Log mass messages

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Some people respect the chain of command, as they should.

Guess who usually doesn't

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Frankie

regarding the discussion of logging private messages, I want to bring up another question. do you think it's right to log player chat? I know Era has a system where they can log what you say on player. should it be allowed? player chat isn't always public. sometimes you could be in a level alone with a friend and decide to talk in-game instead of through PM.

Logging level chat is quite common. Its easily visible for any GP sitting in a viewing level and considered to be no different than mass messaging. Prior to gmaps the GP's would just sit in the black and watch but that really isn't an option anymore for mapped levels. I'm quite sure you've done it yourself Frankie

[Cloven]

Staff should be allowed to log a player's chat when:

- when a player is on staff level (this includes events, jails, quests, etc.)

- when a player is on a gmap

- when a player has made a non-toguild (or server equivalent) message to more than 1 other person

If a staff member is logging chat at any times other than one of those listed above, the practice should be discontinued immediately (I personally would reprimand or terminate somebody for this). I don't see too many exceptions to this being the rule, and, any exceptions to the rule should be available only to PWA or server staff whom possess the rights necessary to hire and fire (for liability purposes).

[CharlieM]

Even if the stuff is logged, most people assume its already logged, because at one time era did log PM's if I remember correctly. If a person doesn't want to get in trouble for something bad all they are going to do is talk over vent, or instant messangers

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Cloven

Staff should be allowed to log a player's chat when:

- when a player is on staff level (this includes events, jails, quests, etc.)

- when a player is on a gmap

- when a player has made a non-toguild (or server equivalent) message to more than 1 other person

If a staff member is logging chat at any times other than one of those listed above, the practice should be discontinued immediately (I personally would reprimand or terminate somebody for this). I don't see too many exceptions to this being the rule, and, any exceptions to the rule should be available only to PWA or server staff whom possess the rights necessary to hire and fire (for liability purposes).

what makes player chat on a gmap any different than an inside level?

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Even if the stuff is logged, most people assume its already logged, because at one time era did log PM's if I remember correctly. If a person doesn't want to get in trouble for something bad all they are going to do is talk over vent, or instant messangers

Era never logged PM chat before because I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do so.

[CharlieM]

I thought I remembered kuji getting banned one time for using too many racist words in pm's

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Era never logged PM chat before because I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do so.

This is correct.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

I thought I remembered kuji getting banned one time for using too many racist words in pm's

That's not PM logging, that's part of the word filter. It used to say in RC stuff like "KuJi has used rude words while pming: word1, word2, word3". It still logs words players use, we just aren't so strict about it.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by Frankie

what makes player chat on a gmap any different than an inside level?


Era never logged PM chat before because I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do so.

A gmap is more "public" in my opinion and is likely (save for specific inside hangouts) to have a higher concentration of players. The decision was made largely as another way to deter the more extreme offenders from chat-spam/advertising and because trainer users like to show off in populated areas.

I'd like to stress that in any circumstance chat logging should only be done when reasonable suspicion deems it necessary to do so.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Cloven

A gmap is more "public" in my opinion and is likely (save for specific inside hangouts) to have a higher concentration of players. The decision was made largely as another way to deter the more extreme offenders from chat-spam/advertising and because trainer users like to show off in populated areas.

I'd like to stress that in any circumstance chat logging should only be done when reasonable suspicion deems it necessary to do so.

What are you talking about? Trainer users don't show off in populated areas unless they are planning on getting banned. usually trainer users come on at 3-4am when little to no staff are on and then use the trainer. While i feel chat logging is an invasion of privacy, i could really care less When i type something into the text box of graal and type enter, i am planning on someone reading it. Besides staff don't care who you're dating, or how you got drunk last night and did some things when your friends. Staff don't just read all the logged chat for personal pleasure... They look for a specific spot and look for information relevant to an issue.

Anyways, while i think mass message logging would be a good tool to have, i don't feel its a life or death thing. GP's have been without it and have done fine. Another reason i don't feel it's necessary is because it's not like it will report illegal messages. You're still going to have to wait for a player to report it. So i don't really see why it's needed. However, I am one who enjoys another way to solve problems, and if it was around, im sure i could easily find a way to use it to capture players breaking the rules.

[WhiteDragon]

Monitoring and censorship is a difficult topic, and there isn't really a clear answer to it.

The administration has to evaluate exactly what the risks are, and what the people think the risks are (which people are actually pretty good at.

Only by creating a balance between the two would create a enjoyable playing environment; that is, one where people aren't feeling monitoring and one where people are safe from abuse.


Personally, I believe that all PMs should be logged; however, they should not be accessible to local staff without intervention from global staff. And the global staff should only be able to allow access with there is a dispute between two players.

The process should go something like this:

1. Player 1 (P1) complains that Player 2 (P2) is harassing him through a form.
2. A Local tries to resolve dispute between the players first, checks all prior history of the two players, etc. Everything done should be marked on the form.
3. If the Local can not resolve the dispute, then they can choose to involve a Global into the process to gain access to the PMs.
4. The Global should evaluate the situation/form and if they think it is necessary, they can allow access to the PM logs between P1 and P2.
5. The Local uses the logs to wrap up any loose ends and closes the dispute.

This way:

• No one has access to the logs unless there is a dispute filed by a player.
• The Local does not have access to logs unless they try everything else and a Global grants them access.

Through encryption and other forms of cryptography, it can be made impossible for anyone to view the logs unless there is consent from all parties.


I believe there are situations which require hard proof, and mechanisms can be provided so only the people who need that proof have access to it.

Link approved by pooper200000

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by papajchris

What are you talking about? Trainer users don't show off in populated areas unless they are planning on getting banned. usually trainer users come on at 3-4am when little to no staff are on and then use the trainer.

Besides staff don't care who you're dating, or how you got drunk last night and did some things when your friends. Staff don't just read all the logged chat for personal pleasure... They look for a specific spot and look for information relevant to an issue.

I agree with some of what you said, but these two portions in particular are somewhat misinformed and rather generalized. I see trainer usage almost every time I log onto a classic server in a populated area, and staff members on at least two servers (which shall remain nameless for the time being) absolutely are and have been spying on players solely for the purpose of spying.

I certainly agree that it's not really a tool needed at the very least by all of the GP staff on a server, if at all in general.