Protected start base

[Admins]

Right now there is a lot of base laming - people camping at the enemy base and killing everyone who arives. You have around 5 seconds after warping in which you cannot be killed, but it's apparently not enough. It's especially bad for new people who get killed right away without a chance to defend themself or at least trying out some weapons.

Proposed change:
- protect people for one minute after entering the map
- the protection goes away if you leave your own base
- when you go back to your own base then you will not be protected, so you cannot use it for laming

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Right now there is a lot of base laming - people camping at the enemy base and killing everyone who arives. You have around 5 seconds after warping in which you cannot be killed, but it's apparently not enough. It's especially bad for new people who get killed right away without a chance to defend themself or at least trying out some weapons.

Proposed change:
- protect people for one minute after entering the map
- the protection goes away if you leave your own base
- when you go back to your own base then you will not be protected, so you cannot use it for laming

sounds good but isent 1 minute to long?
if i had 1 minute to kill like 3-5 people i would easly take them out.
and when you say leaving the base, is that down the stair of the base?

[Crono]

1 minute is far too long, maybe 10 seconds.

When we were noobs it wasn't any better.

[Minomato]

I think 10 second protection would be enough, and it should disable itself when the protected player attacks someone.

[Jesper]

Good idea, i like it, I think 10 seconds is good

[RevolutionJS]

20 Second for the rest its A good Idea .

[kia345]

Invincible until you attack/leave base.

[Minomato]

One solution might be a penalty for the other team's players. If they kill a "protected player" within 10 seconds of them spawning, then the killer recieves no EXP, money, or kills, and the opposing player does not recieve a death. I don't know if that would work or not, but I'm just putting an idea out there. Also, the 5 second invulnerability protection would sustain, and then the "No-rewards" would stay 5 seconds after that.

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by kia345

Invincible until you attack/leave base.

NO!

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Deas_Voice

NO!

Oh why?

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by kia345

Oh why?

because i dont like invisible people!

[kia345]

That'd be fine had I said invisible.

Fortunately, I said invincible, along with every other useful post in this thread.

When spawning, you don't take damage until you either attack, or leave the base,

[doyouskate]

I don't see why it needs to change now, we all have gone through it before. They can get over it.

[Xterminator]

Originally Posted by doyouskate

I don't see why it needs to change now, we all have gone through it before. They can get over it.

I agree..I mean we all went through this, you just gotta go in there and kill as many as you can.

[jurre24d]

Hmm,, Protected start base It should be difficult for people and just because its dangerous. Not for me. But i think 20 seconds its to much. Cuz now the non-lamers can lame with the lamers ( understand XP ) It should be good for a own base where only your own team can enter it. Like this


And you are save on that base. If you want out you got 10 sec for walk out and cannot be killed.

And ?! ?

[Admins]

My main concern are new players. May be for experienced players the protection time should be less than one minute.

[Rufus]

I like Pojo's (kia345) idea, I think that would be best suited to new players.

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by kia345

That'd be fine had I said invisible.

Fortunately, I said invincible, along with every other useful post in this thread.

When spawning, you don't take damage until you either attack, or leave the base,

oh sorry, my bad then.

[xAzerothx]

PoJo's idea was the best but, I think its fine how it is.

[Desear]

Originally Posted by kia345

Invincible until you attack/leave base.

No... then people would just sit at their base, and gain bounty, talk to people, and just abuse to it so they can't get killed. Terrible idea, and not to be harsh but you may understand better if you were an avid Zone Player not once in a blue moon. Also, this could easily be abused with people laying down proxies, while they are invincible, then as soon as they are done, they run off the base into, their bunker, into the Dropship warper, and wait... and then after a bit, simply warp back into the battlefield, and lay more down, and repeat, this could allow a player to gain a massive bounty, and not die.

I personally believe, that the bases are fine the way they are, and that this will also have a negative effect on the sale of Jet packs, as I personally bought one to fly away from Base laming, when it was occurring, and then land a fair distance away, get my weapons ready, and come back, around, and retaliate, which usually worked as they were off guard from the Rear, focusing mostly on the Frontward direction of the base.

[Ravenblade1979]

I think maybe 30-45 is good but here comes another problem. We ET's will be locking people like its a jailbreak. People will just box stairs etc just to keep people there until the protection time runs out so why not on top of this boxes aren't useable outside the spawn base bunker. that way its more fair...ah but then people will be jerks and swarm in in like packs of 5 or 10 and just surround a person.

So how about if the other team steps foot anywhere on the enemies spawn base then they are warped a bit away..you could do this on both spawn bases and their surrounding land to ensure that people have time to get away. Yes people are smart enough to camp just outside but at least it gives people a fighting chance.

[Admins]

Bounty increase could be disabled while being in the protected mode.

[Desear]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

...ah but then people will be jerks and swarm in in like packs of 5 or 10 and just surround a person.

So how about if the other team steps foot anywhere on the enemies spawn base then they are warped a bit away..you could do this on both spawn bases and their surrounding land to ensure that people have time to get away. Yes people are smart enough to camp just outside but at least it gives people a fighting chance.

Thats a bit too extreme, their is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed on the base? And also, If the enemy is waiting just outside their base, then its fine, its not an instant Death, and it gives them a chance to formulate an attack, and then if the Team can't beat the enemy, they die, thats Zone.

And also, I put the, "people will be jerks" in bold, at the top, because, the wording, makes me believe that your reasoning behind this is a bit basis as in, you are someone who is constantly lamed, and are killed.

Originally Posted by Stefan

Bounty increase could be disabled while being in the protected mode.

That would be greatly needed.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

We ET's will be locking people like its a jailbreak. People will just box stairs etc just to keep people there until the protection time runs out so why not on top of this boxes aren't useable outside the spawn base bunker. that way its more fair...ah but then people will be jerks and swarm in in like packs of 5 or 10 and just surround a person.

So how about if the other team steps foot anywhere on the enemies spawn base then they are warped a bit away..you could do this on both spawn bases and their surrounding land to ensure that people have time to get away. Yes people are smart enough to camp just outside but at least it gives people a fighting chance.

"Locking people out" is an excessive short term solution to an apparent long term issue; you could just amend it so that players can walk through the "protected" players. If levels have a high functionality for lamers, then it's more than likely that the levels need changing, not the players need locking out, and that would be down to whoever tiled the area.

[doyouskate]

Originally Posted by Desear

if the Team can't beat the enemy, they die, thats Zone.

Couldn't of said it any better. That's the whole point of Iricia/Zone in general.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Desear

good points

Invincible until they attack, leave the base. No bounty gain, because they are not technically "playing" until they've started attacking. Laying a proxy would count as attacking, as would setting boxes.

Originally Posted by doyouskate

Couldn't of said it any better. That's the whole point of Iricia/Zone in general.

Beating the team =/= laming. This would give the other players more of a chance to fight back, to make fights take more skill. You guys should love this, making it more worth playing.

[Elizabeth]

i dislike this idea. i enjoy laming enemy bases, its how i get my kills. no work involved. if youre complaining about "not being able to leave the base" then earn some money and buy a jetpack. its not that hard to get away from the enemy if you have a jetpack

[Programmer]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

i dislike this idea. i enjoy laming enemy bases, its how i get my kills. no work involved. if youre complaining about "not being able to leave the base" then earn some money and buy a jetpack. its not that hard to get away from the enemy if you have a jetpack

The point of the thread here was to enable it for new players. If they don't like the game and get lamed every time they try to leave a base, they're not going to buy anything.

I generally support this idea.

[blazeingonix]

I voted no bcz i dont like zone so i will vote no for everything

[pooper200000]

The objective of Iricia is to capture bases. With that in mind I think everyone seems to forget there are more than 5 bases. There are 7, Sweep's base and Storm's base.

Base laming is always big because that is where the players come from. If it has become such a drastic problem that it needs to be changed, the warpers can always be set to random or farthest from a player.
The secret passage ways could be utilized if players spawned there and in the ship factory in the top left hand corner of the map. The building in the top right of the map with the statues could also be used as a spawn area. A lot of the new tunnels are a complete waste of space anyway because of their severe lack of limitations to prevent them from being abused.

I really do not see base laming as a problem. If it is a such a huge annoyance or hinderance to new players, a tutorial world could always be introduced. It could teach the basics of fighting. Example: Q menu, finding a weapon, equiping and using weapons, and entering the map.

There could be a practice map with the objective of capturing one base for 20 seconds and there could be rolling barrels or a some form of threat to kill them. If they captured the base for 20 seconds dodging the barrels they would be warped to a final tutorial dropship which could teach the players how to go to the planet selection. After that they would know how to play. The tutorial world would only need to be gotten through once.

I'm not sure if that would really help to solve the problem of base laming, but it would help newer players so they would be prepared to deal with madness we call Iricia. I don't see any problems with a tutorial world because I already feel one is needed on Zone.

A big step in the direction toward fixing base laming could be to make the map better suited for escape. They could eventually add a secret passageway with multiple entrances and exits that only Storm Riders or only Sweep fleet could enter.
The new arrangement of the map has left Iricia more unbalanced than it may have been before which I think plays a huge part with this problem in particular.

I'm not going to say if I agree with these solutions but a few solutions that have been brought to the table before were:
Damage players health if they enter a set area around a base for extended periods of time.
Give players enormous amounts of experience for capturing bases so they don't base lame.
Add overpowered automated turrets.
Balance the map so base laming isn't strategical

The best solution from my perspective would be to just have players respawn randomly if it is really that large of a problem. But it really hasn't reached the point where it needs such drastic changes as the ones proposed above.

[Ravenblade1979]

I don't get lamed. i actually just jet out but new people can't desear and those are the people who will bring in new business.

yeah its fun but frankly iricia is quite boring.

here's a typical day on iricia.

*spawn*
*die*
"wtf"
*respawn to ur base*
*die*
"damn lamers"


seriously thats what it is now...spawn base killing...no one cares about b1-b5 as long as they can get their lame kills in.

[jkool666]

Its fine the way it is.

If a team is good enough to push you back to your respawn spot then good for them.

[Desear]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

So how about if the other team steps foot anywhere on the enemies spawn base then they are warped a bit away..you could do this on both spawn bases and their surrounding land to ensure that people have time to get away. Yes people are smart enough to camp just outside but at least it gives people a fighting chance.

Originally Posted by Desear

Thats a bit too extreme, their is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed on the base? And also, If the enemy is waiting just outside their base, then its fine, its not an instant Death, and it gives them a chance to formulate an attack, and then if the Team can't beat the enemy, they die, thats Zone.

Originally Posted by doyouskate

Couldn't of said it any better. That's the whole point of Iricia/Zone in general.

Originally Posted by kia345

Beating the team =/= laming.

Read more carefully as to what he quoted, and what that person (me), quoted as well. It had nothing to do with laming the base, it had to do with fighting people outside the base, emphasis on "fighting".

==================================================

Originally Posted by kia345

This would give the other players more of a chance to fight back, to make fights take more skill. You guys should love this, making it more worth playing.

I see this more of a easier way to lame for the other team, with that Proximine idea I told you.

==================================================

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

I don't get lamed. i actually just jet out but new people can't desear and those are the people who will bring in new business.

Key words, "I don't get lamed. I actually just jet out", this is most of the reason why Jetpack is/was purchased, I personally bought it for this exact reason, so this idea could result in a possible decline in Jetpack sales. And that another thing, "but the new people can't", why can't they? They won't buy jetpacks, but this constant laming, and dieing, push them too, just as the other "minor annoyances", like Limited Classes push them too buy P2P. And on the last note, of "new business", I can agree with you on that statement, but for the reasons I stated previously.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Desear

I see this more of a easier way to lame for the other team, with that Proximine idea I told you.

Originally Posted by kia345

Invincible until they attack, leave the base. No bounty gain, because they are not technically "playing" until they've started attacking. Laying a proxy would count as attacking, as would setting boxes

What proxies?

[Tigairius]

I agree with maybe 10 seconds of protection

[Desear]

Originally Posted by kia345

What proxies?

Originally Posted by Desear

Also, this could easily be abused with people laying down proxies, while they are invincible, then as soon as they are done, they run off the base into, their bunker, into the Dropship warper, and wait... and then after a bit, simply warp back into the battlefield, and lay more down, and repeat, this could allow a player to gain a massive bounty, and not die.

This, and you get a bounty for killing people, so that whole, "Not gaining a bounty while Idling" goes out the window.

[Crono]

The following sum up what I have in mind.

Originally Posted by Rufus

"Locking people out" is an excessive short term solution to an apparent long term issue; you could just amend it so that players can walk through the "protected" players. If levels have a high functionality for lamers, then it's more than likely that the levels need changing, not the players need locking out, and that would be down to whoever tiled the area.

Originally Posted by pooper200000

I really do not see base laming as a problem.

Zone has always been like this, the stronger team will push and pull through. If noobs are being "lamed" it's up to their teammates to save them. The thing about Zone is that most of the good fighters are all friends with eachother and over the years "we've" basically developed a system where we dont actually fight eachother and save our time and ammo for the noobies and people we don't know.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to have the players also spawn directly below their bases. Afterall, the entire area is their home base right?

[luffy620]

I have no clue why this is being debated. Base laming is the main reason iricia is soo dang popular.

If your team isn't smart enough to simply push back the laming party, then they deserve to be lamed, that is how zone is. No matter how hard you try to make the game more fair, Zone players will always find a way to lame somehow else, because its fun.

Zone is not a complicated game, and there is no reason to make it complicated. If I remember, it was designed to be a arcade styled shoot-em-up game, and thats basically what I see mindless laming as, a fun arcade styled shoot-em-up. It has no purpose except to get expeirence, and to gain a highscore, just like an arcade game. Stop trying to give new kids a chance to survive past the home base, if they will just be killed when they get outside of it.

[Admins]

We can probably make some testing to see what amount of time is good. I guess the best is to give the extended protection only to new players (exp < 4000).

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Programmer

The point of the thread here was to enable it for new players. If they don't like the game and get lamed every time they try to leave a base, they're not going to buy anything.

theyre not going to buy anything anyways because of the price increase.

plus theres other servers to play. its not like zones their ONLY choice