it is his Buisness yes but look at it this way

A man who owns Man Resteraunts will appoint a "General Manager" to each one who is allowed to act in the best interest of the Resteraunt which they represent. They do not come down to talk to or change things the General Manager does unless things are going VERY wrong (money loss, or something like that).

The only people I could think fit this bill entirely would be Stefan and Ibonic, yet they are both more like Unixmad in that they are also not as involved as they could be. I think what graal needs is a positive "General Manager" (or Game Master if you will, someone besides Ibonic) who its their JOB to take care of everything.

Nemesis had that job, and as much as I hate the guy, he actually did what he was supposed to very well (right up until that very nasty end).

Same with Spark, but he was removed for Disagreeing (Dosent the General Manager report whats happening and try to help the Owner earn more profits?)

What now?

excaliber7388 · #**156** 01-25-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

No sir, actually it is not. It is what he told me.

You changed it before contacting him.
And you deleted the threads before it was against the rules!
Too Much Power

Darlene159 · #**157** 01-25-2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

You changed it before contacting him.
And you deleted the threads before it was against the rules!
Too Much Power

What in the world are you talking about? I don't change things before sending them to Unixmad. I have no clue what you are talking about at all. what on earth are you dredging up now?

PrinceDark · #**158** 01-25-2007, 04:31 AM

lmao. What the heck is he on about?

excaliber7388 · #**159** 01-25-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

What in the world are you talking about? I don't change things before sending them to Unixmad. I have no clue what you are talking about at all. what on earth are you dredging up now?

No discussions of the VAST consumption of alcohol.
Yet we weren't allowed to speak of our favorite alcoholic beverage.
Then, you delete the thread, and take 'vast' out of the rule. It was fast, there was no way you talked to Unix that quickly.
You can do whatever you want, and that's too much power.
If you didn't enjoy having too much power, you wouldn't mind if it was limited a bit.

Darlene159 · #**160** 01-25-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

No discussions of the VAST consumption of alcohol.
Yet we weren't allowed to speak of our favorite alcoholic beverage.
Then, you delete the thread, and take 'vast' out of the rule. It was fast, there was no way you talked to Unix that quickly.
You can do whatever you want, and that's too much power.
If you didn't enjoy having too much power, you wouldn't mind if it was limited a bit.

I said that I have to discuss most things with Unixmad beforehand. Minor things I sometimes do, then inform him of it.
If I could do whatever I wanted, I would do so. I cannot do whatever I want, however.
If Unixmad wants to limit me, more than I already am, I wouldn't mind at all. they are his forums. The little power I have means nothing to me. Honestly, you act like I control the internet.