Log mass messages

[Sinkler]

Logging Mass Messages would make life easier for many people. I agree, we need to log mass messages.

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

Logging Mass Messages would make life easier for many people. I agree, we need to log mass messages.

Im pretty sure the system was put in already.

This is not Private Message History, so this should be aloud:

Squirt Mercy (Away) (Wed Aug 12 16:32:09 2009):
Mass message:
Just a reminder.

Big brother is always watching ^.^

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Im pretty sure the system was put in already.

It hasn't been. I added something on Era that works sometimes.

[Tigairius]

I personally believe all PMs should be logged, not only mass messages. I know this is a major invasion of privacy, which is something I don't generally advocate, but in this special case. If not local staff, then tenured global staff should be able to view the history between people in order to help solve disputes of claimed harassment.

Graal is the only online game I can think of that doesn't log messages sent through the game, and it is a security risk as a result. If you want to speak privately, use e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, ICQ, etc. There are many ways to talk about private things that don't even need to be discussed on Graal, so use them.

Being able to view PMs can give us the following capabilities (and more):

1. Solve complaints about stolen passwords being spread around, we could search for the account name being discussed in PMs and find the person(s) sending out the password.
2. Handle cases of mass messages containing inappropriate things (pornography, passwords, illegal discussions), and have solid proof to back it up.
3. Find discussion of anti-graal (spreading out links to trainers, people admitting to the use of such, etc).
4. Find additional information on account scams, item scams, and allow us to make the communities a safer place with proper proof.
5. Solve problems with extreme cases of harassment.
6. Many more "special case" problems can also be solved.

I find myself commonly asking, "Do you have the PM history?", and "Do you have the RC history?" Someone should be able to look these things up to get solid evidence...

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I personally believe all PMs should be logged, not only mass messages. I know this is a major invasion of privacy, which is something I don't generally advocate, but in this special case. If not local staff, then tenured global staff should be able to view the history between people in order to help solve disputes of claimed harassment. Graal is the only online game I can think of that doesn't log messages sent through the game, and it is a security risk as a result.

Other games have professional and hired teams of staff to be trusted with these logs, Graal doesn't. Local staff should definitely not be given such rights whatsoever if such a system were to be implemented. As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

If you want to speak privately, use e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc. There are many ways to talk about private things that don't even need to be discussed on Graal, so use them.

If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"? There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Solve complaints about stolen passwords being spread around, we could search for the account name being discussed in PMs and find the person(s) sending out the password.

Stolen passwords are usually taken care of regardless. If I've stolen a password, I'm going to send it to someone over MSN if I don't want to be caught. If I want to boast that I've stolen the password (like many people do) then it's going to be obvious that it's from me anyway, private messages or not.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Find discussion of anti-graal (spreading out links to trainers, people admitting to the use of such, etc).

This can be done through the word filter.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Find additional information on account scams, item scams, and allow us to make the communities a safer place with proper proof.

Absolutely no 'real game' does this, they just provide a means of educating and warning their playerbase of such dangers which Graal does not.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Solve problems with extreme cases of harassment.

...
There's an ignore feature for that.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crono

As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.

As someone who actually moderates the game, I would have to say that harassment is an issue, whether it is or not for you is not the problem being presented. Perhaps some of the harassment is brought onto themselves but that doesn't we should turn a blind eye to the situation.

Originally Posted by Crono

If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"?

They would be called private messages because it's a way to privately message someone on the game and is not publicly seen, like mass messages. That does not mean they should be completely private from the administrators who run the game, and should not be taken so literally.

Originally Posted by Crono

There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

Exactly. We are not trying to moderate what you talk about in your life, just keep the trash off of Graal. People can chat on Graal no problem while still being moderated, providing that they are not talking about illegal things. I fail to see the problem.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Stolen passwords are usually taken care of regardless. If I've stolen a password, I'm going to send it to someone over MSN if I don't want to be caught. If I want to boast that I've stolen the password (like many people do) then it's going to be obvious that it's from me anyway, private messages or not.

It is a lot harder to go around asking everyone for their MSN than it is to just mass message it or PM it to people, because a lot of people are reluctant to disclose their MSN to other people upon informal request. Maybe it would be obvious to you, since you're the one boasting, but to us actually doing the job, it's not always so obvious, and obviousness is not proof, we need solid evidence.

Originally Posted by Rufus

This can be done through the word filter.

Not exactly, everyone can still just say "go to ww\w.we\b\site\.com just remove the \!" How do you propose such things are handled? Magical word filtering that automatically understands what the person is conveying? No, it requires human intelligence. A word filter can only help, but is not entirely sufficient.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Absolutely no 'real game' does this, they just provide a means of educating and warning their playerbase of such dangers which Graal does not.

Every single game I have played, which includes several high-end MMOs are able to sift through your private messages in order to see security-related problems.

Originally Posted by Rufus

...
There's an ignore feature for that.

Obviously there are special cases, and the ignore feature is not always completely sufficient. Some people have several accounts, and some people illegally change their PCIDs to log into new guest accounts and continue harassment after being ignored. Every single harassment case isn't just "black and white," there are always new and special ways people are finding to harass other people.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

As someone who actually moderates the game, I would have to say that harassment is an issue, whether it is or not for you is not the problem being presented. Perhaps some of the harassment is brought onto themselves but that doesn't we should turn a blind eye to the situation.

As someone that actually plays the game and actually sees what goes on, as opposed to just reading tickets of those that are brazen enough to complain after local staff refuse to deal with them, I say you're blowing things way out of proportion. Harassment isn't a major problem, hell, just log on a server and ask one of their GPs?

Originally Posted by Tigairius

That does not mean they should be completely private from the administrators who run the game, and should not be taken so literally.

Originally Posted by Code of Conduct

Should a player or players be suspected of illegal or abusive activity, GraalOnline reserves the right to use administration tools to monitor individuals' communications via chats and other private messages.

So unless someone is suspected of doing anything illegal, the chat logs shouldn't be applied to everyone but rather suspected individuals only. And no, I'm pretty sure it's not acceptable to deem every Graal user as a suspect.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Exactly. We are not trying to moderate what you talk about in your life, just keep the trash off of Graal. People can chat on Graal no problem while still being moderated, providing that they are not talking about illegal things. I fail to see the problem.

Players don't like it when everything they say is being logged, watched, or both. Then again as a moderator I wouldn't expect you to understand.

And p.s, sup

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crono

So unless someone is suspected of doing anything illegal, the chat logs shouldn't be applied to everyone but rather suspected individuals only. And no, I'm pretty sure it's not acceptable to deem every Graal user as a suspect.

That's not exactly what it necessarily means, it says GraalOnline can use tools to monitor the chat, meaning that it's already logged, and we, the GraalOnline staff, can use that tool to monitor what was said. Try to remember that monitor has a past-tense meaning as well.

[Dragonosteel]

I agree with globals having access to logs in game. Definitely NOT server staff, though.

It would just be a disaster! This is what would happen:

Staff make fun of people over RC based on logs -> Staff that leak RC to their friends leak RC to their friends -> Their friends harass the player.

Originally Posted by Bell

While screenshots and histories are ok as 'additional evidence.' They should never be used as the sole evidence. They are too often altered or submitted to look like the accused is doing something wrong.

UN GPs would like to have a word with you. I can think of at least ten occasions within the past year where I've seen someone get jailed over fake screenshots used as sole evidence against the player, even one of these cases happened a few days ago.

[fowlplay4]

Obviously Staff aren't and shouldn't purposely go through archives, ban offenders for mass messages you sent days ago. If they do, well then they have problems with their Staff and need to work that out amongst themselves.

If they do release Mass Message Logging, it should be enabled by request of Server Management for local staff, and accessible to Global Staff regardless of it being enabled on the server or not.

As for PMs, a method to determine the validity of a PM would be a great alternative to complete text logging.

[Crimson2005]

Sounds a bit Orwellian to me lol.

[Darlene159]

I dont feel like quoting everything, but I completely agree with what Tig has said in this thread.

[Crimson2005]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I dont feel like quoting everything, but I completely agree with what Tig has said in this thread.

Yea because it aligns with your totalitarian ideology. You don't even play anymore, I think you're a bit out of touch with the game and its players.

Also Tig, it wasn't so long ago you were promoting free speech and language and condemning unnecessary censorship but since you became PWA or whatever you've gone and abandoned all your principles to impress the higher-ups, gtfo.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

Yea because it aligns with your totalitarian ideology. You don't even play anymore, I think you're a bit out of touch with the game and its players.

Also Tig, it wasn't so long ago you were promoting free speech and language and condemning unnecessary censorship but since you became PWA or whatever you've gone and abandoned all your principles to impress the higher-ups, gtfo.

What you and Crono seem to be misunderstanding is that censorship and logging messages are two different things. I am not asking for messages to be censored, I am asking for it to be logged for security-related issues.